Berserk / Meditation IF Cost Slotting 09/08/2016 10:56 AM CDT
One of the problems with the barbarian model is the way that secondary and tertiary berserks and meditations increase in IF cost depending on the number of abilities already in effect. While this works fine for startup, the maintenance becomes problematic.

Here's an example. Let's say you want to run three berserks: tornado, wildfire, and cyclone. You start them in that order. So tornado gets its normal cost, wildfire costs extra, and cyclone costs double-extra. Then tornado drops first so you start it again, but this time it costs double-extra because wildfire and cyclone are already in effect. Therefore, ALL active berserks effectively get the highest IF cost due to the cyclic "casting" when trying to maintain. (At least this is how it seems to work, if I'm wrong then please let me know).

The same is true for meditations, but berserks are a bigger concern due to their shorter durations and more frequent invocations.

So I propose the following: when invoked, berserks and meditations fill a sequence slot with the appropriate IF cost multiplier. When they expire, the slot is opened and the next berserk or meditation launched will take the lowest open slot. So in the example above, when tornado drops, slot 1 is opened and the next berserk cast (tornado or otherwise) will take that slot with the lowest IF cost. When wildfire drops slot 2 opens and so on. The result is that you always have one berserk costing the base, one costing extra, one costing double-extra, and so on.

Just a suggestion.
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Re: Berserk / Meditation IF Cost Slotting 09/08/2016 11:03 AM CDT


Or Barbs could just not be penalized for using their abilities.
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Re: Berserk / Meditation IF Cost Slotting 09/08/2016 11:48 AM CDT
Okay, I've done some testing and I don't think what you are seeing is actually what's going on. Could be wrong though.

Here is my test. I have Titan Mastery which allows me to run the four berserks I currently have and gain IF over time. Without Titan you would be losing IF more with each berserk due to the combined small pulsing cost of each. Titan allows me to see exactly what the start up cost is for each berserk. I ran a berserk, meditate power, next berserk, meditate power, etc. Here are the results.

First Test:
Full - 41
**************************************
Avalanche - Start up cost 3
***********************************
Famine - Start up cost 2
*********************************
Tornado - Start up cost 3
******************************
Flashflood - Start up cost 6
************************

Second Test:
Full - 41
**************************************
Flashflood - Start up cost 6
********************************
Tornado - Start up cost 3
*****************************
Famine - Start up cost 3
**************************
Avalanche - Start up cost 4
**********************

Third Test:
Full - 41
**************************************
Tornado - Start up cost 4
**********************************
Avalanche - Start up cost 2
********************************
Flashflood - Start up cost 6
**************************
Famine - Start up cost 3
***********************

As you can see there is minor fluctuation in start up costs for Intro/Basic difficulty berserks (Avalanche, Famine, Tornado) but the Advanced difficulty berserk, Flashflood, was always a start up cost of 6. I think Kodius likes to use random costs within a set parameter for all our start up costs no matter the ability though. If you are using up IF from the pulsing costs the start up cost may look worse than it actually is, but I can definitely say we aren't penalized based on the number or order of berserks running.

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
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Re: Berserk / Meditation IF Cost Slotting 09/08/2016 12:08 PM CDT
Thanks for the test results. It's very possible my understanding is wrong, which would make the proposal moot.

I've found it very difficult to test this to be sure - it's possible that IF regen pulses are throwing off the tests. It's also possible that having Titan mastery (which I don't have) - combined with your higher IF skill - is making the differences so small that they're not identifiable. In which case the problem only really exists for a subset of barbs.

Can I make a test suggestion/request? It might be easier to test with meditations as their IF costs are greater, so differences will be more discernable.
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Re: Berserk / Meditation IF Cost Slotting 09/08/2016 02:41 PM CDT
Ran it on meditations. I have Yogi Mastery so my start ups are more reduced.

Test 1:
Full - 41
**************************************
Contemplation (Advanced) - Start up cost 2
************************************
Tenacity (Basic) - Start up cost 2
**********************************
Serenity (Advanced) - Start up cost 4
******************************

Test 2:
Full - 41
**************************************
Serenity (Advanced) - Start up cost 4
*********************************
Contemplation (Advanced) - Start up cost 2
*******************************
Tenacity (Basic) - Start up cost 2
*****************************

Test 3:
Full - 41
**************************************
Tenacity (Basic) - Start up cost 4
**********************************
Serenity (Advanced) - Start up cost 3
*******************************
Contemplation (Advanced) - Start up cost 2
*****************************

Again you'll see some random numbers for start up costs but Serenity, although Advanced like Contemplation, has always had a higher start up cost for me. I think what you are experiencing is the combination of random start up costs within a min/max parameter (higher without Masteries I'm sure) and the erosion of IF from Berserks and Forms that may be running at the same time skewing what you think you are seeing.

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
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Re: Berserk / Meditation IF Cost Slotting 09/08/2016 02:53 PM CDT
Thank you sir
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