Hey folks!
It's been a while since we've had a big test, and after a whole bunch of work we've got things in MUCH better shape for you today!
The main focus of this test is Combat - We've tweaked a lot of things and had some great success balancing things out. We think combat is in very good shape right now, so please treat this test as one where everything that seems amiss is worth reporting.
As always, please contact me if you need setup on the bug account. The bugs on that site aren't quite updated yet but over the next day or so, but we'll get there. I'll be logged into Test to answer any questions you have.
Thanks and have fun!
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
DR-SOCHARIS
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Combat Testing!
08/14/2012 12:14 AM CDT
Would it be possible to give us a walkthrough of how GMs expect combat to work on the player side?
Based own my own experiences so far, the biggest hurdle I feel like I have to overcome is knowing the "right" way to fight in a 3.0 environment. I am liking that I don't need to worry about balance as much, but I'm also wondering if I'm attacking too fast (since I'm not waiting between each RT expiring before hitting again) or if I should expect to eventually take a break from fighting, or what's an example of a "good" combat methodology, etc.
As it is, I feel like I'm flying a bit blind with what I should be doing, and that might be poisoning the well when it comes to being able to give feedback about something acting wonky in combat.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
Based own my own experiences so far, the biggest hurdle I feel like I have to overcome is knowing the "right" way to fight in a 3.0 environment. I am liking that I don't need to worry about balance as much, but I'm also wondering if I'm attacking too fast (since I'm not waiting between each RT expiring before hitting again) or if I should expect to eventually take a break from fighting, or what's an example of a "good" combat methodology, etc.
As it is, I feel like I'm flying a bit blind with what I should be doing, and that might be poisoning the well when it comes to being able to give feedback about something acting wonky in combat.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Combat Testing!
08/14/2012 12:41 AM CDT
any idea when you gm-types will be around for copy-overs? as my prime-side barbs don't really compare to my plat-side, would like to test combat with her skills.
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Combat Testing!
08/14/2012 05:37 PM CDT
Certainly!
In general, here are some things to expect:
- Combat WILL be slower. In general, creatures are intended to take maybe twice as long to kill.
- If you attack as fast as your RT allows, you'll end up severely unbalancing yourself, which is not idea. If you want a few seconds after your attacks, you'll re-balance.
- Don't mention experience concerns yet - As we tweak, it'll change the exp models, so we're waiting until the feel of combat is right before we start looking at what exp to grant.
- At this point, all combat-related functionality should be considered good to go.
- Magic damage is way out of line right now and is being worked on, so don't worry about that. In general, focus mostly on combat and ignore magic until we can address a couple issues.
Does that help? Any other questions that might help clarify?
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
In general, here are some things to expect:
- Combat WILL be slower. In general, creatures are intended to take maybe twice as long to kill.
- If you attack as fast as your RT allows, you'll end up severely unbalancing yourself, which is not idea. If you want a few seconds after your attacks, you'll re-balance.
- Don't mention experience concerns yet - As we tweak, it'll change the exp models, so we're waiting until the feel of combat is right before we start looking at what exp to grant.
- At this point, all combat-related functionality should be considered good to go.
- Magic damage is way out of line right now and is being worked on, so don't worry about that. In general, focus mostly on combat and ignore magic until we can address a couple issues.
Does that help? Any other questions that might help clarify?
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Combat Testing!
08/14/2012 06:33 PM CDT
>>Does that help? Any other questions that might help clarify?
An example of a combo that you see as fighting properly in 3.0 would help a ton. Im sure you want us to experiment, but having a starting point for what makes sense on a basic level couldn't hurt.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
An example of a combo that you see as fighting properly in 3.0 would help a ton. Im sure you want us to experiment, but having a starting point for what makes sense on a basic level couldn't hurt.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Combat Testing!
08/14/2012 06:51 PM CDT
Jab and feint are balance-positive, slice and swing are neutral, draw and bash are balance-negative.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
STORM1
Re: Combat Testing!
08/14/2012 07:10 PM CDT
Thanks Socharis - that's helpful! Quick question:
<<- Combat WILL be slower. In general, creatures are intended to take maybe twice as long to kill.>>
Will the reverse be true? IE: Will creatures be slowing down their attacks, or facing the same principles of balance loss?
You say, "Tada."
WHAM
A sudden burst of oily smelling air strikes you in the face.
<<- Combat WILL be slower. In general, creatures are intended to take maybe twice as long to kill.>>
Will the reverse be true? IE: Will creatures be slowing down their attacks, or facing the same principles of balance loss?
You say, "Tada."
WHAM
A sudden burst of oily smelling air strikes you in the face.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Combat Testing!
08/15/2012 08:05 AM CDT
As a player you should be dying much slower. All players now have buffer vitality from circle 0, allowing you to soak 4-5x the number of hits before dying.
Also, body-damage will now be significantly reduced until you get to lower vitality levels.
Chance to hit is also different in C3.0 The range of to-hit is something like a D20 game where 1 always misses and 20 always hits - however, when a goblin rolls a 20 on your circle 50 character, it shouldn't register much worse than a "light" hit, generally speaking.
We are still discussing how to best handle the "soft roundtime" feature of C3.0. The current implementation is a bit confusing, so we'll be making some changes to it soon.
From some quick testing....
Prime, enemy a field goblin, 20 in all stats, 85 in weapon skill.
Dagger - 4 hits to kill
Scimitar - 3 hits to kill
Basty - 2.5 hits to kill
Claymore - 1.5 hits to kill
Test, enemy a field goblin, 20 in all stats, 85 weapon skill.
Dagger - 7 hits to kill
Scimitar - 6 hits to kill
Basty - 4.5 hits to kill
Claymore - 3 hits to kill
Player with 0 defenses versus Warklin Mauler and 30 stamina:
Prime - 2.1 hits until dead
Test - 14-22 hits before dead (Note, I am still playing with player-damage a bit. Seems a bit too low perhaps, but then again you ARE getting hit more, and players tend to do 50% or more damage than critters)
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Also, body-damage will now be significantly reduced until you get to lower vitality levels.
Chance to hit is also different in C3.0 The range of to-hit is something like a D20 game where 1 always misses and 20 always hits - however, when a goblin rolls a 20 on your circle 50 character, it shouldn't register much worse than a "light" hit, generally speaking.
We are still discussing how to best handle the "soft roundtime" feature of C3.0. The current implementation is a bit confusing, so we'll be making some changes to it soon.
From some quick testing....
Prime, enemy a field goblin, 20 in all stats, 85 in weapon skill.
Dagger - 4 hits to kill
Scimitar - 3 hits to kill
Basty - 2.5 hits to kill
Claymore - 1.5 hits to kill
Test, enemy a field goblin, 20 in all stats, 85 weapon skill.
Dagger - 7 hits to kill
Scimitar - 6 hits to kill
Basty - 4.5 hits to kill
Claymore - 3 hits to kill
Player with 0 defenses versus Warklin Mauler and 30 stamina:
Prime - 2.1 hits until dead
Test - 14-22 hits before dead (Note, I am still playing with player-damage a bit. Seems a bit too low perhaps, but then again you ARE getting hit more, and players tend to do 50% or more damage than critters)
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
PENDUS
Re: Combat Testing!
08/15/2012 08:52 AM CDT
It does kind of worry me that the difference between kill rates at my level vs low level are substantially slower. In assassins, with HE it took me between 10-15 swings to kill something and 8-10 with full aim with bow. Those numbers are also with buffs up. I don't mind it being slower, but if the low level combat is 3-7 swings, shouldn't high end combat be around the same number and not double it?
BEVERAGEK
Re: Combat Testing!
08/15/2012 09:39 AM CDT
I was consistantly taking down assassins with 3-7 shots unbuffed. Both with thrown and with a melee weapon.
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Combat Testing!
08/15/2012 09:54 AM CDT
Barbarian that has 70 in 2he in prime. was grandfathered to 94 in 2he. Not moving off "clear" in mid-level brocket deer.
And damn, i miss berserk stone. :-(.
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
And damn, i miss berserk stone. :-(.
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Combat Testing!
08/15/2012 11:28 AM CDT
Pendus: Was this from this morning? Last night some changes went in that might have made it more in-line.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
LAMBL
Re: Combat Testing!
08/15/2012 11:32 AM CDT
The thing that jumped out at me the most so far is that shield/evasion/parry don't seem to be doing very much. I set my stances to 0/0/0 against dragon priest assassins (roughly equal opponents from the combat messaging) and wasn't really getting hit noticeably more often or harder than when I had my stances up. This tells me that my skills in avoiding getting hit aren't really doing me any good against an evenly matched opponent, which stinks. If this isn't the result of some bug or other, I think maybe the to-hit phase could stand some adjustment.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
SULLIVANS3
Re: Combat Testing!
08/15/2012 11:37 AM CDT
Not sure if this is an issue or by design somehow (please, no) but when I tried to test yesterday I really couldn't get splitters to come to me. I mean, literally I could see 2 or 3 using HUNT but I could stand safely in any room they weren't in and they wouldn't come play.
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
PENDUS
Re: Combat Testing!
08/15/2012 11:44 AM CDT
Just tried again. 20 hits on a single assassin to kill it.
PENDUS
Re: Combat Testing!
08/15/2012 11:51 AM CDT
Sorry that was with HE. I just used full aim shots with short bow and it took 13 shots.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Combat Testing!
08/15/2012 12:56 PM CDT
>>Sorry that was with HE. I just used full aim shots with short bow and it took 13 shots.
This should be fixed.
>>Not sure if this is an issue or by design somehow (please, no) but when I tried to test yesterday I really couldn't get splitters to come to me.
Nope, not an X3 thing. Probably just a fluke or a difference between Prime.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
This should be fixed.
>>Not sure if this is an issue or by design somehow (please, no) but when I tried to test yesterday I really couldn't get splitters to come to me.
Nope, not an X3 thing. Probably just a fluke or a difference between Prime.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
