La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 09:12 AM CDT
Oolan,

I assume reflex is going to be the main stat component on the check. Are other stats involved?


Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
<Conskill> You're like an Empath, but with a drug dependancy.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 09:33 AM CDT
Agility.

GM Oolan Jeel

"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 09:37 AM CDT
Thanks. Between my base reflex/agi and Benediction I'm not too concerned.


Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
<Conskill> You're like an Empath, but with a drug dependancy.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 07:37 PM CDT
i had always mainly used the areas for training ranged. will those weapons be effected by this change?



"Word on the street is, ya been lookin' out for the best interests of the Guild."
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 09:10 PM CDT
Mind taking a look at the stats necessary for the thunder ram area? My 16th circle Paladin with 14 agility/13 reflex seems to take a balance hit for every attack in my combo (parry-feint-draw-sweep-slice-chop). I rarely get to nimbly and have never gotten to incredibly balanced, and have fallen quite a few times (although probably slightly less than before). He's right in the wheelhouse for thunder rams, so the area doesn't seem to have become "friendlier for melee combat" if that was the intent.

Thanks.

~Thilan
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 09:22 PM CDT
I personally think there is something wrong with the la'heke area now, with 36 agility and 30 reflex i fall about one and a half combo's each time, i am using parry, fient, draw, sweep, slice, chop. This is with an LE outcast Katar.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 09:47 PM CDT
Can those of you posting in complaint please include your agility and skill in the weapon you are using at the time? I need to know how you compare to the target that was set in order to judge how the mechanics are working in general.

GM Oolan Jeel

"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 10:26 PM CDT
<<Can those of you posting in complaint please include your agility and skill in the weapon you are using at the time? I need to know how you compare to the target that was set in order to judge how the mechanics are working in general.

Agility: 14
Heavy Edged: 57 55% mind lock


~Thilan
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 10:43 PM CDT
In la'heke I'm getting the "You find it hard to maintain your footing." message with nearly every attack. I'm falling down roughly every five attacks (somtimes I fall down on my first attack, get up and fall again) but then I'll have strings up to about 8 before I fall again.



Heavy Edged: 208 13% very muddled
Agility : 30

You are certain that it is about as agile as you are.
You are certain that it is somewhat less quick to react than you are.
You are certain that it is about as strong as you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with a bastard sword and wearing a crocodile-skin buckler, you are certain that the ochre la'heke is a slightly less skilled opponent.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with a bastard sword, you are certain that the ochre la'heke is a relatively easy opponent.

-Serc

"Moon Mages have already been given some of the most ridiculously powerful magic in the game, third only to Warrior Mages and Barbarians" -Armifer
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 11:18 PM CDT
Sure


Strength : 30 Reflex : 30
Agility : 36 Charisma : 30
Discipline : 30 Wisdom : 30
Intelligence : 30 Stamina : 30


Shield Usage: 107 54% perplexed Leather Armor: 208 30% bewildering
Cloth Armor: 34 63% perplexing Parry Ability: 222 80% very muddled
Multi Opponent: 180 15% muddled Light Edged: 232 96% thoughtful
Light Crossbow: 116 67% pondering Evasion: 259 87% muddled
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/02/2007 11:56 PM CDT
Oolan,

I'm suffering balance hits most swings in la'heke with the occasional fall.

Reflex 37 (I believe with the Benediction boost I keep up it's effectively 46), 34 agility. Large Blunt weapon, 214 ranks.

Additionally, I note that if you use one of the attack commands when an enemy isn't in range you'll still suffer a balance hit (and yes, you can fall over from such):

>bash
You find it hard to maintain your footing.
You aren't close enough to attack.
>bash
You find it hard to maintain your footing.
You aren't close enough to attack.
>bash
You aren't close enough to attack.
>
You regain your balance.
>bash
You find it hard to maintain your footing.
You aren't close enough to attack.
>bash
You find it hard to maintain your footing.
You aren't close enough to attack.


Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
<Conskill> You're like an Empath, but with a drug dependancy.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/03/2007 06:03 PM CDT
Agility : 40
Heavy Edge: 400 +


feint, draw, sweep, slice, chop

Went from nimbly balanced down to very badly balanced.
Casted TR to get back up to nimbly.

Second round I got to sweep before I fell over.


If you want I can post entire combat log, but with those stats and weapon skills its kinda nuts for La'Heke area.


I was initially using a weapon at 150 ranks but was falling almost every 2-4 attacks even though I was hitting them so I decided to see what my main weapon would look like. Kinda scary as it is right now for people hunting at level with them.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/03/2007 09:12 PM CDT
<<Ellsdragon

Well that pretty much settles it...


-Sephos
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/04/2007 09:40 AM CDT
>>Well that pretty much settles it...

I thought it was because I was using a weapon at the bare min ranks in there, but when I switched to HE I kinda shuddered, took another drink, then said back to hatchlings to train other weapons.

I was going to bug it but saw this thread. I feel bad for anyone who is actually training at level in there or does not have the defenses already. This is one area which I've been telling people to stay away from on Ratha as the decks appeared to have been greased and to try again later.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/04/2007 10:02 AM CDT
I'm hunting in there at level and it's still quite doable, even when I fall down while taking out that 4th la'heke. It's a little bit more dangerous, but there's no roundtime for falling so you can stand up immediately. I do feel the area needs to be tweaked somewhat, but it's still great training.

If you have balance boosting spells/abilities, use them.


Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
<Conskill> You're like an Empath, but with a drug dependancy.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/04/2007 11:59 AM CDT
I don't really consider dancing with four hunting at level, though I might have a skewed view on how long people milk creatures due to my Prefrence for being able to train TM (Primary) and Melee defenses and offenses(tert) on the same creature.

La'heke soft cap somewhere around 280 as far as I can tell and I'd say somone with high 100's to low 200's is hunting at level in the area because the app begins to be more favorable to the hunter in that range.

I've posted my Weapon skill and agility, wich were the factors the GM asked for as well as the apprasial of the creature which in my view puts me in the "At level" if not a little bit above Range with them.

After a few attacks my blance is totaly tanked and stays that way untill I fall down. I fall rather more often than what in my view would make the area still a good option for hunting. I'm not against having to fall down now and then, or having trouble keeping balance. It makes the area intresting and fun. I just think the penalty is still a little much for my character who outclasses the la'heke and I would hate to be a new character just entering the area in their training window.


-Serc

"Moon Mages have already been given some of the most ridiculously powerful magic in the game, third only to Warrior Mages and Barbarians" -Armifer
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/04/2007 12:45 PM CDT
>>I don't really consider dancing with four hunting at level, though I might have a skewed view on how long people milk creatures due to my Prefrence for being able to train TM (Primary) and Melee defenses and offenses(tert) on the same creature.

That's reasonable. I should clarify that I don't dance with four, I dance with three (facing/flanking/back), but I can take the time to melee one to death when a fourth comes into the room/advances. If I was to put two at back and one facing, I'd be taking regular hits.

This is fully buffed up with defenses around the 210-220 mark rankwise, so I'm certainly not a week away from capping them out. Given the Cleric defensive skillset I've got a ways to go here.

Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
<Conskill> You're like an Empath, but with a drug dependancy.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/04/2007 09:45 PM CDT
I am listening to what you guys are saying and will tweak it in the next day or two. I'm sorry for the delay here, but work got me a bit worn out the last few days and I haven't been around much due to that. It is intended that it be hard to maintain balance. However bad balance won't cause you to fall sooner. In the previous version of the mechanics there was anywhere from a 20-50% chance to fall on your face regardless of skill and dependant only on the move you chose. That has been replaced and in relation made less severe. I want to make the area huntable, but at the same time the intent has always been that melee should be at a dis-advantage. The use of the attack verb simply allowed people to circumvent that restriction in the past.

GM Oolan Jeel

"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/05/2007 11:26 AM CDT
OOLAN

I think so far the posts have been made with that understanding. We're just trying to help get it into that sweet "working as intended" spot. My assessment of the area wasn't so much of a complaint as a result. I would love to beable to continue training melee in La'heke, even if I have to fall down now and then. Would just like a little less of the now fall downs.


-Serc


"Moon Mages have already been given some of the most ridiculously powerful magic in the game, third only to Warrior Mages and Barbarians" -Armifer
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/06/2007 05:00 AM CDT
I do understand and appreciate the feedback on the area. I just wanted to make sure you understood the intent of the area. I've reduced the requirements all around so it should be a bit friendlier.

GM Oolan Jeel

"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/06/2007 05:04 PM CDT
>>I do understand and appreciate the feedback on the area. I just wanted to make sure you understood the intent of the area. I've reduced the requirements all around so it should be a bit friendlier.

I've certainly noticed less slippage/smaller balance hits today. Much more reasonable.

Thanks for keeping an eye on things.


Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
<Conskill> You're like an Empath, but with a drug dependancy.
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Re: La'heke and Thunder Rams 04/06/2007 07:55 PM CDT
I have already adapted my hunting style for La'heke to train LX as i hit a third one. Thanks for looking into the situation.
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