Depends on your discipline really. The big reason why Cobra is flat out better is the lack of downsides to dancing over berserking.

What circle are you? My barb is in her mid-20s with 20 disc, and I still rely heavily on Nightmare. I get my face rocked off any time I try to dance.

---

Rajao

Oh well hell, I am not even kinda qualified to help.

---

Rajao

>>I guess the downsides don't bother me....I can't retreat which I guess is the biggest one, but I never normally need to retreat. I think dancing has a worse side affect....ie get stunned and you can't get out of it.

What's your strength and stamina? If it's lower than mine then it'll lead me to believe that concentration factors into the power of dances, not just discipline. Interesting how it's different for each player. I'll present my scenario to provide a better understanding why Cobra works better for me.

My discipline is 55, intelligence 55, strength 40, stamina 40. I get better results out of Cobra (its to-hit function is better than Blood's for me).

I backtrain hiding, stalking, ME, MB, LE, short bow, and offhand in bristleback peccaries. I often need to dance Eagle and Panther to work on the ranged and stealths. If at any point I berserk Blood, I am prevented from training offhand or stealths. Dancing allows me to switch between Cobra, Eagle, and Panther (not much with Panther since it kills inner fire) so that I can get the boost I need without being locked in a berserk. When I train stalking in bristles, I engage and retreat so it doesn't work with Blood anyway.

At-level training I only use Badger and Dragon. There's no need for Cobra or Blood.

Also, once you're able to berserk out of a dance (don't bother with berserking out of Dragon), there's no need to be afraid if you get a stun while dancing.

Also also, my character has 70 reflex and critters teach at a wider range of skills at the upper level. What this means, is if I don't get one-shot open rolled, then I won't die. Super celps can stun me with an open roll and never land another hit afterwards unless it's another open roll (which has happened before).

---

Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

Orc Reivers
MB 237 ranks
I dance cobra and then switch to blood.
NOTE: this really wasn't a fair test because I swang quite a few more times after I berserked, but is pretty typical to the results I normally see. Not super drematic or anything but I do notice a difference.

---

>ass
You assess your combat situation...

You (solidly balanced) are facing a red bear orc reiver (1) at melee range.
A red bear orc reiver (1: nimbly balanced) is facing you at melee range.
>
A reiver just arrived!
>
* A red bear orc reiver sweeps low at you. You dodge.
[You're solidly balanced with opponent in better position.]
>ad
You are already at melee with a red bear orc reiver.
>dance cobra
* A red bear orc reiver slices a rusty steel battle-axe at you. You dodge.
[You're solidly balanced with opponent in good position.]
>
Your movements feel completely unhindered.

Muscles taut, you crouch forward as you focus on the unpredictable Cobra, coiled and ready to strike.
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
>
The orc reiver begins to advance on you!
The orc reiver is still a distance away from you and is closing steadily.
>
Out of the corner of your eye, you notice a sabre-toothed warcat trying to sneak south.
You notice a sabre-toothed warcat trying to edge quietly past you.
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver fends off the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're nimbly balanced and opponent has slight advantage.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
The orc reiver moves into a position to dodge.
>att
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver fends off the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're nimbly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
You notice the sabre-toothed warcat attempting to steathily advance upon you!
The sabre-toothed warcat is still a distance away from you and is closing steadily.
>att
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver fends off the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're incredibly balanced and in good position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
A red bear orc reiver looks at Codiax, strutting a bit. "Larder full... Maybe I let you live, you be nice pet."
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver turns aside the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're nimbly balanced and in good position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
The orc reiver closes to pole weapon range on you!
>att
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver slaps away the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're incredibly balanced and in very strong position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver turns aside the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
You notice a sabre-toothed warcat as it stealthily closes to pole weapon range on you.
You point at a sabre-toothed warcat, ruining its attempt to advance unnoticed.
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver turns aside the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're incredibly balanced and in superior position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver fends off the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're nimbly balanced and in strong position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
A sabre-toothed warcat stalks gracefully about the area.
>att
>
The orc reiver closes to melee range on you!
>
* A red bear orc reiver feints low at you. You dodge.
[You're nimbly balanced and in very strong position.]
>
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver repulses the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver deflects the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're incredibly balanced and in superior position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
The sabre-toothed warcat closes to melee range on you!
>
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver repulses the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
The orc reiver moves into a position to parry.
>
* A red bear orc reiver chops wide at you. You dodge.
[You're incredibly balanced and in very strong position.]
>att
...wait 1 seconds.
>att
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver deflects nearly all the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands a grazing blow to the reiver's chest.
[You're incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver knocks aside the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're nimbly balanced and in better position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
* A red bear orc reiver feints high at you. You evade.
[You're nimbly balanced and in good position.]
>
Vibrant orange flames seem to flicker in the sabre-toothed warcat's yellow eyes, capturing your attention with a mesmerising stare.
Small motes of light flicker for a moment around a sabre-toothed warcat, then fade.
>ass
You assess your combat situation...

You (nimbly balanced) are facing a red bear orc reiver (2) at melee range.
A sabre-toothed warcat (1: solidly balanced) is behind you at melee range.
A red bear orc reiver (1: nimbly balanced) is flanking you at melee range.
A red bear orc reiver (2: nimbly balanced) is facing you at melee range.

(You are also defending against a red bear orc reiver.)
>
* A red bear orc reiver sweeps low at you. You evade.
[You're nimbly balanced and have slight advantage.]
>dance stop
You slowly relax, letting the power of the dance fade from your core.
>
* A red bear orc reiver chops wide at you. You evade.
[You're nimbly balanced and in good position.]
>ber blood
You sense the rage within you well up and explode in a violent whirlwind of dangerous power. The world dissolves in blood-red shadow, and your heart pounds madly within your chest, igniting bone, sinew, and muscle with savage strength!
>att
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver counters some of the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands a good strike that temporarily knocks away the reiver's breath with a light blow to the chest.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in very strong position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
* A red bear orc reiver slices a rusty steel battle-axe at you. You dodge.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in strong position.]
>att
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver repulses nearly all the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands a grazing strike to the reiver's back.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
...wait 1 seconds.
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver repulses the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and have slight advantage.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
* A red bear orc reiver sweeps low at you. You dodge.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in good position.]
>
* A sabre-toothed warcat lashes out with large, velvet-padded claws extended at you. You evade.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in good position.]
>att
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver turns aside most of the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands a heavy strike that turns the quadricep to mush and crushes the femur in a mighty strike across the left leg.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in good position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
* A red bear orc reiver chops a rusty steel battle-axe at you. You evade.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced with no advantage.]
>att
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver deflects nearly all the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands a grazing strike to the reiver's right arm.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in good position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
Your rage burns harshly, quickening your step and reactions.
>
* A sabre-toothed warcat lashes out with large, velvet-padded claws extended at you. You evade.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver knocks aside nearly all the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands a good strike that thumps painfully off the side of the neck.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver slaps away most of the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands a light hit to the reiver's left arm.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in better position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
* A sabre-toothed warcat lashes out with large, velvet-padded claws extended at you. You dodge.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and overwhelming your opponent.]
>
The orc reiver moves into a position to dodge.
>att
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver fends off the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in superior position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
...wait 1 seconds.
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver turns aside the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
* A sabre-toothed warcat lashes out with large, velvet-padded claws extended at you. You dodge.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in excellent position.]
>att
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver deflects the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in better position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
Your rage burns harshly, quickening your step and reactions.
>att
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver deflects the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in superior position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver beats off the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and have slight advantage.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
* A red bear orc reiver slices a rusty steel battle-axe at you. You dodge.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
>
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver knocks aside the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in good position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
The sabre-toothed warcat stalks into the area.
>att
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver repulses the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver repulses the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in strong position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
Your rage burns harshly, quickening your step and reactions.
>
The orc reiver moves into a position to dodge.
>
* A red bear orc reiver feints high at you. You dodge.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in strong position.]
>att
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver repulses the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in superior position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver fends off the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>att
>
...wait 1 seconds.
>
* A red bear orc reiver feints high at you. You dodge.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and overwhelming your opponent.]
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver turns aside the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and in good position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
* A red bear orc reiver chops wide at you. You evade.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and have slight advantage.]
>att
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver beats off most of the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands a solid hit that glances the mace across the forehead, lightly stunning it.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
Your rage burns harshly, quickening your step and reactions.
>
The sabre-toothed warcat begins to advance on you!
The sabre-toothed warcat is still a distance away from you and is closing steadily.
>att
< You step backward and then bash at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver fends off most of the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands a heavy strike that turns the quadricep to mush and crushes the femur in a mighty strike across the left leg.
The orc reiver falls to the ground with a gutteral comment about your mother.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
* A red bear orc reiver chops wide at you. You evade.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and overwhelming your opponent.]
>att
< You bash a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver fends off some of the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands an extremely heavy hit that shatters the entire left leg into a gelatinous mass.
[You're shaky, incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]
>
The orc reiver climbs to its feet.
>att
...wait 1 seconds.
>att
< You sweep a mace at a red bear orc reiver. A red bear orc reiver deflects some of the mace with a rusty steel battle-axe. The mace lands a hard hit that rips the top layer of skin from the reiver's chest and exposes underlying muscle.
The orc reiver looks down with a faintly surprised expression before collapsing upon the ground.
[You're incredibly balanced]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]


Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html

From what I understood the further your physical stats are behind your discipline, the worse berserks will work for you. Agility/Strength and Stamina eventually can overcome or decrease the penalty to berserks imposed by discipline if they get far enough ahead of it. But I don't think anyone knows how far that is and if I remember correctly there is a point (26 discipline) when berserks begin to weaken regardless of physical stats.

Strength : 50
Stamina : 40
Agility : 50
Reflex : 60
Discipline : 45

Testing in baby Celpeze (which I really need to move out of at this point) - I get pretty good hits unbuffed, but the boosts from Blood and Cobra result in:

desc vash
Your every motion seems to leave you in a better position to strike, the Cobra guiding your thoughts.

Roundtime: 3 seconds.

wiel sword
With fluid and stealthy movements you draw a bastard sword from the nightsilk back harness concealed beneath your war plate.

swap sword
Your hands quickly move to grip your sword as a two-handed edged weapon.

draw
< You step backward and then slice at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze fails to evade. The sword lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that removes the celpeze's right arm cleanly at the elbow, stunning it.
[You're nimbly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]

slice
< You slice a bastard sword at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze fails to evade. The sword lands a cataclysmic strike (21/22) (Did the Greater Fist just erupt again?) that rips through muscle and organs, cutting the foe cleanly in half.
The asaren celpeze's flared crest wobbles, then collapses as the celpeze falls over and lies still.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

chop
You turn to face an asaren celpeze.
< You chop a bastard sword at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze attempts to evade. The sword lands a massive strike (11/22) that cleaves the right arm from the shoulder, lightly stunning it.
[You're nimbly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

draw
< You step backward and then slice at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze attempts to evade. The sword lands a massive strike (11/22) that amputates the left arm and a good deal of the shoulder in a crippling blow.
[You're winded, nimbly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]

slice
< You slice a bastard sword at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze fails to evade. The sword lands an apocalyptic strike (22/22) (So that's what it felt like when Grazhir shattered!) that explodes the heart and lungs with a bone-shattering blow to the chest.
The asaren celpeze thrashes about for a moment, then lies still.
[You're nimbly balanced]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

chop
* An asaren celpeze claws at you. You knock aside the talons with a bastard sword.
[You're nimbly balanced and in better position.]

You turn to face an asaren celpeze.
< You chop a bastard sword at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze attempts to dodge. The sword lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that explodes the heart and lungs with a bone-shattering blow to the chest.
The asaren celpeze thrashes about for a moment, then lies still.
[You're nimbly balanced]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]


So as you can see, at this point it doesn't particularly matter what boost I use for these guys. But for fun:


berserk blood
You sense the rage within you well up and explode in a violent whirlwind of dangerous power. The world dissolves in blood-red shadow, and your heart pounds madly within your chest, igniting bone, sinew, and muscle with savage strength!

draw
< You step backward and then slice at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze fails to evade. The sword lands a massive strike (11/22) that tears flesh and cartilage as the right leg is ripped clean below the knee (Better order that peg leg!).
[You're shaky, nimbly balanced and in better position.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]

* An asaren celpeze whips its tail at you. You turn aside the tail with a bastard sword.
[You're shaky, nimbly balanced and in good position.]

slice
< You slice a bastard sword at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze fails to evade. The sword lands a massive strike (11/22) that amputates the left arm and a good deal of the shoulder in a crippling blow, lightly stunning it.
[You're shaky, nimbly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

chop
* An asaren celpeze whips its tail at you. You turn aside the tail with a bastard sword.
[You're shaky, nimbly balanced and have slight advantage.]

< You chop a bastard sword at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze fails to dodge. The sword lands a massive strike (11/22) that cleaves the right arm from the shoulder.
The asaren celpeze slumps and goes limp. Its tail twitches once or twice, and the light fades from its baleful eyes.
[You're nimbly balanced]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

draw
You turn to face an asaren celpeze.
< You step backward and then slice at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze attempts to evade. The sword lands a massive strike (11/22) that amputates the left arm and a good deal of the shoulder in a crippling blow, lightly stunning it.
[You're winded, shaky, nimbly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]

slice
A celpeze just arrived!

The asaren celpeze begins to advance on you!
The asaren celpeze is still a distance away from you and is closing steadily.

* An asaren celpeze whips its tail at you. You evade.
[You're shaky, nimbly balanced and overwhelming your opponent.]

< You slice a bastard sword at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze fails to evade. The sword lands a massive strike (11/22) that rips the left leg from the hip socket, making a wet popping sound, lightly stunning it.
[You're shaky, nimbly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

chop
< You chop a bastard sword at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze fails to evade. The sword lands an apocalyptic strike (22/22) (So that's what it felt like when Grazhir shattered!) that explodes the heart and lungs with a bone-shattering blow to the chest.
The asaren celpeze slumps and goes limp. Its tail twitches once or twice, and the light fades from its baleful eyes.
[You're incredibly balanced]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

draw
* An asaren celpeze whips its tail at you. You turn aside the tail with a bastard sword.
[You're shaky, nimbly balanced and in strong position.]

You turn to face an asaren celpeze.
< You step backward and then slice at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze fails to dodge. The sword lands a demolishing hit (15/22) that cleaves the foe clean through from collarbone to hips.
The asaren celpeze slumps and goes limp. Its tail twitches once or twice, and the light fades from its baleful eyes.
[You're nimbly balanced]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]

slice
* An asaren celpeze whips its tail at you. You fend off the tail with a bastard sword.
[You're shaky, nimbly balanced and in strong position.]

< You slice a bastard sword at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze attempts to dodge. The sword lands a massive strike (11/22) that rips the left leg from the hip socket, making a wet popping sound.
[You're shaky, nimbly balanced and in good position.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

The asaren celpeze begins to advance on you!
The asaren celpeze is still a distance away from you and is closing steadily.

chop
< You chop a bastard sword at an asaren celpeze. An asaren celpeze attempts to evade. The sword lands an annihilating strike (20/22) (Urrem'tier would be proud!) that explodes the heart and lungs with a bone-shattering blow to the chest.
The asaren celpeze's chest heaves slowly and it emits a rasping hiss before finally lying still.
[You're incredibly balanced]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

These are getting way slow on the exp and can barely scratch me with open rolls so perhaps not the best test subjects. I'll be visiting other hunting grounds to see if any work for me though, and will probably repeat the test if I find one more suitable.

---

"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf

Short answer: It's situational, but the situation in which blood+stone is the better option literally never happens for me.

Long answer: At my current hunting level and in terms of pure boosting power Blood(+stone)(+nightmare) > cobra alone. However, I can't stop the berserk(s) to transition to my four ranged weapons and they generally suffer heavily as a result.

In PvP you usually live or die by ranged weapons, stealth, and perception - berserks do nothing for two and hinder the other significantly, so you're better off with Dragon, Panther or Eagle (Dragon seems to be the best booster for me in literally everything but stealth/perception at this point). Even so, I'd generally use blood+stone+nightmare over just cobra.

Blood+stone+nightmare WOULD be more useful than the rest in a case where you needed a melee, defense, and intimidation boost smaller than dragon but indefinitely maintainable. Hunters who don't train ranged and can't dance dragon effectively yet would fit this category.

---

"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf