Previous
Edit: Actually... Ideally I would like those same options but with the following names:
FACE FLANK has the same function as FACE NEXT does now. I.e. swapping facing and flanking creatures.
FACE NEXT is changed to have the FACE CYCLE function as above. I.e. a true tab targeting that cycles through all engaged mobs.
FACE BEHIND as outlined above.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
ABSOLON
SHAWN255
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 05:07 AM CDT
hehe I wouldn't mind those options either.
But in the context of the conversation... tab targeting is basically FACE NEXT..
But in the context of the conversation... tab targeting is basically FACE NEXT..
ABSOLON
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 05:25 AM CDT
<<tab targeting is basically FACE NEXT..
Yup! I think some FE's might even let you macro it to TAB if you want... If not that key, then another for sure.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Yup! I think some FE's might even let you macro it to TAB if you want... If not that key, then another for sure.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 06:00 AM CDT
The bickering needs to stop. Everyone is allowed their own opinion even if you do not agree with them.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 06:07 AM CDT
DR doesn't really have a targeting system - or more accurately it targets on a per attack basis rather than having a pre-selected target. If you don't specify which creature/person you want to attack it will default to whichever one you are facing, but you do not have to be facing something in order to attack it. EVE didn't have tab targeting either, btw - it had a very different sort of targeting system where you'd have multiple targets at a time and select which ones you wanted to train which specific abilities on. EVE's combat system was never its strong suit, though.
It's not just tab-targeting, but the whole combat system that's based around tab targeting. Tab to your target, go through your rotation (usually pressing the number keys to use abilities.) These games also almost universally base most of your characters stats on what gear you have equipped - allowing game design that relies heavily on extrinsic motivation as opposed to intrinsic motivation (carrot on a stick, anyone?) I could go on and on, but we're getting way off topic here.
And I've already beaten the Quests in DR horse to death in the Quest survey thread from a few weeks ago, but I'll answer your question again here since you asked - no, I haven't done any quests in DR. I haven't really seen the appeal. I may run one someday, if I can talk my friends into it, just to see first hand what's going on with them, but I don't have particularly high hopes. And screw it, while we're off topic, anyone got a recommendation on which quest to run if/when I do? Looking through the blurbs on the website, Kanton's Dagger sounds the most interesting, but I don't see a whole lot of context around any of them.
It's not just tab-targeting, but the whole combat system that's based around tab targeting. Tab to your target, go through your rotation (usually pressing the number keys to use abilities.) These games also almost universally base most of your characters stats on what gear you have equipped - allowing game design that relies heavily on extrinsic motivation as opposed to intrinsic motivation (carrot on a stick, anyone?) I could go on and on, but we're getting way off topic here.
And I've already beaten the Quests in DR horse to death in the Quest survey thread from a few weeks ago, but I'll answer your question again here since you asked - no, I haven't done any quests in DR. I haven't really seen the appeal. I may run one someday, if I can talk my friends into it, just to see first hand what's going on with them, but I don't have particularly high hopes. And screw it, while we're off topic, anyone got a recommendation on which quest to run if/when I do? Looking through the blurbs on the website, Kanton's Dagger sounds the most interesting, but I don't see a whole lot of context around any of them.
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 06:16 AM CDT
Oh, and no, I very seldom use face next. Usually only when I'm too tired/disinterested to be paying much attention. When I use the FACE command, my go-to is to FACE first/second/third/etc <creature>.
ABSOLON
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 06:27 AM CDT
<<DR doesn't really have a targeting system - or more accurately it targets on a per attack basis rather than having a pre-selected target. If you don't specify which creature/person you want to attack it will default to whichever one you are facing, but you do not have to be facing something in order to attack it.
You just described almost every tab-targeting system in triple-A graphical MMOs, just substitute the word facing for targeting. If you don't have a creature targeted then your ability will default to whatever is closest in front of you. You don't have to have something targeted to attack (although there's often an option to turn this auto-target on and off.) Facing = targeted and is just a difference in choice of word much like guild vs. class, circle vs. level, etc.
<<It's not just tab-targeting, but the whole combat system that's based around tab targeting. Tab to your target, go through your rotation (usually pressing the number keys to use abilities.)
Tab targeting has nothing whatsoever to do with an ability rotation. If that were the case, then any form of targeting system is also part and parcel of a rotation since all tab targeting is is a method to select a target. Games exist that have both tab targeting and rotation, those that only have one or the other, and games that have neither.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
You just described almost every tab-targeting system in triple-A graphical MMOs, just substitute the word facing for targeting. If you don't have a creature targeted then your ability will default to whatever is closest in front of you. You don't have to have something targeted to attack (although there's often an option to turn this auto-target on and off.) Facing = targeted and is just a difference in choice of word much like guild vs. class, circle vs. level, etc.
<<It's not just tab-targeting, but the whole combat system that's based around tab targeting. Tab to your target, go through your rotation (usually pressing the number keys to use abilities.)
Tab targeting has nothing whatsoever to do with an ability rotation. If that were the case, then any form of targeting system is also part and parcel of a rotation since all tab targeting is is a method to select a target. Games exist that have both tab targeting and rotation, those that only have one or the other, and games that have neither.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 06:39 AM CDT
<You just described almost every tab-targeting system in triple-A graphical MMOs, just substitute the word facing for targeting. If you don't have a creature targeted then your ability will default to whatever is closest in front of you. You don't have to have something targeted to attack (although there's often an option to turn this auto-target on and off.) Facing = targeted and is just a difference in choice of word much like guild vs. class, circle vs. level, etc.
By this logic, in WoW whatever is closest to you is always targeted. But this is not the case. It isn't targeted until you try to do an attack. And then you can't attack anything else until you change targets. In DR I can be facing a goblin, have two goblins on my flanks and one behind me, and attack the goblin behind me without "un-targeting" (it's totally not targeted) the one I'm facing.
<Games exist that have both tab targeting and rotation, those that only have one or the other, and games that have neither.
Only games I can think of that have target cycling buttons but also do not have hotbar style abilities with cooldowns are things like TIE Fighter (or any space/flight sim) or the old Mech Warrior games. And in those games you are free to shoot at things that you don't have targeted, it's really not at all the same sort of targeting system. And the only games I can think of that have hotbar style abilities with cooldowns that don't have tab targeting are the newer MMOs like Tera or Neverwinter that are experimenting with mouse-based aiming (I prefer this style of targeting.) Did I miss some games somewhere? (Note: there are plenty that have neither ... it's almost certain that the majority have neither, actually.)
By this logic, in WoW whatever is closest to you is always targeted. But this is not the case. It isn't targeted until you try to do an attack. And then you can't attack anything else until you change targets. In DR I can be facing a goblin, have two goblins on my flanks and one behind me, and attack the goblin behind me without "un-targeting" (it's totally not targeted) the one I'm facing.
<Games exist that have both tab targeting and rotation, those that only have one or the other, and games that have neither.
Only games I can think of that have target cycling buttons but also do not have hotbar style abilities with cooldowns are things like TIE Fighter (or any space/flight sim) or the old Mech Warrior games. And in those games you are free to shoot at things that you don't have targeted, it's really not at all the same sort of targeting system. And the only games I can think of that have hotbar style abilities with cooldowns that don't have tab targeting are the newer MMOs like Tera or Neverwinter that are experimenting with mouse-based aiming (I prefer this style of targeting.) Did I miss some games somewhere? (Note: there are plenty that have neither ... it's almost certain that the majority have neither, actually.)
SHAWN255
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 06:50 AM CDT
Pretty much.. tab targeting is just like facing a creature in DR and then attacking it.. either with ATTACK or with some sort of combo. You could macro the commands to numbers and make it exactly like WoW if you wanted to.
Anyways.. Some of the things that you have complained about are just as prevalent in DR as they are in graphical MMOs. If you want an MMO that is slightly different.. and has cool story lines and a slightly different combat system.. you might try Secret World... the storylines are worth the cost of the game alone.. and while it has dungeons you don't have to do them -- though they all add to the story. And wildstar isn't bad either.. it is like WoW.. but different too.. very cartoony. I actually really enjoyed Tabula Rasa.. but sadly that shut down :(
>>The bickering needs to stop. Everyone is allowed their own opinion even if you do not agree with them.
I didn't think we were bickering.. it has been an interesting conversation. but as you said everyone has their own opinion.
>>And screw it, while we're off topic, anyone got a recommendation on which quest to run if/when I do?
I really enjoyed the Beyond the Barrier quest. It isn't too long.. you have pretty good chances of completion even if you don't know it.. The story itself is pretty fun. But then most of the quests are interesting for the story. probably the 3 that are light on story are the Safari, and the two riot quests.
Anyways.. Some of the things that you have complained about are just as prevalent in DR as they are in graphical MMOs. If you want an MMO that is slightly different.. and has cool story lines and a slightly different combat system.. you might try Secret World... the storylines are worth the cost of the game alone.. and while it has dungeons you don't have to do them -- though they all add to the story. And wildstar isn't bad either.. it is like WoW.. but different too.. very cartoony. I actually really enjoyed Tabula Rasa.. but sadly that shut down :(
>>The bickering needs to stop. Everyone is allowed their own opinion even if you do not agree with them.
I didn't think we were bickering.. it has been an interesting conversation. but as you said everyone has their own opinion.
>>And screw it, while we're off topic, anyone got a recommendation on which quest to run if/when I do?
I really enjoyed the Beyond the Barrier quest. It isn't too long.. you have pretty good chances of completion even if you don't know it.. The story itself is pretty fun. But then most of the quests are interesting for the story. probably the 3 that are light on story are the Safari, and the two riot quests.
SHAWN255
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 06:53 AM CDT
>>Only games I can think of that have target cycling buttons but also do not have hotbar style abilities with cooldowns are things like TIE Fighter (or any space/flight sim) or the old Mech Warrior games. And in those games you are free to shoot at things that you don't have targeted, it's really not at all the same sort of targeting system. And the only games I can think of that have hotbar style abilities with cooldowns that don't have tab targeting are the newer MMOs like Tera or Neverwinter that are experimenting with mouse-based aiming (I prefer this style of targeting.) Did I miss some games somewhere? (Note: there are plenty that have neither ... it's almost certain that the majority have neither, actually.)
Wildstar will let you attack whatever. You actually don't have to target what you are attacking. all the attacks have a cone infront of them or around the caster. So like a stalker.. can just randomly claw the area infront of it.. and if something is there.. it will take damage. (which means you have to be careful about pulls lol)
Tabula Rasa was also that way.. but that game is gone. :(
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 07:19 AM CDT
<Some of the things that you have complained about are just as prevalent in DR as they are in graphical MMOs.
This is true to a degree, and it makes me sadface emoticon. :( DR at its worst is still many steps better than games like WoW, though, imo. Maybe it's just my own set of rose-colored glasses skewing my perception ... but I hope not.
I played Secret World for a little bit, and I have to say that I did rather enjoy the writing and art. The creative content team did a good job with that one (or maybe I'm just a huge X-Files buff that likes video games, and is therefore closish to their target market.) The gameplay, once again, was the big turn off for me, for similar reasons to every other graphical MMORPG.
I'll give Beyond the Barrier a shot. My besties actually play Prydaen and Rakash (curse them!*) so for lore wonkery it might make it easier to convince them.
*I don't have any particular problems with anthropomorphic races in general - just distasteful ones. Like ones that are cuddley and bat at dangling bits of yarn, or ones that butcher one of my favorite greek myths by turning it into a race of tree-hugging badly-stereotyped native-americans. I actually love S'kra Mur, and Rakash are alright(ish) too. Take mermaids for instance - there's the folklore sort who'll eat you alive, and then there's Disney's The Little Mermaid. One is pretty awesome, the other is a travesty. Certain things, like cat-people, are really really hard to do tastefully.
This is true to a degree, and it makes me sadface emoticon. :( DR at its worst is still many steps better than games like WoW, though, imo. Maybe it's just my own set of rose-colored glasses skewing my perception ... but I hope not.
I played Secret World for a little bit, and I have to say that I did rather enjoy the writing and art. The creative content team did a good job with that one (or maybe I'm just a huge X-Files buff that likes video games, and is therefore closish to their target market.) The gameplay, once again, was the big turn off for me, for similar reasons to every other graphical MMORPG.
I'll give Beyond the Barrier a shot. My besties actually play Prydaen and Rakash (curse them!*) so for lore wonkery it might make it easier to convince them.
*I don't have any particular problems with anthropomorphic races in general - just distasteful ones. Like ones that are cuddley and bat at dangling bits of yarn, or ones that butcher one of my favorite greek myths by turning it into a race of tree-hugging badly-stereotyped native-americans. I actually love S'kra Mur, and Rakash are alright(ish) too. Take mermaids for instance - there's the folklore sort who'll eat you alive, and then there's Disney's The Little Mermaid. One is pretty awesome, the other is a travesty. Certain things, like cat-people, are really really hard to do tastefully.
ORBITAL303
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 08:00 AM CDT
It sounds like rose colored glasses to me mostly. DR has incorporated a lot of modern gaming features, and IMO has become a better game for it. It is one thing to yearn for the days of permadeath, equipment breakage, and weapon combos (which I don't agree with at all but could understand someone missing because it WAS different) but to claim DR is wildly mechanically different from other games (outside of, you know, BEING TEXT) is IMO inaccurate primarily due to the fact that so many people script everything. A great example is the crafting system - it is amazing and in-depth and has so many variables - and most players have distilled it down to >.craft broadsword. How is this different from opening up a GUI menu and picking an item to make and pressing "craft"? I am less invested in mass producing stuff in crafting (and therefore my prestige sucks) because I want it to be a roleplay interaction for me, so I discuss every item I make with its buyer and make it by hand in front of them. I will concede that DR gives you the OPTION of more depth by avoiding scripts, but I expect that those who choose it are the minority.
Quests these days basically are like dungeons in a MMO. My understanding is that in the days there needed to be a GM around in order for quests to be run, it was mostly because they were not set up to be automated. I think the ability to run quests for equipment upgrades keeps people invested in the game and getting better or cooler looking gear, and I think it is a good thing. I can understand not wanting to repeatedly run quests for loot but really that doesn't seem to be going away so I don't see a sense of being irritated by it since nobody is forcing you to run the quests. Some (maybe all? I haven't done all of them) of the quests have different objectives and puzzles each time too, which adds replay value.
Being able to attack something you aren't facing exists in other games, Wildstar and Diablo being two mainstream examples.
It is fine to dislike certain mechanics and stuff but it almost feels like you are being a hipster about it and just hating on things that are mainstream popular even though the game you enjoy more than those shares a lot of similar (though not identical) mechanics.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
Quests these days basically are like dungeons in a MMO. My understanding is that in the days there needed to be a GM around in order for quests to be run, it was mostly because they were not set up to be automated. I think the ability to run quests for equipment upgrades keeps people invested in the game and getting better or cooler looking gear, and I think it is a good thing. I can understand not wanting to repeatedly run quests for loot but really that doesn't seem to be going away so I don't see a sense of being irritated by it since nobody is forcing you to run the quests. Some (maybe all? I haven't done all of them) of the quests have different objectives and puzzles each time too, which adds replay value.
Being able to attack something you aren't facing exists in other games, Wildstar and Diablo being two mainstream examples.
It is fine to dislike certain mechanics and stuff but it almost feels like you are being a hipster about it and just hating on things that are mainstream popular even though the game you enjoy more than those shares a lot of similar (though not identical) mechanics.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 08:57 AM CDT
<to claim DR is wildly mechanically different from other games
Did I make such claims? There are a lot of similarities, sure, but there are also a lot of differences - even just in the combat system. Balance, for example, and the way injuries work. The way targeting works is quite a bit different than most every other MMORPG (Diablo isn't really an MMO, though it is a very fair comparison to make.) The skills system is more like a single player Elder Scrolls game than any MMO I've played (how is the Elder Scrolls MMO, anyway? I don't have time to play everything!) I know WoW used to have skills that increased as you used them, I remember it, but DR's blows all of that out of the water. Mind-states are genius (and I wish the concept would receive further development someday.) Circling is based on skills, rather than skills being based on circling (spells are a weird semi-exception to this, and one I've never quite been thrilled with even if it does work well enough.) I could write an essay about all of things that stand out about DR, and how they form a unique blend that I haven't found anywhere else - some single player games come closish, but no MMO has. Pen and paper games generally do it better, but they're a hassle to organize (and I usually get stuck as the GM because no one else wants to do it.) Is it anything wildly different from other MMOs? Eh ... not really. But in a lot of ways that count it's a damn sight better.
Another added benefit that I'd like to note - the people that I talk to in DR on a daily basis, even just random strangers, generally seem to be a cut above. Socializing (which sometimes leads to fighting) within the fantasy/RP environment is a huge part of what makes DR as enjoyable as it is. These types of interactions between player characters (as opposed to the players themselves) is something that I've only ever really found in pen and paper games - and DR. Among those of us who really enjoy RPing, that is. In theory, most modern MMOs have RP servers, but whenever I've played on those it always seemed like kind of a joke. There's something that the text provides that graphics ruin - the mind's eye. Even though the text printed out by the DANCE command is always the same, when I picture the scene in my head it's always different from the last. Graphical /dances, however, are always the same - and nothing is left to the imagination. It's like the books vs movies argument. Both have merits, but they don't really do the same thing.
<so many people script everything.
Scripting everything sounds so mind numbingly boring. I don't use any scripts, and I'm happy that way. I don't understand the appeal of scripts, and I've never liked that they've been an accepted part of the game. To the on the forums this apparently makes me the bad guy - but I know several others in the game who don't script (or who do so very lightly.)
<How is this different from opening up a GUI menu and picking an item to make and pressing "craft"?
It isn't. And it's a big part of why I don't script. Selecting an item and pressing "craft". How thrilling. Snooze. As if the process needed to be made even more hands-free than it already is. "Hunting" for the sake of mind-locking skills is already banal enough without reducing it to .hunt. Has anyone made a .play script yet to just play the game for them while they pay half-attention to make sure they don't get caught completely AFK? (I really, really hope that last sentence was hyperbole and that no one actually has.)
<I don't see a sense of being irritated by it since nobody is forcing you to run the quests.
I don't really see any sense in being irritated by it, either. And I'm not. I just haven't seen much of a reason to do them, and they're kind enough to stay out of my general experience as a player. Live and let live.
<It is fine to dislike certain mechanics and stuff but it almost feels like you are being a hipster about it and just hating on things that are mainstream popular even though the game you enjoy more than those shares a lot of similar (though not identical) mechanics.
I'm just trying to give feedback, that's all. Everyone's got opinions, and being able to freely discuss them is hopefully for the benefit of all. Yeah, DR does share a lot of similar mechanics to other games - what game doesn't? A lot of these similar mechanics are good ones, too! As to being a hipster - I frankly don't care whether or not something is popular. I like what I like, and I don't like what I don't like. I play SC2 semi-regularlyish - my one guilty post-activision merger pleasure courtesy of Blizzard Entertainment. It's one of the most popular games, and even though I don't like what the writers/artists have done to the story, the multiplayer gameplay is one of the best computer gaming experiences available. Hell, every now and then my friends convince me to play LoL, too. And I enjoy it (in small doses only!) Am I a hipster? I have no frakking clue. Whatever. I just live, eat, breathe, and sleep games (making and playing) - anything else I don't really care about at this juncture.
Did I make such claims? There are a lot of similarities, sure, but there are also a lot of differences - even just in the combat system. Balance, for example, and the way injuries work. The way targeting works is quite a bit different than most every other MMORPG (Diablo isn't really an MMO, though it is a very fair comparison to make.) The skills system is more like a single player Elder Scrolls game than any MMO I've played (how is the Elder Scrolls MMO, anyway? I don't have time to play everything!) I know WoW used to have skills that increased as you used them, I remember it, but DR's blows all of that out of the water. Mind-states are genius (and I wish the concept would receive further development someday.) Circling is based on skills, rather than skills being based on circling (spells are a weird semi-exception to this, and one I've never quite been thrilled with even if it does work well enough.) I could write an essay about all of things that stand out about DR, and how they form a unique blend that I haven't found anywhere else - some single player games come closish, but no MMO has. Pen and paper games generally do it better, but they're a hassle to organize (and I usually get stuck as the GM because no one else wants to do it.) Is it anything wildly different from other MMOs? Eh ... not really. But in a lot of ways that count it's a damn sight better.
Another added benefit that I'd like to note - the people that I talk to in DR on a daily basis, even just random strangers, generally seem to be a cut above. Socializing (which sometimes leads to fighting) within the fantasy/RP environment is a huge part of what makes DR as enjoyable as it is. These types of interactions between player characters (as opposed to the players themselves) is something that I've only ever really found in pen and paper games - and DR. Among those of us who really enjoy RPing, that is. In theory, most modern MMOs have RP servers, but whenever I've played on those it always seemed like kind of a joke. There's something that the text provides that graphics ruin - the mind's eye. Even though the text printed out by the DANCE command is always the same, when I picture the scene in my head it's always different from the last. Graphical /dances, however, are always the same - and nothing is left to the imagination. It's like the books vs movies argument. Both have merits, but they don't really do the same thing.
<so many people script everything.
Scripting everything sounds so mind numbingly boring. I don't use any scripts, and I'm happy that way. I don't understand the appeal of scripts, and I've never liked that they've been an accepted part of the game. To the on the forums this apparently makes me the bad guy - but I know several others in the game who don't script (or who do so very lightly.)
<How is this different from opening up a GUI menu and picking an item to make and pressing "craft"?
It isn't. And it's a big part of why I don't script. Selecting an item and pressing "craft". How thrilling. Snooze. As if the process needed to be made even more hands-free than it already is. "Hunting" for the sake of mind-locking skills is already banal enough without reducing it to .hunt. Has anyone made a .play script yet to just play the game for them while they pay half-attention to make sure they don't get caught completely AFK? (I really, really hope that last sentence was hyperbole and that no one actually has.)
<I don't see a sense of being irritated by it since nobody is forcing you to run the quests.
I don't really see any sense in being irritated by it, either. And I'm not. I just haven't seen much of a reason to do them, and they're kind enough to stay out of my general experience as a player. Live and let live.
<It is fine to dislike certain mechanics and stuff but it almost feels like you are being a hipster about it and just hating on things that are mainstream popular even though the game you enjoy more than those shares a lot of similar (though not identical) mechanics.
I'm just trying to give feedback, that's all. Everyone's got opinions, and being able to freely discuss them is hopefully for the benefit of all. Yeah, DR does share a lot of similar mechanics to other games - what game doesn't? A lot of these similar mechanics are good ones, too! As to being a hipster - I frankly don't care whether or not something is popular. I like what I like, and I don't like what I don't like. I play SC2 semi-regularlyish - my one guilty post-activision merger pleasure courtesy of Blizzard Entertainment. It's one of the most popular games, and even though I don't like what the writers/artists have done to the story, the multiplayer gameplay is one of the best computer gaming experiences available. Hell, every now and then my friends convince me to play LoL, too. And I enjoy it (in small doses only!) Am I a hipster? I have no frakking clue. Whatever. I just live, eat, breathe, and sleep games (making and playing) - anything else I don't really care about at this juncture.
ORBITAL303
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 09:02 AM CDT
As an aside, re: modern games, you would probably like Divinity Originl Sin a lot. I am loving it, feels like playing a tabletop rpg.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
ORBITAL303
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 09:05 AM CDT
Also the hipster part of my post wasn't really entirely directed at you so much as it was at people who were using hyperbole about the WORST GAMING EXPERIENCES EVARRRRRR.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 09:11 AM CDT
<you would probably like Divinity Originl Sin a lot.
That game has come up on my radar - and I'm glad you brought it up. I'll make an extra effort to check it out now! Thanks.
That game has come up on my radar - and I'm glad you brought it up. I'll make an extra effort to check it out now! Thanks.
ORBITAL303
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 09:17 AM CDT
Its so good. Also hilarious deaths the sort of which I haven't had outside a tabletop setting.
Example: I inflicted bleeding on an enemy in melee. It tried to retreat. I decided that I was going to kill it with lightning before it could escape.
I succeeded. It took enough lightning damage to die.
Then the lightning arced into the blood trail on the ground, into melee range of me, and arced into me, jumping between me and the rest of my party members until we were all dead.
Oops.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
Example: I inflicted bleeding on an enemy in melee. It tried to retreat. I decided that I was going to kill it with lightning before it could escape.
I succeeded. It took enough lightning damage to die.
Then the lightning arced into the blood trail on the ground, into melee range of me, and arced into me, jumping between me and the rest of my party members until we were all dead.
Oops.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
ROBERTDH
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 09:31 AM CDT
>Then the lightning arced into the blood trail on the ground, into melee range of me, and arced into me, jumping between me and the rest of my party members until we were all dead.
This is the greatest thing I have ever heard and makes having to scroll past the inane, endless, and uninformative opinion-mongering of the rest of this thread worth it.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
This is the greatest thing I have ever heard and makes having to scroll past the inane, endless, and uninformative opinion-mongering of the rest of this thread worth it.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 09:38 AM CDT
>Then the lightning arced into the blood trail on the ground, into melee range of me, and arced into me, jumping between me and the rest of my party members until we were all dead.
That sounds perfect!
That sounds perfect!
ABSOLON
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 09:38 AM CDT
<<I don't understand the appeal of scripts, and I've never liked that they've been an accepted part of the game.
<<Has anyone made a .play script yet to just play the game for them while they pay half-attention to make sure they don't get caught completely AFK? (I really, really hope that last sentence was hyperbole and that no one actually has.)
TF would like to say hello. Years ago, my master script was able to run for days at a time and did everything I would normally do when atk like combat, survivals, lore, and including mundane stuff like repairing, managing loot, and getting healed. And mine was paltry compared to some of the stuff people ran. Writing a script and tweaking it itself can be part of the fun too. I certainly felt an extreme sense of satisfaction when a different contract trading script reached 28 straight days of uninterrupted activity before finally succumbing to my internet going down one night. Obviously in Prime, these types of milestones don't apply but there are many other ways to find satisfaction in a well-oiled script.
It's perfectly fine for someone to not find scripting enjoyable, but don't shut down those who do find the act of creating scripts rewarding in and of itself just because you don't like scripting. Take that nonsense elsewhere.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
<<Has anyone made a .play script yet to just play the game for them while they pay half-attention to make sure they don't get caught completely AFK? (I really, really hope that last sentence was hyperbole and that no one actually has.)
TF would like to say hello. Years ago, my master script was able to run for days at a time and did everything I would normally do when atk like combat, survivals, lore, and including mundane stuff like repairing, managing loot, and getting healed. And mine was paltry compared to some of the stuff people ran. Writing a script and tweaking it itself can be part of the fun too. I certainly felt an extreme sense of satisfaction when a different contract trading script reached 28 straight days of uninterrupted activity before finally succumbing to my internet going down one night. Obviously in Prime, these types of milestones don't apply but there are many other ways to find satisfaction in a well-oiled script.
It's perfectly fine for someone to not find scripting enjoyable, but don't shut down those who do find the act of creating scripts rewarding in and of itself just because you don't like scripting. Take that nonsense elsewhere.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
ORBITAL303
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 09:54 AM CDT
My only objection to scripting is when people AFK script in prime, but that's nothing a report can't handle. Scripting everything isn't my thing but it's perfectly valid to do as long as you remain within TOS.
I guess the best thing to take away from this is DR appeals to a lot of people for a lot of different reasons, and it strikes a good balance. But to change it somehow to appeal more to a specific crowd risks alienating others, and I think everyone can agree regardless of gaming style preferences that DR doesn't need to lose players.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
I guess the best thing to take away from this is DR appeals to a lot of people for a lot of different reasons, and it strikes a good balance. But to change it somehow to appeal more to a specific crowd risks alienating others, and I think everyone can agree regardless of gaming style preferences that DR doesn't need to lose players.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 10:10 AM CDT
<It's perfectly fine for someone to not find scripting enjoyable, but don't shut down those who do find the act of creating scripts rewarding in and of itself just because you don't like scripting. Take that nonsense elsewhere.
I agree, but I think that the AFK scripting is nonsense that should be taken to TF. It sucks to walk into a room where people are busy doing things, and to get no response from them for long periods of time. One of my good friends loves to script, for the reasons you mentioned, and I rant at him about it too. He's been dinged for AFK scripting once recently. I laughed and said I told you so. Personally, I think it detracts from my gaming experience when I run into people who are scripting to mindlock skills while only halfway paying attention. But Orbital is right - every sub is precious at this point (as far as I know, I don't have access to Simu's budget.) As long as people are home when the lights are on, it doesn't really bother me much. I don't report people, either (maybe I should?) - I just generally avoid those types. Live and let live.
I agree, but I think that the AFK scripting is nonsense that should be taken to TF. It sucks to walk into a room where people are busy doing things, and to get no response from them for long periods of time. One of my good friends loves to script, for the reasons you mentioned, and I rant at him about it too. He's been dinged for AFK scripting once recently. I laughed and said I told you so. Personally, I think it detracts from my gaming experience when I run into people who are scripting to mindlock skills while only halfway paying attention. But Orbital is right - every sub is precious at this point (as far as I know, I don't have access to Simu's budget.) As long as people are home when the lights are on, it doesn't really bother me much. I don't report people, either (maybe I should?) - I just generally avoid those types. Live and let live.
BADGOPHER
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 10:27 AM CDT
You can either complain about scripting, and report them, or not, and not complain.
The posted and suggested recourse for scripting is exclusively 'report them and move on'.
If players started reporting, more people would get dinged. Don't report? No right to complain about afk scripting.
No, this isn't a personal jab at Stellar there. It's my stance.
The posted and suggested recourse for scripting is exclusively 'report them and move on'.
If players started reporting, more people would get dinged. Don't report? No right to complain about afk scripting.
No, this isn't a personal jab at Stellar there. It's my stance.
ABSOLON
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 10:27 AM CDT
<< It sucks to walk into a room where people are busy doing things, and to get no response from them for long periods of time.
I often don't respond, because I don't want to interact for whatever reason, anywhere from editing a script and I don't want to be interrupted to just being anti-social. I purposely don't do anything to indicate I'm atk when people start talking about how others are non-responsive. Its quite amusing watching people's panty knots develop when someone doesn't talk to them.
<<Personally, I think it detracts from my gaming experience when I run into people who are scripting to mindlock skills while only halfway paying attention.
Why? Because they aren't talking to you? See above.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
I often don't respond, because I don't want to interact for whatever reason, anywhere from editing a script and I don't want to be interrupted to just being anti-social. I purposely don't do anything to indicate I'm atk when people start talking about how others are non-responsive. Its quite amusing watching people's panty knots develop when someone doesn't talk to them.
<<Personally, I think it detracts from my gaming experience when I run into people who are scripting to mindlock skills while only halfway paying attention.
Why? Because they aren't talking to you? See above.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 10:29 AM CDT
I hate star wars so much but I was glad when that guy started playing professor x.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 10:45 AM CDT
<Why? Because they aren't talking to you? See above.
Could at least have the courtesy to type IGNORE <character> so that I at least know that I'm being ignored. That would be reasonable. It's one thing to not want to give someone the time of day. It's another thing entirely to have your character actively engaged in something (whatever your script is) and then be completely and totally unresponsive even on an OOC level. A quick ignore command accomplishes the same thing - your character ignoring my character - without you also being a douche OOC. Being antisocial is fine, but there's a degree of common courtesy that can (and should) be shown if you don't want people to avoid you entirely. Do I really have to explain this? In short, if I say "Hello?" to someone and they're completely unresponsive even though they're clearly present (ie: doing things) I just assume they're a dick and move on. Whether AFK scripting or purposefully being rude to a complete stranger, it amounts to the same thing from an IC sense. From an OOC sense, if it's the latter, then I'm just not going to want to play with you (which is probably what you want to, considering you're ignoring me.)
Could at least have the courtesy to type IGNORE <character> so that I at least know that I'm being ignored. That would be reasonable. It's one thing to not want to give someone the time of day. It's another thing entirely to have your character actively engaged in something (whatever your script is) and then be completely and totally unresponsive even on an OOC level. A quick ignore command accomplishes the same thing - your character ignoring my character - without you also being a douche OOC. Being antisocial is fine, but there's a degree of common courtesy that can (and should) be shown if you don't want people to avoid you entirely. Do I really have to explain this? In short, if I say "Hello?" to someone and they're completely unresponsive even though they're clearly present (ie: doing things) I just assume they're a dick and move on. Whether AFK scripting or purposefully being rude to a complete stranger, it amounts to the same thing from an IC sense. From an OOC sense, if it's the latter, then I'm just not going to want to play with you (which is probably what you want to, considering you're ignoring me.)
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 10:48 AM CDT
<You can either complain about scripting, and report them, or not, and not complain.
I kind of see it that way, too, I just hate to rain on people. Especially if I don't know them. I may try to report, I'll have to stew on it.
I kind of see it that way, too, I just hate to rain on people. Especially if I don't know them. I may try to report, I'll have to stew on it.
DR-RAESH
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 10:48 AM CDT
>>Has anyone made a .play script yet to just play the game for them while they pay half-attention to make sure they don't get caught completely AFK?
I half jokingly named my primary training script for the last year or so before joining staff ".moonmage" and my level of scripting sophistication was far below many (I didn't even use Genie).
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
I half jokingly named my primary training script for the last year or so before joining staff ".moonmage" and my level of scripting sophistication was far below many (I didn't even use Genie).
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
ORBITAL303
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 10:55 AM CDT
>there's a degree of common courtesy that can (and should) be shown if you don't want people to avoid you entirely
To be fair, he may WANT to be avoided entirely or almost entirely. This is why you should report if you think someone is afk scripting. If they are, they will probably get script checked and punished if unresponsive. If they aren't, they will pass and keep going abput their business. Either way though, if they aren't in violation of policy, they aren't really doing anything wrong.
You said you don't report folks for that. Why not?
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
To be fair, he may WANT to be avoided entirely or almost entirely. This is why you should report if you think someone is afk scripting. If they are, they will probably get script checked and punished if unresponsive. If they aren't, they will pass and keep going abput their business. Either way though, if they aren't in violation of policy, they aren't really doing anything wrong.
You said you don't report folks for that. Why not?
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 11:01 AM CDT
<You said you don't report folks for that. Why not?
It sounds really silly, but it boils down to that weird stigma about not ratting people out. The bottom line is that AFK scripting really isn't any kind of directly hostile action towards me. I'm not gonna hand someone over to the fuzz if they aren't screwing with me or anyone I care about. That said, it is generally bad for the game (most MMOs have very strict anti-botting policies and will ban accounts over it.) This is why I'm generally conflicted about it. I always think about reporting, but to date I never have.
It sounds really silly, but it boils down to that weird stigma about not ratting people out. The bottom line is that AFK scripting really isn't any kind of directly hostile action towards me. I'm not gonna hand someone over to the fuzz if they aren't screwing with me or anyone I care about. That said, it is generally bad for the game (most MMOs have very strict anti-botting policies and will ban accounts over it.) This is why I'm generally conflicted about it. I always think about reporting, but to date I never have.
ABSOLON
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 11:08 AM CDT
<<Could at least have the courtesy to type IGNORE <character> so that I at least know that I'm being ignored.
Yeah, no. This is as likely to get me an arrow to the face as it is to cause them to attempt further interaction.
<<the rest
Sweet panty knot goodness! /drool
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Yeah, no. This is as likely to get me an arrow to the face as it is to cause them to attempt further interaction.
<<the rest
Sweet panty knot goodness! /drool
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 11:10 AM CDT
<Yeah, no. This is as likely to get me an arrow to the face as it is to cause them to attempt further interaction.
Psychopaths. I leave people alone when it's clear they don't want to be bothered. Generally.
Psychopaths. I leave people alone when it's clear they don't want to be bothered. Generally.
ORBITAL303
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 11:18 AM CDT
It isn't like they are going to get a huge punishment if it's a first time violation - I think it's just a warning that will cause them possibly to wise up. If it isn't the first time and they haven't wised up, they really should know better and deserve what they get.
Reporting is the only way to try and stop it from happening. If you are not reporting folks you feel are afk, you should be.
That said, someone has no obligation to interact with you if they don't want to, and they don't have to respond either. If you think they are afk scripting, let staff know and be done with it.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
Reporting is the only way to try and stop it from happening. If you are not reporting folks you feel are afk, you should be.
That said, someone has no obligation to interact with you if they don't want to, and they don't have to respond either. If you think they are afk scripting, let staff know and be done with it.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles
07/22/2014 01:48 PM CDT
The "I hate it when people don't say hi to me" thread would be a lot more fun in conflicts.
Or at least people could give more sarcastic responses without getting modwrath.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Or at least people could give more sarcastic responses without getting modwrath.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Tear-Stained Rose-Colored Goggles ::Thread Over::
07/22/2014 09:43 PM CDT
This one is WAY off topic and now it's over.
If you would like to re-post your various questions in the appropriate folders, that would be fine. Just kindly STAY on topic when you get there.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
If you would like to re-post your various questions in the appropriate folders, that would be fine. Just kindly STAY on topic when you get there.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
