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>>i must be the only one who laughed at this
Don't worry, I laugh at my own jokes so you weren't.
FBC
ZILIC24
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/21/2010 07:04 PM CDT
Okay, so the general etiquette is then, in a popular hunting area, to not "hog" critters beyond the spawn rate. But as this is etiquette and not law, one is under no obligation to do such.
However, by demanding and then threatening someone about this, you lose any moral high-ground...<cough>...<EYGURLWASUP2>...<cough>...and are just one of the numerous persons acting like , or actually begin, a thirteen year old.
Thanks everyone for the input.
However, by demanding and then threatening someone about this, you lose any moral high-ground...<cough>...<EYGURLWASUP2>...<cough>...and are just one of the numerous persons acting like , or actually begin, a thirteen year old.
Thanks everyone for the input.
JULIAN
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 09:03 AM CDT
>>Okay, so the general etiquette is then, in a popular hunting area, to not "hog" critters beyond the spawn rate. But as this is etiquette and not law, one is under no obligation to do such.<<
It's worth pointing out that there's really nothing stopping someone from walking into your room and killing all the creatures except etiquette, either.
These conventions evolved to forestall conflicts over creatures. If you're not going to observe them there's no reason the other guy should either.
- Mazrian
The Flying Company
The Public Stat Data Project
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkqoUyrmvlKNdGlpeHZacEdldi1Ob2h3M1I5TXpCZVE&hl=en
It's worth pointing out that there's really nothing stopping someone from walking into your room and killing all the creatures except etiquette, either.
These conventions evolved to forestall conflicts over creatures. If you're not going to observe them there's no reason the other guy should either.
- Mazrian
The Flying Company
The Public Stat Data Project
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkqoUyrmvlKNdGlpeHZacEdldi1Ob2h3M1I5TXpCZVE&hl=en
ZILIC24
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 09:55 AM CDT
>>Okay, so the general etiquette is then, in a popular hunting area, to not "hog" critters beyond the spawn rate. But as this is etiquette and not law, one is under no obligation to do such.<<
>>It's worth pointing out that there's really nothing stopping someone from walking into your room and killing all the creatures except etiquette, either.<<
I would consider these two very different levels of etiquette. The first is much more passively (and to a lesser degree) hurting the hunting experience of others, and the person may be unaware of it. This is primarily a OOC mechanic issue of etiquette.
The second is very deliberately hurting someone hunt. This is almost the equivalent of property theft, and I feel should be a PVP-able offense, though I don't know if it is. This is very much so a IC issue.
>>It's worth pointing out that there's really nothing stopping someone from walking into your room and killing all the creatures except etiquette, either.<<
I would consider these two very different levels of etiquette. The first is much more passively (and to a lesser degree) hurting the hunting experience of others, and the person may be unaware of it. This is primarily a OOC mechanic issue of etiquette.
The second is very deliberately hurting someone hunt. This is almost the equivalent of property theft, and I feel should be a PVP-able offense, though I don't know if it is. This is very much so a IC issue.
JULIAN
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 10:05 AM CDT
>>I would consider these two very different levels of etiquette. The first is much more passively (and to a lesser degree) hurting the hunting experience of others, and the person may be unaware of it. This is primarily a OOC mechanic issue of etiquette.<<
Splitting that hair doesn't really get you anywhere. If someone has brought the issue to your attention and you decide to do nothing you are intentionally being impolite. At that point you are giving them permission to be impolite right back, because you must allow the unwritten rules to apply to you if you want them to benefit you also.
You'd certainly have consent to attack that person after they killed your creatures, but you wouldn't have any sort of moral high ground.
- Mazrian
The Flying Company
The Public Stat Data Project
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkqoUyrmvlKNdGlpeHZacEdldi1Ob2h3M1I5TXpCZVE&hl=en
Splitting that hair doesn't really get you anywhere. If someone has brought the issue to your attention and you decide to do nothing you are intentionally being impolite. At that point you are giving them permission to be impolite right back, because you must allow the unwritten rules to apply to you if you want them to benefit you also.
You'd certainly have consent to attack that person after they killed your creatures, but you wouldn't have any sort of moral high ground.
- Mazrian
The Flying Company
The Public Stat Data Project
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkqoUyrmvlKNdGlpeHZacEdldi1Ob2h3M1I5TXpCZVE&hl=en
ZILIC24
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 10:29 AM CDT
>> Splitting that hair doesn't really get you anywhere. <<
What is etiquette if not splitting hairs? But I agree, in general, to your assertions.
But one shouldn't expect anything from the hunter if you demand he/she stop hogging critters. That just gives the hunter all the more reason to defy etiquette, if for nothing more then out of spite.
What is etiquette if not splitting hairs? But I agree, in general, to your assertions.
But one shouldn't expect anything from the hunter if you demand he/she stop hogging critters. That just gives the hunter all the more reason to defy etiquette, if for nothing more then out of spite.
JMF90
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 10:47 AM CDT
You have to remember that, ICly, you're fighting off the invasion of evil and/or aggressive creatures that seek to kill the innocent. ICly, your character would be more likely to thank someone for their help. It's the OOC motivation of experience and the issue of script disruption that makes people not want to hunt together.
A "property theft" argument is kind of ridiculous. What do you own exactly? The exp bits? The opportunity to risk your life to kill something?
I don't really see a significant distinction between passive aggression and more overt displays. Back in the day, hunting together was the norm. It would be nice to see that again, and I hope that someday mechanics encourage it more.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
A "property theft" argument is kind of ridiculous. What do you own exactly? The exp bits? The opportunity to risk your life to kill something?
I don't really see a significant distinction between passive aggression and more overt displays. Back in the day, hunting together was the norm. It would be nice to see that again, and I hope that someday mechanics encourage it more.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
PBOMBARD
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 10:59 AM CDT
>I don't really see a significant distinction between passive aggression and more overt displays. Back in the day, hunting together was the norm. It would be nice to see that again, and I hope that someday mechanics encourage it more.
THIS.
I'd love to see mechanics go beyond encouraging it and actively support it.
Allowing lines of battle to be coordinated between melee and ranged attackers would go a long way to mitigate the coming engagement changes, for example.
-pete
THIS.
I'd love to see mechanics go beyond encouraging it and actively support it.
Allowing lines of battle to be coordinated between melee and ranged attackers would go a long way to mitigate the coming engagement changes, for example.
-pete
DANFORDS2
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 01:40 PM CDT
>you're fighting off the invasion of evil and/or aggressive creatures that seek to kill the innocent
That really depends entirely on the creature. In an invasion this is certainly true, but wild animals are hardly evil. The red brocket deer that were just released are an excellent example. Out in the middle of nowhere, the only reason they attack you is because they're defending their territory.
>A "property theft" argument is kind of ridiculous
Considering that's almost exactly how the policy states it... It's not that ridiculous. If someone kills creatures you have a "reasonable claim" on, it grants consent. If they're at melee, that's pretty obviously a reasonable claim.
>Back in the day, hunting together was the norm.
What day was that? I've been playing since the AOL days, and I don't really recall group hunting being all that much better. The only distinction between then and now is the community was smaller, so people knew each other better on average.
>It would be nice to see that again, and I hope that someday mechanics encourage it more
It would definitely be nice if the mechanics better supported this, especially considering how many abilities don't get used because group hunting currently sucks.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
That really depends entirely on the creature. In an invasion this is certainly true, but wild animals are hardly evil. The red brocket deer that were just released are an excellent example. Out in the middle of nowhere, the only reason they attack you is because they're defending their territory.
>A "property theft" argument is kind of ridiculous
Considering that's almost exactly how the policy states it... It's not that ridiculous. If someone kills creatures you have a "reasonable claim" on, it grants consent. If they're at melee, that's pretty obviously a reasonable claim.
>Back in the day, hunting together was the norm.
What day was that? I've been playing since the AOL days, and I don't really recall group hunting being all that much better. The only distinction between then and now is the community was smaller, so people knew each other better on average.
>It would be nice to see that again, and I hope that someday mechanics encourage it more
It would definitely be nice if the mechanics better supported this, especially considering how many abilities don't get used because group hunting currently sucks.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
JMF90
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 01:51 PM CDT
>>you're fighting off the invasion of evil and/or aggressive creatures that seek to kill the innocent
>That really depends entirely on the creature. In an invasion this is certainly true, but wild animals are hardly evil.
Yeah, that's why I said evil and/or aggressive. You can't argue that deer that randomly attack everyone that walk by aren't aggressive.
>>A "property theft" argument is kind of ridiculous
>Considering that's almost exactly how the policy states it...
I mean ICly. I don't care what policy says, I was talking about why it's only an OOC issue.
>>Back in the day, hunting together was the norm.
>What day was that?
Yeah, the AOL days. And it didn't mean we knew everyone. People were just more open to hunting. You stood there and you got to kill whatever happened to advance on you. If you never did this... well, you missed out.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
>That really depends entirely on the creature. In an invasion this is certainly true, but wild animals are hardly evil.
Yeah, that's why I said evil and/or aggressive. You can't argue that deer that randomly attack everyone that walk by aren't aggressive.
>>A "property theft" argument is kind of ridiculous
>Considering that's almost exactly how the policy states it...
I mean ICly. I don't care what policy says, I was talking about why it's only an OOC issue.
>>Back in the day, hunting together was the norm.
>What day was that?
Yeah, the AOL days. And it didn't mean we knew everyone. People were just more open to hunting. You stood there and you got to kill whatever happened to advance on you. If you never did this... well, you missed out.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
FBC
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 01:57 PM CDT
>>What day was that? I've been playing since the AOL days, and I don't really recall group hunting being all that much better. The only distinction between then and now is the community was smaller, so people knew each other better on average.
AOL days, as JMF said. Group hunting wasn't much better but it was done more often. Most notably in goblins out of the west gate when every room was full. People would often share rooms then.
AOL days, as JMF said. Group hunting wasn't much better but it was done more often. Most notably in goblins out of the west gate when every room was full. People would often share rooms then.
DANFORDS2
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 02:12 PM CDT
>You can't argue that deer that randomly attack everyone that walk by aren't aggressive.
I wasn't arguing that they weren't aggressive. But they certainly aren't seeking to kill the innocent.
>I mean ICly
Okay, so ICly you're hunting a dangerous animal/creature for the trophy or the glory. It's alot more "glorious" to say you stood toe to toe with four wild creatures out for your blood, than to say some guy came along and saved you. Fighting off the hoardes of evil, or protecting the innocents or whatever, is not the only IC interpretation of why people hunt.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
I wasn't arguing that they weren't aggressive. But they certainly aren't seeking to kill the innocent.
>I mean ICly
Okay, so ICly you're hunting a dangerous animal/creature for the trophy or the glory. It's alot more "glorious" to say you stood toe to toe with four wild creatures out for your blood, than to say some guy came along and saved you. Fighting off the hoardes of evil, or protecting the innocents or whatever, is not the only IC interpretation of why people hunt.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
BLAYD
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 02:13 PM CDT
I kind of miss those group hunting days, you could sit around and chat, then rush forward to kill whatever just entered the room. :)
Then again, we didn't get swarms of stuff back then like we do now (for the most part)
Hunting solo just seems so anti-social to me, especially late at night when nobody is around!
Then again, we didn't get swarms of stuff back then like we do now (for the most part)
Hunting solo just seems so anti-social to me, especially late at night when nobody is around!
MKIBBE1
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 02:17 PM CDT
I don't care why people kill things or how. I just know if someone is messing up the swarm in a hunting area then you go ask nicely, if no response kill their stuff, if they respond most of the time they won't be jerks about it and kill one or two to let the spawn be decent. It's just that 90% of the time this has happened with me it to an unresponsive person and I kill the critters for them to help everyone out. Deal with the consequences later if I have to. Half the time this has happened someone brings in an alt and kills my little guy, so i bring in my alt and kill the alt and the original guy.
DANFORDS2
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 02:22 PM CDT
>you go ask nicely
This is the rub. In the OP the person asking was not asking nicely.
>if no response kill their stuff
If they don't respond, you're probably off reporting them as potentially afk scripting. It's possible, however unlikely, that you could get in trouble for disrupting a check in progress. If they stop learning because you killed all their creatures, they could get off the hook.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
This is the rub. In the OP the person asking was not asking nicely.
>if no response kill their stuff
If they don't respond, you're probably off reporting them as potentially afk scripting. It's possible, however unlikely, that you could get in trouble for disrupting a check in progress. If they stop learning because you killed all their creatures, they could get off the hook.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
JMF90
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 02:24 PM CDT
Just curious Opieus, has this issue ever come up for you personally?
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
DANFORDS2
Re: Multi-beastie hunting
04/22/2010 02:38 PM CDT
>Just curious Opieus, has this issue ever come up for you personally?
Only once or twice. When I couldn't find spawn, I just went and trained things elsewhere. I don't bother to ask people to change their hunting routine. I also don't dance with creatures, so I've never been asked not to hog the spawn.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Only once or twice. When I couldn't find spawn, I just went and trained things elsewhere. I don't bother to ask people to change their hunting routine. I also don't dance with creatures, so I've never been asked not to hog the spawn.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
