Continuing this discussion in a more appropriate folder...

>>Tev I think your misunderstanding me, I am not of the opinion that the GM given charges or anything like that is bad(the fine amounts could use a review) what I have the issue with is that when they use the mechanic there is a timer set on you and you can get auto-arrested ANYWHERE once its on you.

Believe it or not, most of us (events GMs) are also unhappy with the lack of options we have when it comes to reacting to evil RP. Right now we have stuff that's basically a slap on the wrist, and stuff that grossly inconveniences you and is not that fun, and not very much in the middle.

In addition to that, since most consequences have to be administered by a GM* there can be a lack of consistency in how and what consequences are administered, which can be confusing to the people on the receiving end. As Events GMs, ignoring Necromancer/Bad Guy rampages has its own problems, as one of our jobs is to protect the RP setting. Sorry, it flat doesn't make sense for someone to throw down one room away from justice and then claim they were out of town so nothing should have happened to them. Want to talk about meta gaming? Bad guys can do it too!

But in addition to protecting the setting, and perhaps, even before that, our job is to make events fun.

So it can be a kind of tough row to hoe. All this is to say -- we're totally aware of the shortcomings of the current justice system setup and the current options for consequences for misbehaving. Most of us would really like to have more options, but for now we have to work with what we've got, most of which is 1996-a-riffic, and it shows (barring the Necro specific stuff). But unfortunately, developer time is at an absolute premium right now, so updates to the justice system will probably take a while to happen.

Melete

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Lore Developer
S'Kra Mur Race Champion
Empath Advocate
Advocates Lead
Events Lead

* Though as others have said, it's absolutely true that you can get auto-arrested out of town without a GM lifting a finger.

>>Right now we have stuff that's basically a slap on the wrist, and stuff that grossly inconveniences you and is not that fun, and not very much in the middle.

For what it's worth, it's good to see that we're on the same page when it comes to this stuff.

>>As Events GMs, ignoring Necromancer/Bad Guy rampages has its own problems, as one of our jobs is to protect the RP setting. Sorry, it flat doesn't make sense for someone to throw down one room away from justice and then claim they were out of town so nothing should have happened to them. Want to talk about meta gaming? Bad guys can do it too!

Personally, I'm not a fan of auto-message deus ex machina setups. This isn't something unique to just necros, and I absolutely understand that sometimes certain endings need to be achieved ("No, guys, we REALLY need this new location discovered") and certain things just can not happen ("No, you can't kill GMNPC X because that person is connected to a few more months of event-planning!"). I also think events as a whole have moved away from that kind of setup, but it feels like Necromancers/Team Bad Guy RP is a bit stuck there still.

I've banged this gong a bit before, but my dream setup is that there could be certain mobs that are only aggressive toward people who pass a certain social outrage threshold. Along with that, players who aren't flagged with that certain level of social outrage would also have those mobs flagged like non-intended-to-be-attacked mobs, like empath guardian spirits. Attacking those mobs would generate SO, killing those mobs would generate more SO, and people who those mobs aren't aggro to would be warned about attacking them before doing so.

When Necros reach the "call the Hounds!" level of SO, those mobs start spawning around them. As they keep fighting/sticking around/whatever, bigger and bigger mobs spawn over time. Eventually, the player needs to make the choice to run or die. I feel this would work well because it gives players more control over their fate. Instead of just being greeted with death, they get to fight things off, until they are literally outclassed by the enemies.

Necros of increased skill also have the ability to fight longer, so a 1st circle Necromancer and a 200th circle Necrolord don't somehow get killed. As an added bonus, it lets team evil actually work like a team, and those other team members actually feel the SO-based burn for doing so under what should be seen as reasonable measures.

If you wanted to get things even more complex, it would be interesting if multiple team evils in different locations in that province would delay the rate at which those mobs spawn/improve/etc, because they can't focus themselves in just one location.

Granted, I'm well aware this is a pie-in-the-sky-no-context-of-how-hard-it-is-to-code concept. But I do hope that eventually this is where things can go. Heck, I'd hope even normal guards eventually work like this. Why would the guy who just killed 200th circle barbarian end up getting captured by a local town guard? It would be nice to see that Barbarian get to take down a ton of guards before the real big provincial powerhouses would be called to stop the problem.

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The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).

A bunch of posts that contained nearly nothing constructive or on topic were moved to the Conflicts folder.

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>The increasing-in-difficulty guard mobs is a thing that has been proposed on the forums over and over again for years, and it would be neat if that was a reality. But again, all hypothetical and I haven't really dug that far to see how feasible/difficult it would be, or discussed it with my bosses and comrades, &c &c &c.

If agro guards 100% replaced auto-purge/auto-arrest, they could probably still retain the "auto-arrest" if someone surrenders to them. (Basing this on how many monsters have unique reactions to some commands.)

But then Hounds would have to be differentiated from standard guards (since they wouldn't accept an accuse Necromancer's surrender, most likely) and it'd just be that much more effort to program...

>>But then Hounds would have to be differentiated from standard guards (since they wouldn't accept an accuse Necromancer's surrender, most likely) and it'd just be that much more effort to program...

It would be interesting to give Necros the opportunity to surrender. Surrendering to the Hounds could always give a bump to SO decay. And, dependent on Charisma, the chance to just get roughed up and/or expelled from the province instead of executed.

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The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).

>timer or the 'conditions' that seem to trigger when your in the middle of the RP will cease.

I'm curious of your impressions on how getting arrested/hounded differs from getting regular-killed, or thumped, in terms of the progression of roleplay? Mechanics-wise (SO, item loss, etc) I can empathize on how it's a pretty crude and unwieldy gameplay element, but the roleplay point loses me. Is it the uncontested bit? If so... ignore me. I'm a terrible outlier with no experience in PVP conflicts where I could have won a contest so I could never relate, heh!

Conversely, say your the bad guy necromancer thats been wandered upon by a traveling group of Provincially sanctioned Guardsmen(players) and they catch you and after some words and your failure to surrender and leave at their demands a fight ensues. (Now we know as the bad guy you'll never win the war) You call forth the unholy power at your command and rip into the ranks. Your about to prevail and take the last one or two out to make your escape on your own terms when BAM some guards you have no ability to combat against pop out and arrest you. Not only are you robbed of a battle victory(So we know you can't win the war, but with this you cannot even take a battle victory) but you are also robbed of saying your victory piece before moving on. It makes the scenarios and confrontations leave a bad taste in your mouth.

You feel a brief sense of unease, as if somehow, somewhere, you'd run afoul of the law.

Ah, so the auto-arrest is breaking up fights. That makes sense.