Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/02/2012 02:55 PM CST
Heyo!

This is just a quick post to clarify a few concerns that cropped up in January. Hopefully this will help alleviate some fears and worries. This is by no means comprehensive -- I just wanted to hit some of the more common things that were brought up.

* The fatigue regen rate will almost certainly be adjusted, so don't worry about it too much. I will say that the goal is to insure that nonstop fighting will result in eventual exhaustion, but taking a brief breather will have you back in the fight in no time. The regen rate should kick up tremendously outside combat and noticeably in certain in-combat situations, but that is one of the oldest parts of the combat rewrite, and I suspect something got reverted somewhere along the line, so I'll look into that aspect of it this weekend. In any case, the current rate will almost certainly change, but I do want to leave at least some room for making spells and special abilities that boost stamina actually -useful- at higher levels, as well as room for introducing stamina-boosters like potions, drinks, or foods.

* I know a lot of folks are noticing that they aren't parrying or blocking anymore based on the messaging, but they are still learning the skills when applicable. This is because the Combat Messaging System hasn't been updated to recognize the new defense model, so it will ALWAYS describe the result as an evasion. I assure you all the defenses you are using are actually being taken into account, and I'll get the messaging updated once I've got everything else balanced out. As long as you are gaining experience, you can rest assured your skills are being used. I may be able to do a temporary hack this weekend to at least let folks know how their defenses played out for future testing, but no promises.

* Several people noticed damage issues at high level; specifically, most hits seem to be glancing and not actually doing much if any damage. This is not because the new combat system is broken, per se. This is because many of the higher level critters were given extremely high armor values, resistances, and other damage-reducing features in order to compensate for the insane damage output at high levels. Out-of-control damage at these levels is no longer as much an issue in 3.0, so this hyper-defense is basically overkill now. We'll have to address many of these on a per-critter basis. This doesn't mean damage may not also need some tweaking, but by and large the issue is more with critters just reducing all damage by a very large amount. When damage totals are extremely high, this means that what gets through can still be a hard hit. When damage is actually in the range that doesn't mean one-shot kills without godlike armor, then said godlike armor basically reduces damage to insignificance. For testing purposes, if you are in the correct skill range and hitting it relatively consistently, we are in good shape. We'll get the "armor" fixed as needed, and damage may yet be tweaked a bit more.



- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/02/2012 03:55 PM CST
Thank you for the updates Dart :)

>>This doesn't mean damage may not also need some tweaking...

I am thinking this is the case. I think Worrclan and Taleek did a test, but it took one of them something like 10+ minutes to finally kill the other who was laying down :P

~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/02/2012 04:10 PM CST
LOL, yea... It was like 8 to 10 min with Wor laying down sans armor I believe, willing to bet it was 60 plus swings+khri spar.><
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/02/2012 07:36 PM CST
>>I also want to say that experience will be based on how fast the attack can be launched, and the degree of challenge, so training small weapons should be a lot more viable since damage is no longer the primary factor in experience gain. Damage is also now being capped (like it was back in the days of yore), so there won't be as severe a difference in damage between a bastie and a dagger. The bastard sword will absolutely hit harder most of the time when it hits, but the gap shouldn't be nearly as extreme most of the time, and the dagger is actually more likely to hit in the first place. Higher damage is meaningless if you can't hit anything with it!<<

So then what's the point of using a big weapon? If lighter/smaller weapons train better, what's the incentive to use a greatsword? If it hits less often and doesn't do much more damage than a dagger, there's no real use for them.
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/02/2012 08:42 PM CST
>So then what's the point of using a big weapon? If lighter/smaller weapons train better, what's the incentive to use a greatsword?

I would expect Force of Impact, Stun chance and crit levels to be much better on the heavier weapons.


Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/02/2012 09:03 PM CST
I don't think anyone said large weapons would train badly.

All the GMs seem to have said was that the exp model wouldn't be based on landing ultra hard hits. So landing 5 hits with a 2 RT dagger may give the same exp as landing 2 hits with a 5 RT greatsword.

This will probably also be a good thing for people with weapons that hit so hard they kill in very few hits. I've heard complaints that you need a nonstop stream of mobs to lock weapons. If the new model isn't based on needing to land ultra heavy hits that then result in you not being able to land MORE hits because you killed the mob too fast, you may be able to get reasonable amounts of exp without needing that never ending stream of mobs.
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/05/2012 02:40 PM CST
> I don't think anyone said large weapons would train badly.

Definitely not. EXP based on level of challenge modified by time it takes to land the attack. In other words, the goal is for a dagger and a bastard sword to give roughly the same experience over a given period of time.


> All the GMs seem to have said was that the exp model wouldn't be based on landing ultra hard hits. So landing 5 hits with a 2 RT dagger may give the same exp as landing 2 hits with a 5 RT greatsword.

Bingo. It won't be perfect, but it should be a lot more fair across weapon types than the current system.



- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/05/2012 03:01 PM CST
Much <3 Dart :)

~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/05/2012 03:18 PM CST
> I would expect Force of Impact, Stun chance and crit levels to be much better on the heavier weapons.

For the most part, yes. Force of Impact and Suitability will be the big determining factors in damage, stuns, and things of that nature. This tends to mean that heavier weapons will be better in these areas, but it's important to remember that Force of Impact and Suitability are based on weapon stats, not the size or category. So while your statement is true in a general sense, I'm sure there are and will be weapons out there that don't exactly fit the general expectation. Crit levels are a little different -- small weapons will have a higher chance to get a positive to-hit crit on the random roll. Two-handers will have a higher chance to get a positive damage crit on the random roll.


- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/05/2012 04:04 PM CST
> LOL, yea... It was like 8 to 10 min with Wor laying down sans armor I believe, willing to bet it was 60 plus swings+khri spar.><

Any chance I can get with the two of you sometime over the coming week or two? -- Monday-Wednesday in the late evening (9:30pm+ eastern) or early mornings (9:30+ am easter) would be best for me, but any evening or morning will work. I'd like to witness this and see what is going on. In the meantime, was the problem just not hitting, or was it glancing blows that just weren't doing significant damage? In other words, was the problem not being able to hit what you should be able to hit, or the damage just not being there when you did?

I'm assuming, of course, that the skills involved were such that this was actually an unexpected result. :-P


- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/05/2012 04:46 PM CST
Mornings are bad for me but any other time is fine, From Taleeks perspective is was like hitting a bag of sand with a rubber noodle. I'd say it was mostly on the damage side of things.
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/18/2012 11:37 PM CST
> LOL, yea... It was like 8 to 10 min with Wor laying down sans armor I believe, willing to bet it was 60 plus swings+khri spar.><

>>Any chance I can get with the two of you sometime over the coming week or two? -- Monday-Wednesday in the late evening (9:30pm+ eastern) or early mornings (9:30+ am easter) would be best for me, but any evening or morning will work. I'd like to witness this and see what is going on. In the meantime, was the problem just not hitting, or was it glancing blows that just weren't doing significant damage? In other words, was the problem not being able to hit what you should be able to hit, or the damage just not being there when you did?

>>I'm assuming, of course, that the skills involved were such that this was actually an unexpected result. :-P

Yes, he should have at the time been able to land lots of big hits and kill me quickly, but it took me stancing down to nothing just about and not wearing armor.

**
We did some testing, with the new changes to see if it still happened, and I am no longer invincible. It was a good fight even if a bit one way, I couldn't land a hit on him, but I survived a good long time. His hits ranged from light to big hits, looked like it was working as intended on that part. When magic comes back, I might stand a pretty good chance actually.

>>* I know a lot of folks are noticing that they aren't parrying or blocking anymore based on the messaging, but they are still learning the skills when applicable. This is because the Combat Messaging System hasn't been updated to recognize the new defense model, so it will ALWAYS describe the result as an evasion. I assure you all the defenses you are using are actually being taken into account, and I'll get the messaging updated once I've got everything else balanced out. As long as you are gaining experience, you can rest assured your skills are being used. I may be able to do a temporary hack this weekend to at least let folks know how their defenses played out for future testing, but no promises.


After our testing, we are not sure that all defenses are really truly working. Are you sure?

When Taleek sheathed his weapon, and just dodged or parried, I could hit him easily. Almost every hit was a very big hit.
If he stanced for shield, I could hit him to. With just a parry stick worn and no weapon in hand, I could hit him easy to. While I understand it might not be messaging right, I shouldn't be able to hit him with my main weapon(476) vs his parry/evasion/stats(612/757). Something isn't working right there. Whatever the something is, it may be causing critters that shouldn't be able to touch me to be able to as well. Offensively it is a LOT better with your current changes. (Taleek and I will be able to make this next Wednesday at 10pm est for you to observe)

--

Also should poison be working correctly in test? If so it is working... but not as well as it should perhaps.


~Worrclan, Dwarf of the Realms-


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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/18/2012 11:45 PM CST
Taleek 3, Dwarf 1. Good times:)
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/19/2012 12:07 AM CST
>>this next Wednesday at 10pm est for you to observe

Are there particular times when we should be testing so that the red names can observe?

~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
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Re: Some Quick Clarifications from January Testing 02/19/2012 12:49 AM CST
>>this next Wednesday at 10pm est for you to observe

>>Are there particular times when we should be testing so that the red names can observe?


In general no. However if it is something really funky, or if the GMs request it, yeah.


~Worrclan, Dwarf of the Realms-
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