I really really wish at least one berserk had a strength boost. Wildfire would be a great candidate in my opinion.
GREIFENTHAL
DR-KODIUS
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/28/2013 09:51 PM CST
We generally avoid having multiple abilities boosting the same stat within a Guild because global caps prevent them from stacking. I'd rather give you other abilities that are potent in their own right, than duplicating functionality.
I'm torn on the issue. While I can see how a Berserk really SHOULD give a strength bonus, that bonus is more accessible when found in a Form. Hmm...
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
I'm torn on the issue. While I can see how a Berserk really SHOULD give a strength bonus, that bonus is more accessible when found in a Form. Hmm...
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/28/2013 10:04 PM CST
What about making a berserk that imparts an RT reduction?
GREIFENTHAL
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/28/2013 10:25 PM CST
A berserk that boost strength on top of bear BUT penalizes other stats, such as reflex, might work? Say wildfire boosts agility and damage and strength, but penalizes reflex as a trade-off.(say, because the berserker is so focused on doing damage he or she doesn't pay as much attention to incoming attacks). That would still leave net stats gained within caps.
REWYN
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/28/2013 10:26 PM CST
Hrm..I feel the berserks in play kind of do a good job, but maybe a meta spell like effect on bear which kicks in if your also berserking (Raging Bear Stance) that periodically can apply a secondary strength modifier (?).
DR-KODIUS
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/28/2013 10:36 PM CST
Well, the rules generally try to get us to make all buffs capped buffs. No more 50% here and 50% there. Bear is a capped buff, and so would not stack with another strength buff.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
BUUWL
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/29/2013 10:05 AM CST
If Bear is a capped strength buff, I see no reason we need a strength Zerc.
- Buuwl
- Buuwl
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/29/2013 03:27 PM CST
>>What about making a berserk that imparts an RT reduction?
This might be a nice perk to add to Tsunami. For being an expert level ability and being as expensive as it is, it doesn't visibly affect "dps." I suppose it would be difficult to measure its effect since you can't tell when you might have missed without it, but I still feel it's underwhelming.
This might be a nice perk to add to Tsunami. For being an expert level ability and being as expensive as it is, it doesn't visibly affect "dps." I suppose it would be difficult to measure its effect since you can't tell when you might have missed without it, but I still feel it's underwhelming.
GREIFENTHAL
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/29/2013 05:17 PM CST
>If Bear is a capped strength buff, I see no reason we need a strength Zerc.
I think that it was said skill boosts effect first then duration, but still I imagine there is a fair amount of augmentation required to cap the strength boost from bear. So a berserk that uses more inner fire but scales the strength boost to the cap faster would not be redundant.
I think that it was said skill boosts effect first then duration, but still I imagine there is a fair amount of augmentation required to cap the strength boost from bear. So a berserk that uses more inner fire but scales the strength boost to the cap faster would not be redundant.
GREIFENTHAL
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/29/2013 05:24 PM CST
Eh, I guess I didnt think about what happens when you reach the cap with both. Never mind, back to the tradeoffs. The RT reduction would be pretty cool, too.
RAIST
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/29/2013 07:52 PM CST
Kodius indicated previously that as skill increases first power goes up, then it allocates to duration.
I can probably locate the post if anyone cares.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
I can probably locate the post if anyone cares.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 07:33 AM CST
>This might be a nice perk to add to Tsunami. For being an expert level ability and being as expensive as it is, it doesn't visibly affect "dps." I suppose it would be difficult to measure its effect since you can't tell when you might have missed without it, but I still feel it's underwhelming.
Ah nuts, I just picked it up lastnight.
Out of curiosity, is there supposed to be an appraise change?
Ah nuts, I just picked it up lastnight.
Out of curiosity, is there supposed to be an appraise change?
REWYN
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 10:35 AM CST
Yes, but keep in mind the following.
The buffs to weapon stats are scaled against weapon template caps. If your using a forged weapon already near caps, you wont see much of an increase. Secondly is that the ability (from my notes) is an expert level, so you might not see much bang for the buck depending on your skill.
Try it with a store bought weapon and see what the stats change is like. RUE is set up similarly and I notice a nice increase with 'store' weapons, a mild increase with normal forged metals and a very small increase with special metals (this is with about 300's magic skills).
I would imagine with similar inner fire and augment skill you would see increases in your appraisals. Can you post a before/after?
The buffs to weapon stats are scaled against weapon template caps. If your using a forged weapon already near caps, you wont see much of an increase. Secondly is that the ability (from my notes) is an expert level, so you might not see much bang for the buck depending on your skill.
Try it with a store bought weapon and see what the stats change is like. RUE is set up similarly and I notice a nice increase with 'store' weapons, a mild increase with normal forged metals and a very small increase with special metals (this is with about 300's magic skills).
I would imagine with similar inner fire and augment skill you would see increases in your appraisals. Can you post a before/after?
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 11:17 AM CST
>>Out of curiosity, is there supposed to be an appraise change?
I've noticed at least one level of visible difference even with capped special-metal weapons.
I've noticed at least one level of visible difference even with capped special-metal weapons.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 11:18 AM CST
Also, keep in mind you can unlearn an ability at any time.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 11:19 AM CST
if that's true, that makes that ability pretty much useless to 80% of the game.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 01:31 PM CST
I don't see an appraisal difference when using a kertig broadsword (stays at decently/soundly). I'm not sure if it's capped or not, but I wager it is. For whatever it's worth, the makers mark on it is "C.C."
I only have 123 ranks of IF, 109 of Aug (if that's the skill being checked).
When using an MCS imperial warhmamer, it goes from inadequately/reasonably to fairly/soundly.
Pretty taxing berserk though! Maybe I should drop it in the mean time as I'm never going to be able to maintain it with anything else up!
As an aside, I just want to say my barbarian is my new favorite character to play.
I only have 123 ranks of IF, 109 of Aug (if that's the skill being checked).
When using an MCS imperial warhmamer, it goes from inadequately/reasonably to fairly/soundly.
Pretty taxing berserk though! Maybe I should drop it in the mean time as I'm never going to be able to maintain it with anything else up!
As an aside, I just want to say my barbarian is my new favorite character to play.
REWYN
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 02:13 PM CST
>>if that's true, that makes that ability pretty much useless to 80% of the game.
Yep, welcome to RUE and special weapons. Its really only been drool worthy if you used store weapons. Has never done much with player made stuff. Although it should be worth noting that I believe balance/suitability are more granular than our appraisals, so because something does not go up a category does not mean there was no some increase, but it can make it feel underwhelming as a player when something only moves one tier or nothing at all.
I expect as your Augmentation increases you should see more of an effect(?).
I'm curious to see if there is a math difference between the abilities. Anyone with mid 300 augment want to compare the relative potency of RUE/Tsunami? My expectation is there are about the same but barbs might get more potency up front (per the general design philosophy with your powers).
Yep, welcome to RUE and special weapons. Its really only been drool worthy if you used store weapons. Has never done much with player made stuff. Although it should be worth noting that I believe balance/suitability are more granular than our appraisals, so because something does not go up a category does not mean there was no some increase, but it can make it feel underwhelming as a player when something only moves one tier or nothing at all.
I expect as your Augmentation increases you should see more of an effect(?).
I'm curious to see if there is a math difference between the abilities. Anyone with mid 300 augment want to compare the relative potency of RUE/Tsunami? My expectation is there are about the same but barbs might get more potency up front (per the general design philosophy with your powers).
PENDUS
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 06:36 PM CST
I don't use and probably wouldn't ever use Tsunami. The main reason is even with a mirror axe and 13/13 and 12/13 on balance/suitability, my tyrium sterak axe trounces it in performance. The actual damage stats are just so far and above more worth the investment than anything. I'm basically using an auction level item to learn parry with and that's about all. :/
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
REWYN
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 06:44 PM CST
I tend to agree with Pendus, and I think the issue is not with the potency of the power but with how it gives out it bonus or maybe what it bonuses.
I find it hard to think anyone is going to spend a spell/supernatural slot on a power they know they will eventually out grow or will have lessened effects as they go up the gear scale (which happens pretty rapidly. My new bard was 4 days old when someone offered to make him steel weapons).
I find it hard to think anyone is going to spend a spell/supernatural slot on a power they know they will eventually out grow or will have lessened effects as they go up the gear scale (which happens pretty rapidly. My new bard was 4 days old when someone offered to make him steel weapons).
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 07:49 PM CST
Beat this drum a couple times before, but I do think Tsunami could use some help. Reduced chance to critical miss might be decent once boss mobs are active, but by raising to-hit Dragon functions in a similar and more effective manner for much less IF expenditure.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Strength and Berserks
01/30/2013 09:23 PM CST
Yes, Tsunami needs some work. But it doesn't "cap" as far as I know. It should give a bonus to anything right now.
A sterak axe will generally outdamage most mirror weapons. The mirror weapons will generally out-parry normal weapons (from the balance boost). They'll also generate more OF (from the balance), even if the power isn't enough to overcome the raw P/S/I difference.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
A sterak axe will generally outdamage most mirror weapons. The mirror weapons will generally out-parry normal weapons (from the balance boost). They'll also generate more OF (from the balance), even if the power isn't enough to overcome the raw P/S/I difference.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes