It occurred to me that perhaps battle spells (including targeted spells) should have much lower maximum prep values than regular spells. Maybe not as low as cyclics, but if these spells are meant to be fired off quickly and frequently then they sort of need to not require spending the time to round up 100ish streams to achieve maximum results. And even casting a couple of them can be really attunement intensive, which doesn't bode well for experience gain when you have to challenge yourself (cast high) to learn.
Just a semi-random thought.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
LAMBL
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Battle Spell Mana Ranges
08/02/2012 12:07 PM CDT
>>but if these spells are meant to be fired off quickly and frequently
I'm not entirely certain that they are meant to be fired off quickly and frequently.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I'm not entirely certain that they are meant to be fired off quickly and frequently.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
LAMBL
Re: Battle Spell Mana Ranges
08/02/2012 04:22 PM CDT
At the very least, they're meant to be fired off quickly. That's why they have shorter prep times, but it doesn't do much good if you still have to spend just as much time gathering all the energy together. And the low duration suggests they're supposed to be cast more frequently than regular spells, if nothing else.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Battle Spell Mana Ranges
08/02/2012 04:34 PM CDT
>>At the very least, they're meant to be fired off quickly.
I'm not entirely sure. They're definitely capable of being fired off quickly, but I don't know if it's meant to be a wise and/or sustainable option.
It's similar to how I think combat 3.0 is set up: technically, you can fire off a ton of strikes really fast, but doing so will have a notable impact on your stamina, balance, etc.
Nothing will stop someone from doing prep X/target/cast and running out of mana in a short amount of time. Similarly, nothing will stop someone from doing jab/jab/jab/jab/jab/etc and running out of stamina in a short amount of time.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I'm not entirely sure. They're definitely capable of being fired off quickly, but I don't know if it's meant to be a wise and/or sustainable option.
It's similar to how I think combat 3.0 is set up: technically, you can fire off a ton of strikes really fast, but doing so will have a notable impact on your stamina, balance, etc.
Nothing will stop someone from doing prep X/target/cast and running out of mana in a short amount of time. Similarly, nothing will stop someone from doing jab/jab/jab/jab/jab/etc and running out of stamina in a short amount of time.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
LAMBL
Re: Battle Spell Mana Ranges
08/02/2012 04:46 PM CDT
I dunno, the whole point of that particular spell type seems to be speed. Here's what was said about it when the concept was first introduced, which still holds as far as I know. Right now they have the same costs as normal spells, just with a shorter prep time. That doesn't seem to quite line up with the intent.
"Battle spells are designed for casting in the middle of combat. They prepare rapidly, have costs that do not assume the use of magical tools or support, and relatively short durations (if they have any duration at all). Note that these are not necessarily offensive spells, though many of them will be. An "emergency" beneficial spell or one designed along the premise of being able to activate it now qualities."
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
"Battle spells are designed for casting in the middle of combat. They prepare rapidly, have costs that do not assume the use of magical tools or support, and relatively short durations (if they have any duration at all). Note that these are not necessarily offensive spells, though many of them will be. An "emergency" beneficial spell or one designed along the premise of being able to activate it now qualities."
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Battle Spell Mana Ranges
08/02/2012 05:22 PM CDT
>>I dunno, the whole point of that particular spell type seems to be speed.
I agree that they're predisposed to speed, but I don't know if that means they're predisposed to rapid/repeated use over an extended period of time.
>>They prepare rapidly
They do this
>>have costs that do not assume the use of magical tools or support
I believe they also do this. Spells that assume the use of tools have really high preps, right? Like 20+ minimum preps. I think TM spells start in the 5-6 range, and get higher depending on how much they do. For example, TM spells in the Necromancer spellbook...
Acid Splash, 6 minimum: hurts one target
Blood Burst, 14 minimum: hurts one target and does splash damage
Universal Solvent, 15 minimum per pulse: AoE attack
Siphon Vitality, 17 minimum: hurts one target and restores vitality
Vivisection, 28 minimum: magical snipe
Now, if I really wanted, I could rattle off a few VIVs, but it would wear me out, mana-wise. At the same time, I bet if I did a series of quick sucker punches in combat I'd also wear out quickly, stamina-wise. Or I could pace myself better with ACS.
As far as I understand it, in 3.0 you're not really meant to be able to rattle off battle spells for an extended period of time, just like you're not meant to be able to fight with physical weapons for a few hours.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I agree that they're predisposed to speed, but I don't know if that means they're predisposed to rapid/repeated use over an extended period of time.
>>They prepare rapidly
They do this
>>have costs that do not assume the use of magical tools or support
I believe they also do this. Spells that assume the use of tools have really high preps, right? Like 20+ minimum preps. I think TM spells start in the 5-6 range, and get higher depending on how much they do. For example, TM spells in the Necromancer spellbook...
Acid Splash, 6 minimum: hurts one target
Blood Burst, 14 minimum: hurts one target and does splash damage
Universal Solvent, 15 minimum per pulse: AoE attack
Siphon Vitality, 17 minimum: hurts one target and restores vitality
Vivisection, 28 minimum: magical snipe
Now, if I really wanted, I could rattle off a few VIVs, but it would wear me out, mana-wise. At the same time, I bet if I did a series of quick sucker punches in combat I'd also wear out quickly, stamina-wise. Or I could pace myself better with ACS.
As far as I understand it, in 3.0 you're not really meant to be able to rattle off battle spells for an extended period of time, just like you're not meant to be able to fight with physical weapons for a few hours.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
LAMBL
Re: Battle Spell Mana Ranges
08/02/2012 06:07 PM CDT
>>>>have costs that do not assume the use of magical tools or support
See, I take this part to mean cambrinth and held mana. Normal spells assume the use of these things to get up into the higher levels of power, and they take time to use. With battle spells having the same maximum power levels as normal spells, they also pretty much require these things to reach higher levels of power, and it still takes time. This negates any benefit from having a rapid prep time if you're casting at an experience-awarding power level (difficulty). If you didn't have to get as much energy together (cost that doesn't assume the use of tools or support), then you could still cast high (for that spell) in a short amount of time, and all is right with the world.
I see what you mean about long-term casting, and from what I've seen so far you appear to be on the right track. Attunement is an incredibly scarce resource in 3.0, which might cause issues when it comes to experience gain. I'm mainly referring to a singular cast at this point, though.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
See, I take this part to mean cambrinth and held mana. Normal spells assume the use of these things to get up into the higher levels of power, and they take time to use. With battle spells having the same maximum power levels as normal spells, they also pretty much require these things to reach higher levels of power, and it still takes time. This negates any benefit from having a rapid prep time if you're casting at an experience-awarding power level (difficulty). If you didn't have to get as much energy together (cost that doesn't assume the use of tools or support), then you could still cast high (for that spell) in a short amount of time, and all is right with the world.
I see what you mean about long-term casting, and from what I've seen so far you appear to be on the right track. Attunement is an incredibly scarce resource in 3.0, which might cause issues when it comes to experience gain. I'm mainly referring to a singular cast at this point, though.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Battle Spell Mana Ranges
08/02/2012 06:46 PM CDT
>>See, I take this part to mean cambrinth and held mana
I think it refers to foci
>>With battle spells having the same maximum power levels as normal spells
I don't think you're expected to casually cast anything at cap anymore. You're supposed to make a more conscious decision about spell potency/integrity/duration.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I think it refers to foci
>>With battle spells having the same maximum power levels as normal spells
I don't think you're expected to casually cast anything at cap anymore. You're supposed to make a more conscious decision about spell potency/integrity/duration.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
