Just curious - what are the ranges of skill you see when you Assess Teach?
For example, I saw someone with Extremely Simplistic evasion compared to me... but they're hunting in the same area I hunt. I would think "extremely simplistic" would be like 100 ranks lower than me or somesuch, but I can't imagine having much more than 30 ranks lower than me and hunting in this area.
So - what do each of those ranges represent?
SHEATH
GRIM45
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/16/2011 03:48 PM CDT
>>I can't imagine having much more than 30 ranks lower than me and hunting in this area.
Idle curiosity, but why not? Skill bosters, or large gaps in reflex could account for quite a significant rank difference.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Idle curiosity, but why not? Skill bosters, or large gaps in reflex could account for quite a significant rank difference.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
SHEATH
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/16/2011 04:13 PM CDT
Because I personally started hunting in the area about 20 ranks ago and was pretty close to the bottom of being able to hunt here... i.e. anything more than 2 critters I had to run immediately cause I'd get killed, and with 2 critters I still had a pretty decent chance of being beat on pretty good.
I also have pretty good reflex for my circle, although maybe you're right that they've got some type of class bonus that's really powerful.
It's also entirely possible I'm wrong - hence this experience making me curious what the ranges were. It just surprised me that someone with "extremely simplistic" evasion compared to mine would be able to still hunt in the same area as I am.
I also have pretty good reflex for my circle, although maybe you're right that they've got some type of class bonus that's really powerful.
It's also entirely possible I'm wrong - hence this experience making me curious what the ranges were. It just surprised me that someone with "extremely simplistic" evasion compared to mine would be able to still hunt in the same area as I am.
YAMCER
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/16/2011 04:39 PM CDT
<<For example, I saw someone with Extremely Simplistic evasion compared to me... but they're hunting in the same area I hunt. I would think "extremely simplistic" would be like 100 ranks lower than me or somesuch, but I can't imagine having much more than 30 ranks lower than me and hunting in this area.>>
The levels we have are:
*from the view of person B
Doesn't seem to be straight up skill difference.
(This is a rough estimate because the two people I'm testing with don't have a lot of skills close together.)
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
The levels we have are:
| Level* | Difference | Person A | Person B |
| Extremely Simplistic | -18 Ranks | 16 | 34 |
| Basic ? | ? Ranks | - | - |
| Same ? | ? Ranks | - | - |
| Intermediate | +75 Ranks | 466 | 391 |
| Extremely Advanced | +51 Ranks | 59 | 8 |
*from the view of person B
Doesn't seem to be straight up skill difference.
(This is a rough estimate because the two people I'm testing with don't have a lot of skills close together.)
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
ISHARON
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/16/2011 05:08 PM CDT
There seems to be some variability, possibly depending on the assessor's appraisal or scholarship.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
RAIST
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/16/2011 05:21 PM CDT
>Doesn't seem to be straight up skill difference.
Might be a function of teaching skill as well.
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance List:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
Might be a function of teaching skill as well.
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance List:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
KOUGEN
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/16/2011 07:43 PM CDT
>>Might be a function of teaching skill as well.
My experience suggests this.
~ Pansophist Kougen
"Tell me thy company, and I'll tell thee what thou art." - Miguel de Cervantes
My experience suggests this.
~ Pansophist Kougen
"Tell me thy company, and I'll tell thee what thou art." - Miguel de Cervantes
SHEATH
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 08:36 AM CDT
Hm. That's interesting - only an 18 rank difference to get extremely simplistic. Well, guess now I know that you can't really rely on that assessment to gauge others strength!
ISHARON
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 03:19 PM CDT
I crunched some more numbers. ASSESS TEACH is more complex than I realized.
I'm not sure whether the variations in ASSESS TEACH are merely an issue of accuracy (due to the student's stats) or whether they actually indicate how effective that class would be for that student. If it's the latter, that would be more useful in deciding which class to listen to, even if ASSESS TEACH is not an accurate predictor of the teacher's ranks in the subject.
Possible assessments:
- extremely advanced
- advanced
- intermediate
- basic
- simplistic
- extremely simplistic
Factors that may affect assessments:
- difference between the teacher's and student's ranks in the subject being taught
- teacher's/student's ranks in the subject
- teacher's/student's skillset placement
- teacher's/student's ranks in teaching
- student's ranks in scholarship?
- student's ranks in appraisal?
Unless otherwise noted, when I say "ranks" or list numbers, I am referring to ranks in the subject being taught.
Unless the difference between the teacher's and student's ranks is extreme, that factor alone doesn't seem to be a very good predictor of assessment level.
A class is more likely to appear "extremely advanced" if the student has few ranks, even if the teacher only has a few more ranks than the student.
Characters' Stats
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
I'm not sure whether the variations in ASSESS TEACH are merely an issue of accuracy (due to the student's stats) or whether they actually indicate how effective that class would be for that student. If it's the latter, that would be more useful in deciding which class to listen to, even if ASSESS TEACH is not an accurate predictor of the teacher's ranks in the subject.
Possible assessments:
- extremely advanced
- advanced
- intermediate
- basic
- simplistic
- extremely simplistic
Factors that may affect assessments:
- difference between the teacher's and student's ranks in the subject being taught
- teacher's/student's ranks in the subject
- teacher's/student's skillset placement
- teacher's/student's ranks in teaching
- student's ranks in scholarship?
- student's ranks in appraisal?
Unless otherwise noted, when I say "ranks" or list numbers, I am referring to ranks in the subject being taught.
Unless the difference between the teacher's and student's ranks is extreme, that factor alone doesn't seem to be a very good predictor of assessment level.
| Assessment | Min. Diff. | Max. Diff. | Mean Diff. | Median Diff. |
| extremely advanced | 6 | N/A | N/A | N/A |
| advanced | 19 | 117 | 78.75 | 88 |
| intermediate | 3 | 119 | 34.2 | 19 |
| basic | 1 | 48 | 9.2 | 4 |
| simplistic | -1 | -48 | -8 | -3 |
| extremely simplistic | -8 | N/A | N/A | N/A |
A class is more likely to appear "extremely advanced" if the student has few ranks, even if the teacher only has a few more ranks than the student.
Characters' Stats
| Paladin | Empath | |
| Appraisal | 497 | 430 |
| Scholarship | 494 | 542 |
| Teaching | 538 | 523 |
| Charisma | 44 | 47 |
| Intelligence | 43 | 46 |
| Wisdom | 43 | 45 |
| Paladin-Empath | Paladin's Class | Empath's Class | Paladin's Ranks | Empath's Ranks | Skillset |
| 425 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 447 | 22 | Armor |
| 383 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 388 | 5 | Armor |
| 276 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 336 | 60 | Weapon |
| 218 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 476 | 258 | Armor |
| 213 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 273 | 60 | Weapon |
| 166 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 34 | Weapon |
| 166 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 34 | Weapon |
| 165 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 35 | Weapon |
| 164 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 36 | Weapon |
| 161 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 39 | Weapon |
| 161 | extremely advanced | 161 | 0 | Armor | |
| 140 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 60 | Weapon |
| 140 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 60 | Weapon |
| 132 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 390 | 258 | Weapon |
| 128 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 386 | 258 | Weapon |
| 126 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 161 | 35 | Armor |
| 125 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 162 | 37 | Armor |
| 97 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 356 | 259 | Survival |
| 88 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 346 | 258 | Armor |
| 82 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 340 | 258 | Armor |
| 67 | intermediate | extremely simplistic | 497 | 430 | Lore |
| 64 | intermediate | extremely simplistic | 465 | 401 | Survival |
| 58 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 92 | 34 | Weapon |
| 56 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 92 | 36 | Weapon |
| 56 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 91 | 35 | Weapon |
| 55 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 91 | 36 | Weapon |
| 54 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 92 | 38 | Weapon |
| 54 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 91 | 37 | Weapon |
| 42 | advanced | extremely simplistic | 245 | 203 | Survival |
| 18 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 54 | 36 | Lore |
| 15 | basic | simplistic | 538 | 523 | Lore |
| 13 | intermediate | extremely simplistic | 126 | 113 | Survival |
| 12 | intermediate | simplistic | 123 | 111 | Survival |
| 12 | extremely advanced | 12 | 0 | Lore | |
| 8 | extremely advanced | 8 | 0 | Lore | |
| 6 | basic | simplistic | 115 | 109 | Survival |
| 3 | intermediate | simplistic | 40 | 37 | Weapon |
| 1 | basic | simplistic | 38 | 37 | Weapon |
| 1 | basic | simplistic | 34 | 33 | Weapon |
| -1 | simplistic | basic | 40 | 41 | Weapon |
| -2 | simplistic | basic | 35 | 37 | Weapon |
| -3 | simplistic | intermediate | 34 | 37 | Weapon |
| -3 | simplistic | intermediate | 34 | 37 | Weapon |
| -4 | simplistic | basic | 88 | 92 | Survival |
| -5 | simplistic | basic | 88 | 93 | Survival |
| -6 | extremely advanced | 0 | 6 | Lore | |
| -19 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 75 | 94 | Survival |
| -25 | extremely simplistic | intermediate | 208 | 233 | Lore |
| -33 | extremely simplistic | intermediate | 225 | 258 | Weapon |
| -48 | simplistic | basic | 494 | 542 | Lore |
| -59 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 210 | 269 | Magic |
| -75 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 347 | 422 | Survival |
| -76 | extremely simplistic | extremely advanced | 72 | 148 | Survival |
| -101 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 366 | 467 | Magic |
| -102 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 398 | 500 | Magic |
| -115 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 399 | 514 | Magic |
| -117 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 431 | 548 | Magic |
| -119 | extremely simplistic | intermediate | 612 | 731 | Lore |
| -244 | extremely simplistic | extremely advanced | 342 | 586 | Survival |
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
DANFORDS2
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 03:41 PM CDT
Could it be a percentage of the viewer's ranks?
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
LAQUE2
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 04:01 PM CDT
I'll be honest, I'm not too interested in the endpoint of this discussion, but that's a fine set of data there, excellent job and idea in gathering it. :)
Illimin
Illimin
INCARNATION
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 04:43 PM CDT
>>Could it be a percentage of the viewer's ranks?
It's looking like that to me.
Going from the data set presented and making some guesses to fill in the blanks (knowing that human developers would tend to pick round numbers), here's what I get:
Extremely Simplistic - -%10% and less
Simplistic - -10% to 0%
Basic - 0% to 8%
Intermediate - 8% to 20%
Advanced - 20% to 50%
Extremely Advanced - 30% and greater
(calculation uses teacher/viewer)
I found this using the paladin as teacher, and checked with empath as teacher, and the percentages held up. The thing I'm most uncertain about is where basic changes to intermediate; going both ways, there's no percentages between 105.71% and 108.11%, so the switchover could happen at 106% or 107.5% or so.
Also, the 494/542 thing with empath teaching seems to break the pattern. I'm assuming that's a mistake, so I tossed that data point. Could you recheck that one if you get the chance, Isharon?
Data, cleaned, calculated, and sorted:
It's looking like that to me.
Going from the data set presented and making some guesses to fill in the blanks (knowing that human developers would tend to pick round numbers), here's what I get:
Extremely Simplistic - -%10% and less
Simplistic - -10% to 0%
Basic - 0% to 8%
Intermediate - 8% to 20%
Advanced - 20% to 50%
Extremely Advanced - 30% and greater
(calculation uses teacher/viewer)
I found this using the paladin as teacher, and checked with empath as teacher, and the percentages held up. The thing I'm most uncertain about is where basic changes to intermediate; going both ways, there's no percentages between 105.71% and 108.11%, so the switchover could happen at 106% or 107.5% or so.
Also, the 494/542 thing with empath teaching seems to break the pattern. I'm assuming that's a mistake, so I tossed that data point. Could you recheck that one if you get the chance, Isharon?
Data, cleaned, calculated, and sorted:
| 383 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 388 | 5 | Armor | 7760.00% | 1.29% |
| 425 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 447 | 22 | Armor | 2031.82% | 4.92% |
| 166 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 34 | Weapon | 588.24% | 17.00% |
| 166 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 34 | Weapon | 588.24% | 17.00% |
| 165 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 35 | Weapon | 571.43% | 17.50% |
| 276 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 336 | 60 | Weapon | 560.00% | 17.86% |
| 164 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 36 | Weapon | 555.56% | 18.00% |
| 161 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 39 | Weapon | 512.82% | 19.50% |
| 126 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 161 | 35 | Armor | 460.00% | 21.74% |
| 213 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 273 | 60 | Weapon | 455.00% | 21.98% |
| 125 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 162 | 37 | Armor | 437.84% | 22.84% |
| 140 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 60 | Weapon | 333.33% | 30.00% |
| 140 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 200 | 60 | Weapon | 333.33% | 30.00% |
| 58 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 92 | 34 | Weapon | 270.59% | 36.96% |
| 56 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 91 | 35 | Weapon | 260.00% | 38.46% |
| 56 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 92 | 36 | Weapon | 255.56% | 39.13% |
| 55 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 91 | 36 | Weapon | 252.78% | 39.56% |
| 54 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 91 | 37 | Weapon | 245.95% | 40.66% |
| 54 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 92 | 38 | Weapon | 242.11% | 41.30% |
| 218 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 476 | 258 | Armor | 184.50% | 54.20% |
| 132 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 390 | 258 | Weapon | 151.16% | 66.15% |
| 18 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 54 | 36 | Lore | 150.00% | 66.67% |
| 128 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 386 | 258 | Weapon | 149.61% | 66.84% |
| 97 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 356 | 259 | Survival | 137.45% | 72.75% |
| 88 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 346 | 258 | Armor | 134.11% | 74.57% |
| 82 | extremely advanced | extremely simplistic | 340 | 258 | Armor | 131.78% | 75.88% |
| 42 | advanced | extremely simplistic | 245 | 203 | Survival | 120.69% | 82.86% |
| 64 | intermediate | extremely simplistic | 465 | 401 | Survival | 115.96% | 86.24% |
| 67 | intermediate | extremely simplistic | 497 | 430 | Lore | 115.58% | 86.52% |
| 13 | intermediate | extremely simplistic | 126 | 113 | Survival | 111.50% | 89.68% |
| 12 | intermediate | simplistic | 123 | 111 | Survival | 110.81% | 90.24% |
| 3 | intermediate | simplistic | 40 | 37 | Weapon | 108.11% | 92.50% |
| 6 | basic | simplistic | 115 | 109 | Survival | 105.50% | 94.78% |
| 1 | basic | simplistic | 34 | 33 | Weapon | 103.03% | 97.06% |
| 15 | basic | simplistic | 538 | 523 | Lore | 102.87% | 97.21% |
| 1 | basic | simplistic | 38 | 37 | Weapon | 102.70% | 97.37% |
| -1 | simplistic | basic | 40 | 41 | Weapon | 97.56% | 102.50% |
| -4 | simplistic | basic | 88 | 92 | Survival | 95.65% | 104.55% |
| -5 | simplistic | basic | 88 | 93 | Survival | 94.62% | 105.68% |
| -2 | simplistic | basic | 35 | 37 | Weapon | 94.59% | 105.71% |
| -3 | simplistic | intermediate | 34 | 37 | Weapon | 91.89% | 108.82% |
| -3 | simplistic | intermediate | 34 | 37 | Weapon | 91.89% | 108.82% |
| -48 | simplistic | basic | 494 | 542 | Lore | 91.14% | 109.72% |
| -25 | extremely simplistic | intermediate | 208 | 233 | Lore | 89.27% | 112.02% |
| -33 | extremely simplistic | intermediate | 225 | 258 | Weapon | 87.21% | 114.67% |
| -119 | extremely simplistic | intermediate | 612 | 731 | Lore | 83.72% | 119.44% |
| -75 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 347 | 422 | Survival | 82.23% | 121.61% |
| -19 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 75 | 94 | Survival | 79.79% | 125.33% |
| -102 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 398 | 500 | Magic | 79.60% | 125.63% |
| -117 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 431 | 548 | Magic | 78.65% | 127.15% |
| -101 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 366 | 467 | Magic | 78.37% | 127.60% |
| -59 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 210 | 269 | Magic | 78.07% | 128.10% |
| -115 | extremely simplistic | advanced | 399 | 514 | Magic | 77.63% | 128.82% |
| -244 | extremely simplistic | extremely advanced | 342 | 586 | Survival | 58.36% | 171.35% |
| -76 | extremely simplistic | extremely advanced | 72 | 148 | Survival | 48.65% | 205.56% |
ISHARON
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 04:54 PM CDT
>>Incarnation: Also, the 494/542 thing with empath teaching seems to break the pattern. I'm assuming that's a mistake, so I tossed that data point. Could you recheck that one if you get the chance, Isharon?
I just double-checked, and the data are correct. There shouldn't be any typos in the rank numbers, because I used /sort in Genie and pasted to Excel.
Paladin:
Scholarship: 494
Teaching: 538
Isharon is teaching a class on simplistic (compared to what you already know) Scholarship which is still open to new students.
Isharon is teaching a class on basic (compared to what you already know) Teaching which is still open to new students.
Empath:
Scholarship: 542
Teaching: 523
Sarkranis is teaching a class on basic (compared to what you already know) Scholarship which is still open to new students.
Sarkranis is teaching a class on simplistic (compared to what you already know) Teaching which is still open to new students.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
I just double-checked, and the data are correct. There shouldn't be any typos in the rank numbers, because I used /sort in Genie and pasted to Excel.
Paladin:
Scholarship: 494
Teaching: 538
Isharon is teaching a class on simplistic (compared to what you already know) Scholarship which is still open to new students.
Isharon is teaching a class on basic (compared to what you already know) Teaching which is still open to new students.
Empath:
Scholarship: 542
Teaching: 523
Sarkranis is teaching a class on basic (compared to what you already know) Scholarship which is still open to new students.
Sarkranis is teaching a class on simplistic (compared to what you already know) Teaching which is still open to new students.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
YAMCER
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 04:56 PM CDT
I was thinking skill set might be a modifier. Primary vs secondary vs tert. There were a couple armors pretty close together (80's rank diff) and a few lores (100 rank diff), but nothing spread out over the continum. Need more data.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
INCARNATION
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 05:01 PM CDT
Well, that screws the straight % comparison theory. Something else has to factor in. My guess would be skillset placement. Or maybe scholarship is just weird/bugged. More data needed.
INCARNATION
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 05:04 PM CDT
>>Need more data.
>>More data needed.
Heh.
If anyone's around Mer'Kresh later tonight and would be willing to tellexp for Science!, let me know and we can get the extra data collection started. I'll write some scripts to make this easier a bit later.
>>More data needed.
Heh.
If anyone's around Mer'Kresh later tonight and would be willing to tellexp for Science!, let me know and we can get the extra data collection started. I'll write some scripts to make this easier a bit later.
ISHARON
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 05:45 PM CDT
I think that it's primarily percentage-based. Sorting my data by percentage (Teacher/Student), the assessments are also in the right order. (This does not happen when I sort by teacher's ranks, student's ranks, or teacher's ranks-student's ranks.)
Percentages are rounded to the nearest whole number. (I excluded only those cases where either the teacher or student had 0 ranks.)
As Incarnation noted, there is only one case that doesn't fit the pattern: the Empath's scholarship class. (The sort order indicates that it should be intermediate, but it's basic.)
Paladin Teaching Empath Student
Empath Teaching Paladin Student
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Percentages are rounded to the nearest whole number. (I excluded only those cases where either the teacher or student had 0 ranks.)
As Incarnation noted, there is only one case that doesn't fit the pattern: the Empath's scholarship class. (The sort order indicates that it should be intermediate, but it's basic.)
Paladin Teaching Empath Student
| Teacher/Student | Teacher's Class | Teacher Ranks | Student Ranks |
| 7760% | extremely advanced | 388 | 5 |
| 2032% | extremely advanced | 447 | 22 |
| 588% | extremely advanced | 200 | 34 |
| 588% | extremely advanced | 200 | 34 |
| 571% | extremely advanced | 200 | 35 |
| 560% | extremely advanced | 336 | 60 |
| 556% | extremely advanced | 200 | 36 |
| 513% | extremely advanced | 200 | 39 |
| 460% | extremely advanced | 161 | 35 |
| 455% | extremely advanced | 273 | 60 |
| 438% | extremely advanced | 162 | 37 |
| 333% | extremely advanced | 200 | 60 |
| 333% | extremely advanced | 200 | 60 |
| 271% | extremely advanced | 92 | 34 |
| 260% | extremely advanced | 91 | 35 |
| 256% | extremely advanced | 92 | 36 |
| 253% | extremely advanced | 91 | 36 |
| 246% | extremely advanced | 91 | 37 |
| 242% | extremely advanced | 92 | 38 |
| 184% | extremely advanced | 476 | 258 |
| 151% | extremely advanced | 390 | 258 |
| 150% | extremely advanced | 54 | 36 |
| 150% | extremely advanced | 386 | 258 |
| 137% | extremely advanced | 356 | 259 |
| 134% | extremely advanced | 346 | 258 |
| 132% | extremely advanced | 340 | 258 |
| 121% | advanced | 245 | 203 |
| 116% | intermediate | 465 | 401 |
| 116% | intermediate | 497 | 430 |
| 112% | intermediate | 126 | 113 |
| 111% | intermediate | 123 | 111 |
| 108% | intermediate | 40 | 37 |
| 106% | basic | 115 | 109 |
| 103% | basic | 34 | 33 |
| 103% | basic | 538 | 523 |
| 103% | basic | 38 | 37 |
| 98% | simplistic | 40 | 41 |
| 96% | simplistic | 88 | 92 |
| 95% | simplistic | 88 | 93 |
| 95% | simplistic | 35 | 37 |
| 92% | simplistic | 34 | 37 |
| 92% | simplistic | 34 | 37 |
| 91% | simplistic | 494 | 542 |
| 89% | extremely simplistic | 208 | 233 |
| 87% | extremely simplistic | 225 | 258 |
| 84% | extremely simplistic | 612 | 731 |
| 82% | extremely simplistic | 347 | 422 |
| 80% | extremely simplistic | 75 | 94 |
| 80% | extremely simplistic | 398 | 500 |
| 79% | extremely simplistic | 431 | 548 |
| 78% | extremely simplistic | 366 | 467 |
| 78% | extremely simplistic | 210 | 269 |
| 78% | extremely simplistic | 399 | 514 |
| 58% | extremely simplistic | 342 | 586 |
| 49% | extremely simplistic | 72 | 148 |
Empath Teaching Paladin Student
| Teacher/Student | Teacher's Class | Teacher Ranks | Student Ranks |
| 206% | extremely advanced | 148 | 72 |
| 171% | extremely advanced | 586 | 342 |
| 129% | advanced | 514 | 399 |
| 128% | advanced | 269 | 210 |
| 128% | advanced | 467 | 366 |
| 127% | advanced | 548 | 431 |
| 126% | advanced | 500 | 398 |
| 125% | advanced | 94 | 75 |
| 122% | advanced | 422 | 347 |
| 119% | intermediate | 731 | 612 |
| 115% | intermediate | 258 | 225 |
| 112% | intermediate | 233 | 208 |
| 110% | basic | 542 | 494 |
| 109% | intermediate | 37 | 34 |
| 109% | intermediate | 37 | 34 |
| 106% | basic | 37 | 35 |
| 106% | basic | 93 | 88 |
| 105% | basic | 92 | 88 |
| 103% | basic | 41 | 40 |
| 97% | simplistic | 37 | 38 |
| 97% | simplistic | 523 | 538 |
| 97% | simplistic | 33 | 34 |
| 95% | simplistic | 109 | 115 |
| 93% | simplistic | 37 | 40 |
| 90% | simplistic | 111 | 123 |
| 90% | extremely simplistic | 113 | 126 |
| 87% | extremely simplistic | 430 | 497 |
| 86% | extremely simplistic | 401 | 465 |
| 83% | extremely simplistic | 203 | 245 |
| 76% | extremely simplistic | 258 | 340 |
| 75% | extremely simplistic | 258 | 346 |
| 73% | extremely simplistic | 259 | 356 |
| 67% | extremely simplistic | 258 | 386 |
| 67% | extremely simplistic | 36 | 54 |
| 66% | extremely simplistic | 258 | 390 |
| 54% | extremely simplistic | 258 | 476 |
| 41% | extremely simplistic | 38 | 92 |
| 41% | extremely simplistic | 37 | 91 |
| 40% | extremely simplistic | 36 | 91 |
| 39% | extremely simplistic | 36 | 92 |
| 38% | extremely simplistic | 35 | 91 |
| 37% | extremely simplistic | 34 | 92 |
| 30% | extremely simplistic | 60 | 200 |
| 30% | extremely simplistic | 60 | 200 |
| 23% | extremely simplistic | 37 | 162 |
| 22% | extremely simplistic | 60 | 273 |
| 22% | extremely simplistic | 35 | 161 |
| 20% | extremely simplistic | 39 | 200 |
| 18% | extremely simplistic | 36 | 200 |
| 18% | extremely simplistic | 60 | 336 |
| 18% | extremely simplistic | 35 | 200 |
| 17% | extremely simplistic | 34 | 200 |
| 17% | extremely simplistic | 34 | 200 |
| 5% | extremely simplistic | 22 | 447 |
| 1% | extremely simplistic | 5 | 388 |
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
YAMCER
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 06:06 PM CDT
<<As Incarnation noted, there is only one case that doesn't fit the pattern: the Empath's scholarship class. (The sort order indicates that it should be intermediate, but it's basic.)>>
We know that location can be a factor in teaching... maybe change rooms?
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
We know that location can be a factor in teaching... maybe change rooms?
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
INCARNATION
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 06:10 PM CDT
The scholarship datum does seem to indicate that there are other factors, or that scholarship comparisons are bugged. But the assess results do seem to be a pretty accurate predictor of % differences, at this point.
There are bunch of possible explantions for the discrepancy. More data would be great to prove/disprove them. I'm way more interested than I should be now in what the mechanics actually are. I'm willing to tellexp anyone who'll reciprocate and help collect the needed data.
There are bunch of possible explantions for the discrepancy. More data would be great to prove/disprove them. I'm way more interested than I should be now in what the mechanics actually are. I'm willing to tellexp anyone who'll reciprocate and help collect the needed data.
ISHARON
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 08:53 PM CDT
>>Yamcer: We know that location can be a factor in teaching... maybe change rooms?
I gathered my data in the Crossing Dispensary, which does not have any teaching bonus that I am aware of, but perhaps I will run some tests in other areas.
>>Incarnation: There are bunch of possible explantions for the discrepancy. More data would be great to prove/disprove them. I'm way more interested than I should be now in what the mechanics actually are. I'm willing to tellexp anyone who'll reciprocate and help collect the needed data.
I'm willing to do that too. I'm usually in the Crossing area.
Or better yet, some merciful GM can take pity on us and tell us what the factors are. PAFO is only fun up to a point. :-)
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
I gathered my data in the Crossing Dispensary, which does not have any teaching bonus that I am aware of, but perhaps I will run some tests in other areas.
>>Incarnation: There are bunch of possible explantions for the discrepancy. More data would be great to prove/disprove them. I'm way more interested than I should be now in what the mechanics actually are. I'm willing to tellexp anyone who'll reciprocate and help collect the needed data.
I'm willing to do that too. I'm usually in the Crossing area.
Or better yet, some merciful GM can take pity on us and tell us what the factors are. PAFO is only fun up to a point. :-)
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
FALLENHOPE
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 10:31 PM CDT
While all this is very interesting I would like to see a change in the system. Remove the entire comparison. Change it to "interesting" or "boring" class. If the teachers skill is higher it would be an interesting class. If it's lower, it would be a boring class. This would also fit with how we learn more from people with higher skills.
You do an incredible backflip with a beautiful twist rotation, gaining nearly five feet of air and landing neatly on your feet without so much as a wobble!
You do an incredible backflip with a beautiful twist rotation, gaining nearly five feet of air and landing neatly on your feet without so much as a wobble!
YAMCER
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/17/2011 11:58 PM CDT
<<This would also fit with how we learn more from people with higher skills.>>
This has not been my experience. I learn more from teachers with higher teaching, not higher skill in the skill I'm learning.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
This has not been my experience. I learn more from teachers with higher teaching, not higher skill in the skill I'm learning.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
FALLENHOPE
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/18/2011 12:34 AM CDT
<<This would also fit with how we learn more from people with higher skills.>>
>This has not been my experience. I learn more from teachers with higher teaching, not higher skill in the skill I'm learning.
Even better. I always assumed it was greater skill in the subject being taught that made for a better class. With "interesting" or "boring" we wouldn't get a clue as to the teachers skill level as it refers to the subject, but rather a sense of their teaching skill.
You do an incredible backflip with a beautiful twist rotation, gaining nearly five feet of air and landing neatly on your feet without so much as a wobble!
>This has not been my experience. I learn more from teachers with higher teaching, not higher skill in the skill I'm learning.
Even better. I always assumed it was greater skill in the subject being taught that made for a better class. With "interesting" or "boring" we wouldn't get a clue as to the teachers skill level as it refers to the subject, but rather a sense of their teaching skill.
You do an incredible backflip with a beautiful twist rotation, gaining nearly five feet of air and landing neatly on your feet without so much as a wobble!
MOOK1
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/18/2011 01:24 AM CDT
Is the scholarship value maybe skewed because its one of the two classes (the other being Teaching) that have different weightings for experience earned? It might reflect the difference in learning rates for those classes.
-Evran
Moongate, Ressurection, and Fire Rain, Oh my!
-Evran
Moongate, Ressurection, and Fire Rain, Oh my!
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/18/2011 02:49 AM CDT
were other factors figured in as well? I know there still is a certain teach bonus for teaching if the 2 characters are of the same race/guild.
Explore the Final Frontier - the unknown calls
Explore the Final Frontier - the unknown calls
LEEJ82
Re: Assess teach ranges
08/18/2011 04:36 AM CDT
The difference in the rate at which you learn from someone with 580 teaching and 85 Charisma and someone with 575 teaching and 40 Charisma is not indicative of Teaching skill being a major factor in how quickly you learn. Charisma -- yours and the teacher's -- seems to be the primary determinant of how effective classes are.
