Ok, so in the past I've just randomly sold my nuggets and bars that I've gathered up from looting and from boxes with out really paying attention. However today I got a nugget from an ashu hhinvi box, it was the only item in the box. Now hhinvi boxes average around 1.5 plat I'd say. So I took a close look at this nugget and got the following:
>appr my nugg careful
The gold nugget is made with metal.
You are certain that the gold nugget has a quality of 97, placing it at 'very pure' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the gold nugget has a hardness of 10, placing it at 'extremely soft' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the gold nugget has a durability of 20, placing it at 'poor durability' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the gold nugget has a workability of 40, placing it at 'somewhat challenging to work with' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the gold nugget has an electrical resistance of 15, placing it at 'an incredible conductor of electricity' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the gold nugget has a thermal resistance of 15, placing it at 'incredible at transferring heat and cold' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the gold nugget has a physical resistance of 10, placing it at 'terrible at repelling physical blows' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain the gold nugget has a volume of 5.
You are certain that the gold nugget weighs exactly 45 stones.
You are certain that the gold nugget is worth exactly 41465 Lirums.
So a darn pure nugget with an appraisal value of 4.1 plat. But when I went to sell it I decided to see what he'd offer me and got the following response:
You ask Mhasulri to appraise a huge gold nugget.
Mhasulri examines the gold nugget carefully, holding it up to the light, then whispers, "I'll pay 5043 Lirums for it."
So he's offering 5 gold for a 5 volume 4.1 plat nugget. So he's offering me nearly 1/8th its value.
So sold a tiny gold nugget that I had:
You ask Mhasulri to buy a tiny gold nugget.
Mhasulri scrutinizes the gold nugget carefully, then hands you 2559 Lirums.
So for one volume I get 2.5 gold and for 5 volume I get 5 gold?
Just for kicks a friend pulled out a medium animite nugget and we got the following:
You are certain that the animite nugget has a quality of 96, placing it at 'very pure' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain the animite nugget has a volume of 3.
You are certain that the animite nugget is worth exactly 101818 Lirums.
You ask Mhasulri to appraise a medium animite nugget.
Mhasulri examines the animite nugget carefully, holding it up to the light, then whispers, "I'll pay 5596 Lirums for it."
Now mind you, that animite was mined and not from a box, but still, he's offering 1/20th its value.
I can understand offering less than its value if we look at the fact its not refined, but it should be a reasonable value.
Now if the concern is that folks will just farm this stuff for money, then take this stuff out of the loot and box system. It just becomes depressing to think, "if that had been a gem I'd have made 1.5 plat, instead its a nugget worth 4 plat and I only make 5 gold off of it."
So I guess my question is, is this acting as intended or is this a bug? If its acting as intended, I personally vote for removing nuggets and bars from the loot and box system, I'd rather have gems or coin. If its a bug and in the 'to be fixed' bin, awesome, thanks for answering my question.
Mordibar
PSHA
BADGOPHER
Re: Question about nuggets and bars from critters
01/20/2014 03:33 PM CST
>So I guess my question is, is this acting as intended or is this a bug? If its acting as intended, I personally vote for removing nuggets and bars from the loot and box system, I'd rather have gems or coin. If its a bug and in the 'to be fixed' bin, awesome, thanks for answering my question.
My understanding is that it's entirely intentional. And that Kodius specifically wants the bars/nuggets to remain in the system as crafting tie-ins. I'd expect to see more as more of the crafting systems get released (since currently only metalworking supplies drop).
I'd, personally, be fine with removing the chance to drop non-rare crafting supplies. No one really wants the bars as compared to equal value gems, and they're only worthwhile to people who already craft.
My understanding is that it's entirely intentional. And that Kodius specifically wants the bars/nuggets to remain in the system as crafting tie-ins. I'd expect to see more as more of the crafting systems get released (since currently only metalworking supplies drop).
I'd, personally, be fine with removing the chance to drop non-rare crafting supplies. No one really wants the bars as compared to equal value gems, and they're only worthwhile to people who already craft.
PSHA
Re: Question about nuggets and bars from critters
01/20/2014 04:47 PM CST
Then I guess the question becomes-- Why are larger more valuable nuggets getting such a low price in the gem shop? I'd make more coin if I could break them into single volume nuggets and sell them individually, not that I can, but you see the point.
Mordibar
Mordibar
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Question about nuggets and bars from critters
01/20/2014 05:39 PM CST
I think there are two things going on:
1) Material nuggets have their sale value scale down because of the assumption that they're primarily obtained by mining. A 1 gold X might get you 8 silver, a 2 gold X might get you 15 silver, and a 5 gold X might get you 30 silver. I tend to just sell tiny, small and occasionally medium silver/gold/platinum nuggets and use the rest for my WO ingot. It depends on the value of the metal, and the return on how much you're offered diminishes as it gains value.
2) For whatever reason, materials looted from the treasure hopper seem to have their prices valued... weirdly. If I had to guess, whatever happens when gems are generated has their value tacked on at the end of "the process", which results in some nuggets being worth way more (or way less) than what they should appraise if they were mined.
I've gotten electrum nuggets that appraised as two or three silver (it should be a few gold per volume) and silver nuggets that appraised as a plat or two (which also shouldn't be the case). When you smelt a material, the magic code mumbo jumbo that goes on ends up "correcting" the value, so that few silver electrum nugget becomes a proper value electrum ingot. Of course, those high-value metals end up becoming proper value, which is less good.
When those abnormally high valued valued for nuggets (but would be properly valued for gems) materials get sold at the gem seller, it still does that thing going on in (1), so you get notably less money than you should.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
1) Material nuggets have their sale value scale down because of the assumption that they're primarily obtained by mining. A 1 gold X might get you 8 silver, a 2 gold X might get you 15 silver, and a 5 gold X might get you 30 silver. I tend to just sell tiny, small and occasionally medium silver/gold/platinum nuggets and use the rest for my WO ingot. It depends on the value of the metal, and the return on how much you're offered diminishes as it gains value.
2) For whatever reason, materials looted from the treasure hopper seem to have their prices valued... weirdly. If I had to guess, whatever happens when gems are generated has their value tacked on at the end of "the process", which results in some nuggets being worth way more (or way less) than what they should appraise if they were mined.
I've gotten electrum nuggets that appraised as two or three silver (it should be a few gold per volume) and silver nuggets that appraised as a plat or two (which also shouldn't be the case). When you smelt a material, the magic code mumbo jumbo that goes on ends up "correcting" the value, so that few silver electrum nugget becomes a proper value electrum ingot. Of course, those high-value metals end up becoming proper value, which is less good.
When those abnormally high valued valued for nuggets (but would be properly valued for gems) materials get sold at the gem seller, it still does that thing going on in (1), so you get notably less money than you should.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
OLSONM6
Re: Question about nuggets and bars from critters
01/20/2014 05:42 PM CST
>Then I guess the question becomes-- Why are larger more valuable nuggets getting such a low price in the gem shop?
The way it works is that the gem shop offers you a % of the appraisal value, with the percent offered being lower the higher the appraisal value is.
This is so that you can't get 10 plat from nuggets from mining. The downside is that it completely kills the value of high-end boxes when the generate a valuable nugget/bar as loot.
Don't forget to vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
The way it works is that the gem shop offers you a % of the appraisal value, with the percent offered being lower the higher the appraisal value is.
This is so that you can't get 10 plat from nuggets from mining. The downside is that it completely kills the value of high-end boxes when the generate a valuable nugget/bar as loot.
Don't forget to vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
PSHA
Re: Question about nuggets and bars from critters
01/20/2014 07:17 PM CST
>>This is so that you can't get 10 plat from nuggets from mining. The downside is that it completely kills the value of high-end boxes when the generate a valuable nugget/bar as loot.
Paying out less than the appraised value since its impure is one thing but paying out at 5-12% of the appraised value is a bit ridiculous. Especially when a much smaller nugget nets you a much higher percentage, and by higher we are looking at around 50%. That's some pretty steep scaling.
And likely in the end you get far more than 10 plat from those mined nuggets. You just have to take the time to refine them and then turn around and sell them to a player who needs that ingot.
Paying out less than the appraised value since its impure is one thing but paying out at 5-12% of the appraised value is a bit ridiculous. Especially when a much smaller nugget nets you a much higher percentage, and by higher we are looking at around 50%. That's some pretty steep scaling.
And likely in the end you get far more than 10 plat from those mined nuggets. You just have to take the time to refine them and then turn around and sell them to a player who needs that ingot.
OLSONM6
Re: Question about nuggets and bars from critters
01/21/2014 09:46 AM CST
>And likely in the end you get far more than 10 plat from those mined nuggets. You just have to take the time to refine them and then turn around and sell them to a player who needs that ingot.
This is different in a couple ways. First, it's added time investment to smelting the ingot, finding a buyer, etc. Second, P2P coin transfer doesn't add money into the system.
Don't forget to vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
This is different in a couple ways. First, it's added time investment to smelting the ingot, finding a buyer, etc. Second, P2P coin transfer doesn't add money into the system.
Don't forget to vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
