XXXXXXX gives you 70000 copper Kronars.
This is getting really REALLY old as a way around mechanics, weighing someone down so you are able to shoot/hit them with a weapon. I understand there is a need to carry that much coin on you for a festival or something, and that the money does actually weigh something.
If you were to translate a copper kronar to a penny, which would be a fair assessment, the weight would roughly be 386 lbs which would, without a doubt, weigh someone down no matter how strong you are.
My issue is this - Why should someone be able to give me 386 lbs worth of ANYTHING without me "accepting" it?
Thanks.
PEZZZ
GRIM45
Re: Giving Money
09/02/2013 05:55 PM CDT
As this is mechanics abuse, it's fairly straightforward that this should be reported.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Giving Money
09/02/2013 08:15 PM CDT
>>My issue is this - Why should someone be able to give me 386 lbs worth of ANYTHING without me "accepting" it?
While I'm all for requiring a prompt to take money given just like tips, as was previously said this is bug abuse that should be treated accordingly.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
While I'm all for requiring a prompt to take money given just like tips, as was previously said this is bug abuse that should be treated accordingly.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Giving Money
09/02/2013 09:06 PM CDT
Seems like this would be a fairly easy !avoid for someone to code up.
But yeah, mech abuse is bad.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
But yeah, mech abuse is bad.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
TCOOL13
Re: Giving Money
09/02/2013 10:39 PM CDT
<<Seems like this would be a fairly easy !avoid for someone to code up.
In TF we don't have avoids.
I did just try to use demeanor cold to avoid getting coins but that doesn't prevent it.
Waiting for results..................................................................................................................
In TF we don't have avoids.
I did just try to use demeanor cold to avoid getting coins but that doesn't prevent it.
Waiting for results..................................................................................................................
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 08:21 AM CDT
>>In TF we don't have avoids.
I wasn't aware. Seems odd.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
I wasn't aware. Seems odd.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
TCOOL13
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 10:34 AM CDT
<<I wasn't aware. Seems odd.
It is purposeful that way.
R> avoid
AVOID is not a feature of this game instance.
There use to be several ways to get around it but no clue if they even still work.
The tip verb requires you to accept, but there are times when not having to accept money given is a good thing. But I feel there should be a cap on the amount or maybe have it auto bump up to the largest denomination. I mean if someone wants to give me 70k plat in order to weigh me down enough to kill me I wont complain.
Waiting for results..................................................................................................................
It is purposeful that way.
R> avoid
AVOID is not a feature of this game instance.
There use to be several ways to get around it but no clue if they even still work.
The tip verb requires you to accept, but there are times when not having to accept money given is a good thing. But I feel there should be a cap on the amount or maybe have it auto bump up to the largest denomination. I mean if someone wants to give me 70k plat in order to weigh me down enough to kill me I wont complain.
Waiting for results..................................................................................................................
RANDDOMNESS
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 10:43 AM CDT
Some people just like to give large amounts of coin to other people out of the goodness of their heart. I think it would be wrong to disallow this beautiful gesture of giving from being able to take place.
Don't make accounts while under the influence - it may lead to ridiculous spelling errors.
Don't make accounts while under the influence - it may lead to ridiculous spelling errors.
RANDDOMNESS
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 10:48 AM CDT
In all honesty though, I do think a simple avoid! coin would solve the issue quite well.
Also - I don't know who thought the log IN timer was a good idea. If anything there should be an LOG OUT timer. As it is, people log before they get killed all the time and then can log back in hours later when the attacker isn't even there.
Pretty counter intuitive if you ask me.
Don't make accounts while under the influence - it may lead to ridiculous spelling errors.
Also - I don't know who thought the log IN timer was a good idea. If anything there should be an LOG OUT timer. As it is, people log before they get killed all the time and then can log back in hours later when the attacker isn't even there.
Pretty counter intuitive if you ask me.
Don't make accounts while under the influence - it may lead to ridiculous spelling errors.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 10:50 AM CDT
>>In all honesty though, I do think a simple avoid! coin would solve the issue quite well.
"Avoid! coin" just means that people can take certain measures to avoid bug abuse, not that the action itself isn't bug abuse to begin with.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
"Avoid! coin" just means that people can take certain measures to avoid bug abuse, not that the action itself isn't bug abuse to begin with.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
RANDDOMNESS
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 11:01 AM CDT
Logging out to avoid death is also bug abuse. Yet it happens all the time in TF.
We could sit here explaining the virtues of proper vs improper bug abuse, or we could think of simple fixes. The choice is yours.
Don't make accounts while under the influence - it may lead to ridiculous spelling errors.
We could sit here explaining the virtues of proper vs improper bug abuse, or we could think of simple fixes. The choice is yours.
Don't make accounts while under the influence - it may lead to ridiculous spelling errors.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 11:17 AM CDT
>>Logging out to avoid death is also bug abuse. Yet it happens all the time in TF.
It happens in all instances. Doesn't mean it is any less bug abuse.
>>We could sit here explaining the virtues of proper vs improper bug abuse, or we could think of simple fixes. The choice is yours.
I already said I'm good with accepting coin working like accepting tips. I also said that it's bug abuse and should be treated accordingly.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
It happens in all instances. Doesn't mean it is any less bug abuse.
>>We could sit here explaining the virtues of proper vs improper bug abuse, or we could think of simple fixes. The choice is yours.
I already said I'm good with accepting coin working like accepting tips. I also said that it's bug abuse and should be treated accordingly.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 12:24 PM CDT
>> I also said that it's bug abuse and should be treated accordingly.
which is completely ignoring it right?
In all seriousness, what about having give coin round up to larger values, like if you give someone 1000 copper, it turns into 1 gold automatically.
I can't think of where that would cause issues/exploits?
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
which is completely ignoring it right?
In all seriousness, what about having give coin round up to larger values, like if you give someone 1000 copper, it turns into 1 gold automatically.
I can't think of where that would cause issues/exploits?
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 01:47 PM CDT
>>which is completely ignoring it right?
...Why would the appropriate way to respond to bug abuse be ignoring it?
>>In all seriousness, what about having give coin round up to larger values, like if you give someone 1000 copper, it turns into 1 gold automatically. I can't think of where that would cause issues/exploits?
I know that tipping already does this, but I'm not a fan of that for the exact opposite reason of the give coin thing: it lets people avoid all the weight of picking up those small denomination coins so they can stay on the field longer.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
...Why would the appropriate way to respond to bug abuse be ignoring it?
>>In all seriousness, what about having give coin round up to larger values, like if you give someone 1000 copper, it turns into 1 gold automatically. I can't think of where that would cause issues/exploits?
I know that tipping already does this, but I'm not a fan of that for the exact opposite reason of the give coin thing: it lets people avoid all the weight of picking up those small denomination coins so they can stay on the field longer.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
RANDDOMNESS
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 01:57 PM CDT
>>which is completely ignoring it right?
>>...Why would the appropriate way to respond to bug abuse be ignoring it?
I think the appropriate way to respond to bug abuse is to fix the bug.
Don't make accounts while under the influence - it may lead to ridiculous spelling errors.
>>...Why would the appropriate way to respond to bug abuse be ignoring it?
I think the appropriate way to respond to bug abuse is to fix the bug.
Don't make accounts while under the influence - it may lead to ridiculous spelling errors.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 02:28 PM CDT
>>I think the appropriate way to respond to bug abuse is to fix the bug.
Being able to give people coins isn't a bug. It's intentional for players to give other players coins.
Giving people thousands of copper coins to burden them in order to win in a fight is a bug, because the system never intended for players to give someone thousands of copper coins in order to increase their burden in order to penalize them in combat.
Once again, I'm all for having GIVE COIN work like TIP, where a confirmation is required. I'm also all for telling people to be proactive and report when someone is abusing a system until that kind of solution can be implemented.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Being able to give people coins isn't a bug. It's intentional for players to give other players coins.
Giving people thousands of copper coins to burden them in order to win in a fight is a bug, because the system never intended for players to give someone thousands of copper coins in order to increase their burden in order to penalize them in combat.
Once again, I'm all for having GIVE COIN work like TIP, where a confirmation is required. I'm also all for telling people to be proactive and report when someone is abusing a system until that kind of solution can be implemented.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
JASON42
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 03:53 PM CDT
>In all seriousness, what about having give coin round up to larger values, like if you give someone 1000 copper, it turns into 1 gold automatically.
This.
- Kart / Rhoat
This.
- Kart / Rhoat
REASONMJ
Re: Giving Money
09/03/2013 10:10 PM CDT
>In all seriousness, what about having give coin round up to larger values, like if you give someone 1000 copper, it turns into 1 gold automatically.
This is a much better potential solution than another avoid command
Coins weigh an unrealistically stupid amount in this game, so any command that lets people bypass their weight mechanic is a good one IMO. Especially when one already exists so adding a second one creates absolutely nothing new
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
This is a much better potential solution than another avoid command
Coins weigh an unrealistically stupid amount in this game, so any command that lets people bypass their weight mechanic is a good one IMO. Especially when one already exists so adding a second one creates absolutely nothing new
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
LHALLFIN
Re: Giving Money
09/04/2013 03:18 AM CDT
My vote is to eliminate coin weight.
I know that has a potential impact on people deep in the field who suddenly won't have to run back to town to dump it... but realistically people are gonna bog down enough with boxes, gems and skins anyway.
Even the bank boxes, in my mind, have value of convenience outside of avoiding coin weight issues.
Also the next time I have to lug around 100,000 platinum for an auction I won't feel like I'm leaving impact craters.
SCHULTZS3
Re: Giving Money
09/04/2013 03:56 AM CDT
>Coins weigh an unrealistically stupid amount in this game
Actually, it's better to say they weigh a stupidly realistic amount in this game.
100k pennies would weigh on the order of 560 lb.
Gold and platinum are REALLY dense, approximately 2-2.5 times as dense as silver, copper, and tin.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Actually, it's better to say they weigh a stupidly realistic amount in this game.
100k pennies would weigh on the order of 560 lb.
Gold and platinum are REALLY dense, approximately 2-2.5 times as dense as silver, copper, and tin.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Giving Money
09/04/2013 06:26 AM CDT
>>...Why would the appropriate way to respond to bug abuse be ignoring it?
Oh I was just referring to the logging out when in danger is apparently bug abuse but it's not enforced. So essentially it's ignored. Everyone knows people who use genie have triggers to log them out when they get in trouble.
>>My vote is to eliminate coin weight.
Yeah probably my idea that I mentioned earlier or this, whichever one is easier to implement and takes the least amount of time.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
Oh I was just referring to the logging out when in danger is apparently bug abuse but it's not enforced. So essentially it's ignored. Everyone knows people who use genie have triggers to log them out when they get in trouble.
>>My vote is to eliminate coin weight.
Yeah probably my idea that I mentioned earlier or this, whichever one is easier to implement and takes the least amount of time.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
ROBERTDH
Re: Giving Money
09/04/2013 12:01 PM CDT
>Gold and platinum are REALLY dense, approximately 2-2.5 times as dense as silver, copper, and tin.
I'd be surprised if the currency wasn't significantly debased.
I'd be surprised if the currency wasn't significantly debased.
ELRIIC
Re: Giving Money
09/04/2013 12:11 PM CDT
Coin is heavy and the weight is realistic.. This is just something I wish we'd suspend reality for.
The GameMasters are quick to say that in DR they can do whatever they want because its not real life when its convenient... This is something, we the players wish would be suspended... to make it convenient.
--
In memory of Lisa/Martee. Passed 6/17/2013. A friend. A sister.
The GameMasters are quick to say that in DR they can do whatever they want because its not real life when its convenient... This is something, we the players wish would be suspended... to make it convenient.
--
In memory of Lisa/Martee. Passed 6/17/2013. A friend. A sister.
REASONMJ
Re: Giving Money
09/04/2013 10:47 PM CDT
>>Actually, it's better to say they weigh a stupidly realistic amount in this game.
>>100k pennies would weigh on the order of 560 lb.
No it isn't realistic. In Dragonrealms, 100k coins weigh 2000 pounds.
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
>>100k pennies would weigh on the order of 560 lb.
No it isn't realistic. In Dragonrealms, 100k coins weigh 2000 pounds.
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
STILVA
Re: Giving Money
09/05/2013 01:05 AM CDT
>>No it isn't realistic. In Dragonrealms, 100k coins weigh 2000 pounds.
Yeah, DR currently weighs coins at almost 2x heavier than they should be at absolute heaviest, and even that seems like a realism thing that should be adjusted a bit. I doubt coins having separate weights is an effort worth putting time into (if even possible), but lowering the static weight would be nice to see.
The problem is I do think people will script much more if coins are lightened - Many scripters I see drop skins at their feet and ignore boxes when full, and only stop after getting so much coin weight.
Yeah, DR currently weighs coins at almost 2x heavier than they should be at absolute heaviest, and even that seems like a realism thing that should be adjusted a bit. I doubt coins having separate weights is an effort worth putting time into (if even possible), but lowering the static weight would be nice to see.
The problem is I do think people will script much more if coins are lightened - Many scripters I see drop skins at their feet and ignore boxes when full, and only stop after getting so much coin weight.
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Giving Money
09/05/2013 09:13 AM CDT
>>Scripters
1) Gonna Script.
2) Most dedicated scripters have alts and use the mechanic of tipping their alt to reduce coin count.
>>Mech Abuse
We can all agree that dumping coin on someone is mech abuse, and that for people that are into that kind of thing reporting could help treat isolated cases (except in TF, where the odds of them getting heard/seen are unlikely most of the time).
>>Other Stuff
But let's not detract from the point here. Coin weights, giving coin, and encumbrance from said coins are relics of an archaic system that hasn't been updated since the grahzir shattered. I'm pretty sure game designers just never stopped to think that someone would have over 100 plat, much less 100,000 plat and they definitely didn't design the game with PvP in mind.
When some gets their head out from underwater with HE, Magic Review, and all the other stuff going on, someone should take a look and fix either a) the weight, or b) the giving mechanic, or c) both.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
1) Gonna Script.
2) Most dedicated scripters have alts and use the mechanic of tipping their alt to reduce coin count.
>>Mech Abuse
We can all agree that dumping coin on someone is mech abuse, and that for people that are into that kind of thing reporting could help treat isolated cases (except in TF, where the odds of them getting heard/seen are unlikely most of the time).
>>Other Stuff
But let's not detract from the point here. Coin weights, giving coin, and encumbrance from said coins are relics of an archaic system that hasn't been updated since the grahzir shattered. I'm pretty sure game designers just never stopped to think that someone would have over 100 plat, much less 100,000 plat and they definitely didn't design the game with PvP in mind.
When some gets their head out from underwater with HE, Magic Review, and all the other stuff going on, someone should take a look and fix either a) the weight, or b) the giving mechanic, or c) both.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
JEZIKA
Re: Giving Money
09/05/2013 06:10 PM CDT
>>>The problem is I do think people will script much more if coins are lightened - Many scripters I see drop skins at their feet and ignore boxes when full, and only stop after getting so much coin weight.
The purpose of coins in the game is not to reduce scripting; that would be the role of script checks and the anti-scripting system. If something is broken, as you allude the anti-scripting system is, then this is no reason for another broken system to compensate.
Having said that, what makes you think that scripters stop because they get too much coin weight? It sounds like a simple thing to not pick up coin if you want to keep on scripting.
The purpose of coins in the game is not to reduce scripting; that would be the role of script checks and the anti-scripting system. If something is broken, as you allude the anti-scripting system is, then this is no reason for another broken system to compensate.
Having said that, what makes you think that scripters stop because they get too much coin weight? It sounds like a simple thing to not pick up coin if you want to keep on scripting.
JEZIKA
Re: Giving Money
09/05/2013 06:29 PM CDT
>>No it isn't realistic. In Dragonrealms, 100k coins weigh 2000 pounds.
This depends on what gives currency its value. The use of silver, gold and platinum as currency seems to indicate that it's the actual weight of the coin material that does this, as the properties of the materials make them otherwise unsuitable for making coins with.
The fact that 100K plats weigh less than 100K volumes of platinum is a good thing.
This depends on what gives currency its value. The use of silver, gold and platinum as currency seems to indicate that it's the actual weight of the coin material that does this, as the properties of the materials make them otherwise unsuitable for making coins with.
The fact that 100K plats weigh less than 100K volumes of platinum is a good thing.
TCOOL13
Re: Giving Money
09/05/2013 10:59 PM CDT
<<It sounds like a simple thing to not pick up coin if you want to keep on scripting.
Actually I do pick up all the coins, gems, skins, boxes. And my script automatically sells the gems pouches and skin bundles, deposits the coins and picks the boxes. Not to mention repairs my equipment and restocks ammo. Not to hard to add in so not really meant to be a script deterrence. More like an annoyance that can be abused.
I still think that give coin should be similar to tip and auto change to the highest currency and money should not weigh anything.
Waiting for results..................................................................................................................
Actually I do pick up all the coins, gems, skins, boxes. And my script automatically sells the gems pouches and skin bundles, deposits the coins and picks the boxes. Not to mention repairs my equipment and restocks ammo. Not to hard to add in so not really meant to be a script deterrence. More like an annoyance that can be abused.
I still think that give coin should be similar to tip and auto change to the highest currency and money should not weigh anything.
Waiting for results..................................................................................................................
NINEVAH1
Re: Giving Money
09/06/2013 05:46 AM CDT
>>The purpose of coins in the game is not to reduce scripting; that would be the role of script checks and the anti-scripting system. If something is broken, as you allude the anti-scripting system is, then this is no reason for another broken system to compensate.
There is no anti-scripting system, and script checks are not there to discourage scripting. There is an afk policy while scripting, and the script checks are there to make sure you are attentive to the game while scripting. The only way they really reduce scripting is with events.
There is no anti-scripting system, and script checks are not there to discourage scripting. There is an afk policy while scripting, and the script checks are there to make sure you are attentive to the game while scripting. The only way they really reduce scripting is with events.
SCHULTZS3
Re: Giving Money
09/06/2013 09:09 AM CDT
>The fact that 100K plats weigh less than 100K volumes of platinum is a good thing.
Well if you're making a sword with 6 volume of metal, clearly a "volume" is more than a single coin's mass of metal. Modern coinage is NOT worth the raw value of the metal, it's less, otherwise it'd be economical to just accumulate coins and melt them down for the base metal like *cough cough* tyrium statues *cough cough*.
I did look because of this topic, and interestingly, pennies have gotten far lighter over time, and the penny isn't exactly very heavy to begin with.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Well if you're making a sword with 6 volume of metal, clearly a "volume" is more than a single coin's mass of metal. Modern coinage is NOT worth the raw value of the metal, it's less, otherwise it'd be economical to just accumulate coins and melt them down for the base metal like *cough cough* tyrium statues *cough cough*.
I did look because of this topic, and interestingly, pennies have gotten far lighter over time, and the penny isn't exactly very heavy to begin with.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
ILLIENA
Re: Giving Money
09/06/2013 09:48 AM CDT
> Well if you're making a sword with 6 volume of metal, clearly a "volume" is more than a single coin's mass of metal.
Based on weights and densities, a volume is roughly 30 cubic centimeters.
Based on weights and densities, a volume is roughly 30 cubic centimeters.
