<<Give me one movie EVER who did even half the new things that Reloaded did.>>

Howsabout you list the new things that Reloaded did, since you've never even attempted to do so.

Drongol's Player

>>I'm looking forward to ROTK, however the main downfall to Return of the King is that you already know the ending

Speak for yourself, but thank you for not sayin what it is. The hardest part about being one of the 0.1% of the people on the planet who hasn't read the books is everyone around assuming you have and ruining various parts of the plot in passing converstaions. :(

>>The Lord of the Rings did nothing at all that was special in it's action scenes. Not one thing.

Not really fair though since LoTR isn't really an action movie like Matrix.

-Ranik

<<I am too lazy to list them, but they are not "hidden" or difficult to find.>>

That's amazing, because I did not see much that was terrifically "new" about Reloaded. Furthermore, the burden of proof does not fall upon the doubting party.

<<But for a very, VERY, brief overview of some of the amazing things that Reloaded did, watch all the special features on the DVD.>>

This would involve wasting the money on either purchasing or renting the DVD. I have absolutely no desire to watch that movie ever again, so I see no reason to spend my money on an argument which you have yet to prove.

One thing to remember: special effects do not remove the necessity for good acting, good screenwriting, and an interesting story.

Drongol's Player

>>Mozzik>>though I still have to argue unless in Revelations they give a MUCH better reason for keeping humans around, that's a giant plot hole as the humans would never be an efficent energy source, returning far less then would have to be invested to maintain then, and being FAR less efficent then the fusion power they admit they have as well

That's easy, if the writers did any research.

You ever visit one of those websites that ask you to "donate" your extra processing power to help solve a datacrunching problem, such as for SETI, AIDS research or a number of other projects? Basically these places use your computer's unused resources to crunch numbers and via the internet they expand their own processing power without adding a single piece of equipment, thanks to volunteers.

Now add in the fact that the average human, during their lifetime, uses less than 10% of their full brain function or capacity. In fact IIRC it was the best of the best that might use 10-12%, average was closer to 5-6%. Something along the lines of if we used 100% of our capacity we would have total recall of memory, be able to learn and fluently speak 30+ languages (including idioms, slang, regional usage) by simply hearing it spoken once, possibly even ESP or telekinetic power. Imagine just reading a set of books and in less than a year absorbing more knowledge than most people do now going from kindergarten to high school graduate.

And all of those resources lie in waste. A smart machine would put it to use and the connection of all those human brains would make for a very powerful supercomputer. They are the core of the Matrix. Take out the humans, you don't just take out a heat source and the "players" of the game (active mind means getting more heat/bioelectricity, but an active mind has to be distracted lest it figure out what's happening to its body), you take out the Matrix itself becuase it would no longer have the processing center that runs it.

Just my theory, who knows what the writers thought of. ;-)

~~~Krin
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Goblins ... aisle 6, Mycthengelde ... hunt smart, hunt S-Mart!"
"You whine like a mule ... you are still alive!"

>Drongol>Yep, they made a fight scene so darned boring that I nearly fell asleep. I mean, come on, spending ten minutes fighting a bazillion Agent Smiths didn't exactly do anything for me.

What about a bazillion Agent Smith's in string bikinis?

Finding Nemo Rocks!

Raydell

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You have 2669 total ranks.

<< And just because it appears as a fistfight to us (it's a human representation ... in reality, all those people are floating in tanks, the "real" world doesn't exist to them) what was actually happening was two sections of code electronically battling for dominance.>>

And in the first movie, when Neo dove into Smith, that was..?

Drongol's Player

Of course there is zero indication this has been done to the people in the matrix, and had it been done you would assume there would be some side effects, or at least a show of hightened intellect or some such, but none of that is apparent. Also I'm rather sure you could fine a far more effective data system them the human brain, even with technology that we're on the brink of today let alone what the machines have developed by that point. While it's another way to look at it the only one presented in the heat = power argument, and that's just bogus. You're going to get a less then 100% return in power, giving you a net loss. Anyone with a little science background should be able to understand why this isn't possible, you can't just create energy, and humans need energy to survive, which the machines are having to provide. This is why all fuel sources consume something to boost their energy return over the initial investment, but unless you're combusting babies (so you need never provide food or anything for them... except whoops, you have to grow them into a baby first so even then it won't work). I suppose if you were raising babies and THEN somehow getting a fusion reaction going with the baby you might end up with a net energy gain...

-Mozzik

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Talian says, "Looks like I'm a... gypsy at the moment I think."
Talian whispers, "Because gypsies really are the best."

>Anyone with a little science background should be able to understand why this isn't possible, you can't just create energy, and humans need energy to survive, which the machines are having to provide.

One way they could explain this (although obviously they don't) is to claim that the machines have large stores of energy which humans can use, but machines cannot - and the humans are just converting the energy into a form usable by the machines. So say the machines could grow large amounts of food (since apparently the humans in Zion have no problem producing food from nowhere), but that the machines cannot digest food (which is a logical assumption). Then by keeping humans around in the Matrix, they are able to keep converting the chemical potential energy stored in the food into thermal energy which they can use (and even though the process is very inefficient, it is better than nothing).

Apu

<<A direct assault on Smith's source code.>>

Which he could not do when he was confronted again with Smith, or when he met the Architect, or when he was attempting to get the Keymaker, etc., etc.?

Drongol's Player

>>Mozzik>>Of course there is zero indication this has been done to the people in the matrix

There's been zero indication of a LOT of things in the Matrix. For one, we have never seen it's central mainframe, or even if it has one or if they rely on a Borg-like communal intelligence. It's an entire separate world for the most part and there's only so much you can tell about it in one movie without either overloading the audience with information or confusing them with insufficient information because you had to give each piece only a cursory look before moving on to the next.

>>Mozzik>>or at least a show of hightened intellect or some such,

Oh? Why? Does running the SETI assistance program on your PC increase your CPU clock speed, memory size or enashnce your operating system? Newp, just uses resources you weren't using and has no effect on the rest of the system. The sections of code are alien to your operating system and do nothing to enhance it.

If anything, there would be a chance of problems, as the brain might attempt to access a portion of the brain the matrix was using at the time and cause the mental equivalent to a crash. But then, seeing as how the machines had total control over the reproduction process and even the embryos had implants already in them, I wouldn't doubt the machines did a bit of genetic engineering to help prevent that as well.

~~~Krin
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Goblins ... aisle 6, Mycthengelde ... hunt smart, hunt S-Mart!"
"You whine like a mule ... you are still alive!"

>Unfortunately they say the machines are feeding the dead to the living like we can be made into some kind of perpetual motion machine.

Yeah, they do say that, but do they actually say that this is the ONLY thing they're feeding the humans in the matrix? If I remember right, they just mention that the machines liquify the dead and feed them to the living (which be a logical move for the machines), but I don't remember them saying anything that would contradict the possibility that they were also being fed food or some sort but they just didn't bother mentioning it in the movie because it didn't have as much shock value

Apu

I have no unused resources. They're mine. You can't have them. <raspberry SETI>

Steel.

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YOU HAVE <insert ability here>!! YOU ARE OVERPOWERED!! DIE GUILD DIE!!!

It has a dragonrealms section so I can spam it! Go me!
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/steelflash

<<That was possibly the best plot twist that anyone has EVER put in a movie EVER because unless you really really watched the movie well, you're left with no clue at all as to how that happened.>>

<And here is where you lose all credibility for any of your points, I'm afraid.

<Drongol's Player

So true... so true.

-Mozzik

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Talian says, "Looks like I'm a... gypsy at the moment I think."
Talian whispers, "Because gypsies really are the best."

>>Teeklin>>When he was confronted a second time with Agent Smith, Smith was no longer connected or a part of the Matrix.

Ah, didn't think of that, it works. Same would apply to the ghost brothers and several other key players. Even the replicated Smiths, since part of the replication could very well involve severing their tie to the Matrix itself.

Would have to see how Neo handles true Matrix constructs such as some of the other Agents pre-infection by Smith. <ponders> Come to think of it, there is a problem there ... the door to the Architect is a Matrix construct, why would he need the Keymaster to get in? Couldn't he just eliminate the door?

But then, I guess that opens other concepts ... the door is just a mental image of the actual code, would eliminating the door be equivalent to erasing a section of core code that cause the Matrix itself to suffer. Even without the Matrix, the machines themselves still exist and unless they get more of the humans unplugged and bolster their numbers, uit's likely they'd get wiped out again anyway. Can't crash the Matrix too soon, they'd be killing themselves.

So don't eliminate the door ... but he should find a way to pass through it now that he knows where it is.

>>Steel>>And yet he was capable of being in the matrix, not to mention "replicating" his code.

Just like Neo, the Oracle and the Keymaster. Neo is the projection of an external intelligence, the latter two are free-floating code that exist in the Matrix but aren't tied to it (if they were, then why would the Agents go through so much trouble to take them out, when they could simply morph into them like they do any of the "normal" people in the Matrix?). Which sounds like what Smith has become. As for replicating ... Neo could affect Matrix code, Smith could do the same. Two different methods ... Neo dominates and rewrites, Smith overwrites using his own code (sounds like he has become the virus he accused humans of being in the first movie) ... but with similar result. And having originally been a Matrix construct himself, Smith would have the connections (pardon the pun) to do it.

Which brings me back to the door. Perhaps that is what stops him ... maybe the Architect was smart enough to make his entire office a section of code residing as a separate entity, not unlike rogue programs such as the Keymaker or the Zion projections into the Matrix? That would make his door and office immune to Neo's power as they aren't part of the Matrix but they aren't "real" either.

>>Mozzik>>Yah know there are really only three explinations for how he used his "super powers" outside the matrix...

Actually, you forgot one.

Perhaps Neo is of such a controlled mind where within the matrix this control allows him control over the Matrix itself ... in the real world it results in such things as ESP, telekenesis, etc. Such things are theoretically possible and in this case perhaps they are linked. Not by his Matrix ability but by what gives him that ability ... his own mind.

Consider this: in setting the humans up for a fall, the machines allow the creation of The One. What they didn't account for was the possibility of opening up long-forgotten power within the human mind that noone, human or machine, knew of or understands.

And now we see if that mistake costs the machines the whole enchilada and the world goes back to the humans. That's what they get for contracting their operating system to MicroSoft (under new robotic management, a cyborg imitation of Bill Gates), hate it when those latent bugs rear their ugly heads. <smirk>

Ah, this is why I enjoy the movie ... I LOVE a movie that makes me THINK ...

~~~Krin
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Goblins ... aisle 6, Mycthengelde ... hunt smart, hunt S-Mart!"
"You whine like a mule ... you are still alive!"

>Perhaps Neo is of such a controlled mind where within the matrix this control allows him control over the Matrix itself ... in the real world it results in such things as ESP, telekenesis, etc. Such things are theoretically possible and in this case perhaps they are linked. Not by his Matrix ability but by what gives him that ability ... his own mind.

I'm rather sure that would fall under a varient of "Grown so powerful he can now for whatever reason use superpowers outside the Matrix".

-Mozzik

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Talian says, "Looks like I'm a... gypsy at the moment I think."
Talian whispers, "Because gypsies really are the best."

>>Steel>>And yet he was capable of being in the matrix, not to mention "replicating" his code.

I never said this, did I?

Steel.

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YOU HAVE <insert ability here>!! YOU ARE OVERPOWERED!! DIE GUILD DIE!!!

It has a dragonrealms section so I can spam it! Go me!
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/steelflash