For the past several weeks, I'm lucky to find a room of silver in the Caverns of Glass, let alone platinum, lumium, or darkstone. I'd put it up to bad timing, but it's been weeks now with consistent prospecting. Is anyone else having the same result...stingy mines, or is it just me?
MRASMUSS
ILLIENA
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
03/03/2014 02:24 AM CST
I feel like I've seen the same thing, although I haven't collected any hard data. I imagine Kodius turned down the frequency of rares after too much rare material went out in HE.
YOFIE
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
03/03/2014 06:41 AM CST
i dunno, i've run into darkstone twice in as many days, lumium 3 times last weekend, and platinum this morning, perhaps its just the randomness.
Rehlyn
A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
Rehlyn
A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
ZUERCAT
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
03/03/2014 07:25 AM CST
I'm not seeing a noticeable decrease down in the Ilithi Ice Caves over the course of a week...couple niniam's (yey!), couple gold & electrum...think I've gotten 5 or 6 lumium this week too.
This is just an idea I've been floating around, no hard evidence to back it up, but I've always wondered if there isn't a "global" rare vein tracker, where at any given time, there can be x-number of uncommon, y-number of rare, z-number of very rare stuff available at any given time. So for instance, right now, somewhere in one of the mines across Elanthia is a harlun/kertig/glaes vein. Once someone mines it or it cycles out naturally from the rotation system, then another one has the potential to "spawn".
So, while obviously luck plays a part in mining and what cycles in again after a room is cleared, if my theory is (even kind of) correct, it could also be that the things you're looking for are already available, just in a different mine. And to further that, when your area is cycling in after a clear, it just doesn't have those rare items in the "pool" to choose from.
~Kythryn
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
This is just an idea I've been floating around, no hard evidence to back it up, but I've always wondered if there isn't a "global" rare vein tracker, where at any given time, there can be x-number of uncommon, y-number of rare, z-number of very rare stuff available at any given time. So for instance, right now, somewhere in one of the mines across Elanthia is a harlun/kertig/glaes vein. Once someone mines it or it cycles out naturally from the rotation system, then another one has the potential to "spawn".
So, while obviously luck plays a part in mining and what cycles in again after a room is cleared, if my theory is (even kind of) correct, it could also be that the things you're looking for are already available, just in a different mine. And to further that, when your area is cycling in after a clear, it just doesn't have those rare items in the "pool" to choose from.
~Kythryn
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
03/03/2014 10:16 AM CST
>>there can be x-number of uncommon, y-number of rare, z-number of very rare stuff available at any given time.
I don't think this is really the case. I think each room is independent of all the others. I'm basing this on anecdata, but when mining first came out a few Plat players were pretty good at hitting all the mines in a very small amount of time, which let them see what metals were everywhere in the world. Sometimes people would find a few v.rare in different areas of the world, sometimes there would be nothing anywhere.
If there was a global tracker, it's probably more for Kodius' benefit when it comes to seeing how much metal is in the world at a time.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I don't think this is really the case. I think each room is independent of all the others. I'm basing this on anecdata, but when mining first came out a few Plat players were pretty good at hitting all the mines in a very small amount of time, which let them see what metals were everywhere in the world. Sometimes people would find a few v.rare in different areas of the world, sometimes there would be nothing anywhere.
If there was a global tracker, it's probably more for Kodius' benefit when it comes to seeing how much metal is in the world at a time.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
CLEARLEAF
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/03/2014 04:27 PM CDT
>So, while obviously luck plays a part in mining and what cycles in again after a room is cleared, if my theory is (even kind of) correct, it could also be that the things you're looking for are already available, just in a different mine. And to further that, when your area is cycling in after a clear, it just doesn't have those rare items in the "pool" to choose from.
My hunch, based on 'anecdata' to use a Tev term, is that each mine area has a preponderance towards a certain rock type. This, then, affects the chances of certain rare types. I've found that the Ain Ghazal are mostly metamorphic and sedimentary, with rare igneous pops. Ice Caves (not much experience mind you) seems to pop more igneous rooms, Dirge more sedimentary, etc.
On the other hand, that sounds like a lot more work than necessary and the whole thing is probably just random. But like I said, just a hunch.
And not to diverge from the thread too much, but it would be cool to see some new rare rocks. It seems most of the 'high-end' rock is just from fests and such. Would be cool to see something drop from mines that fell somewhere between obsidian and diamondique.
My hunch, based on 'anecdata' to use a Tev term, is that each mine area has a preponderance towards a certain rock type. This, then, affects the chances of certain rare types. I've found that the Ain Ghazal are mostly metamorphic and sedimentary, with rare igneous pops. Ice Caves (not much experience mind you) seems to pop more igneous rooms, Dirge more sedimentary, etc.
On the other hand, that sounds like a lot more work than necessary and the whole thing is probably just random. But like I said, just a hunch.
And not to diverge from the thread too much, but it would be cool to see some new rare rocks. It seems most of the 'high-end' rock is just from fests and such. Would be cool to see something drop from mines that fell somewhere between obsidian and diamondique.
ILLIENA
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/03/2014 04:59 PM CDT
Mines definitely have an inclination for rock types. I log all my mining, and the data show a significant tendency for certain metals in certain mines, which is presumably entirely because of rock-type differences. Beyond that, I suspect the rooms generate independently.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/03/2014 07:14 PM CDT
>>I've found that the Ain Ghazal are mostly metamorphic and sedimentary, with rare igneous pops.
I'm pretty sure rooms are preset to be X type rooms, and the only thing that is determined by the RNG is what kind of mineral/metal pops in relation to that. It's the similar to an environmental flag for a room and how that is used to determine what you can forage.
>>Beyond that, I suspect the rooms generate independently.
This is correct. You could theoretically have a mine with nothing but rare mats.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I'm pretty sure rooms are preset to be X type rooms, and the only thing that is determined by the RNG is what kind of mineral/metal pops in relation to that. It's the similar to an environmental flag for a room and how that is used to determine what you can forage.
>>Beyond that, I suspect the rooms generate independently.
This is correct. You could theoretically have a mine with nothing but rare mats.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
CLEARLEAF
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/03/2014 07:50 PM CDT
>I'm pretty sure rooms are preset to be X type rooms, and the only thing that is determined by the RNG is what kind of mineral/metal pops in relation to that.
Hmm? No. I've stayed in the same room for hours and had it go from sedimentary to metamorphic, etc., as I mine it out repeatedly.
Hmm? No. I've stayed in the same room for hours and had it go from sedimentary to metamorphic, etc., as I mine it out repeatedly.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/03/2014 07:57 PM CDT
>>Hmm? No. I've stayed in the same room for hours and had it go from sedimentary to metamorphic, etc., as I mine it out repeatedly.
Weird. I've never seen the rooms in Wicked Burrow change.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Weird. I've never seen the rooms in Wicked Burrow change.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
CARAAMON
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/03/2014 07:59 PM CDT
As the first mine, I suspect Wicked Burrow is set to 1 type per room. I'd suspect it was test of concept mine.
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Weapons for Sale:
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SPANTONV
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/03/2014 09:44 PM CDT
Not true. In prime Wicked Burrow rock types change in the rooms too. In fact the estate holder only area the igneous rooms changed to metamorphic some time back and switch back and forth.
Regards,
Sortny/Braunwen
Regards,
Sortny/Braunwen
CLEARLEAF
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/03/2014 11:59 PM CDT
>Mines definitely have an inclination for rock types. I log all my mining, and the data show a significant tendency for certain metals in certain mines, which is presumably entirely because of rock-type differences. Beyond that, I suspect the rooms generate independently.
Awesome. Thanks Illiena, good to see there's data to back up my hypothesis. Now if only the CMS (or everyone) would do the same thing with cancer screening (or everything)...you know: listen to the scientists? <steps off recently (well okay, lifelong) po'd soapbox>
Uhhhhhhh, I don't suppose you'd be willing to share your logs? Email or whatever? I'm rather curious.
Now that I think on it, this aspect of the Genie frontend is the first time I've really considered taking the dive. That chunk of data would be handy.
Awesome. Thanks Illiena, good to see there's data to back up my hypothesis. Now if only the CMS (or everyone) would do the same thing with cancer screening (or everything)...you know: listen to the scientists? <steps off recently (well okay, lifelong) po'd soapbox>
Uhhhhhhh, I don't suppose you'd be willing to share your logs? Email or whatever? I'm rather curious.
Now that I think on it, this aspect of the Genie frontend is the first time I've really considered taking the dive. That chunk of data would be handy.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/04/2014 12:40 AM CDT
>>Not true. In prime Wicked Burrow rock types change in the rooms too. In fact the estate holder only area the igneous rooms changed to metamorphic some time back and switch back and forth.
Huh, maybe it's a Plat thing. I've never noticed rooms changing rock types. There are the two igneous rooms in the one corner of the estate holder only area and I've never seen differently.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Huh, maybe it's a Plat thing. I've never noticed rooms changing rock types. There are the two igneous rooms in the one corner of the estate holder only area and I've never seen differently.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ILLIENA
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/04/2014 02:55 AM CDT
> good to see there's data to back up my hypothesis.
I should clarify; I didn't actually log the room types, just the metals collected. But it'd be pretty easy to go gather some room data.
> Uhhhhhhh, I don't suppose you'd be willing to share your logs?
Sure. The full data is below, but here's the bit I think is relevant (the numbers for the other metals are too small for significance):
Aesry: 80.3% Silver, 6.2% Platinum, 2.5% Niniam, 7.1% Lumium, 2.1% Gold, 1.2% Electrum
Haven: 72.0% Silver, 10.6% Platinum, 6.8% Niniam, 3.1% Lumium, 6.4% Gold, 0.0% Electrum
Hib: 76.2% Silver, 10.3% Platinum, 1.8% Niniam, 7.4% Lumium, 2.6% Gold, 0.8% Electrum
Shard: 58.6% Silver, 2% Platinum, 9.3% Niniam, 7.2% Lumium, 13.6% Gold, 7.9% Electrum
For example, compare Shard with Hib. Shard favors igneous rooms while Hib favors metamorphic. Platinum is found in metamorphic but not igneous, while niniam, gold and electrum are found in igneous but not metamorphic.
Full data. I don't mine darkstone veins, and seldom mine muracite, so those two are artificially low:
Aesry:
animite,0
audrualm,0
damite,64
darkstone,35
electrum,739
glaes,57
gold,1359
haralun,62
kertig,42
lumium,4528
muracite,90
niniam,1614
orichalcum,0
platinum,3907
silver,50951
takibena,0
tyrium,0
vardite,0
Haven:
animite,27
audrualm,0
damite,60
darkstone,7
electrum,0
glaes,0
gold,1706
haralun,51
kertig,69
lumium,831
muracite,66
niniam,1806
orichalcum,0
platinum,2806
silver,19095
takibena,0
tyrium,0
vardite,0
Hib:
animite,2
audrualm,0
damite,145
darkstone,13
electrum,212
glaes,2
gold,721
haralun,56
kertig,55
lumium,2042
muracite,11
niniam,499
orichalcum,0
platinum,2849
silver,21168
takibena,0
tyrium,0
vardite,0
Shard:
animite,0
audrualm,0
damite,0
darkstone,0
electrum,2017
glaes,345
gold,3467
haralun,0
kertig,0
lumium,1846
muracite,0
niniam,2369
orichalcum,0
platinum,520
silver,14959
takibena,0
tyrium,0
vardite,0
I should clarify; I didn't actually log the room types, just the metals collected. But it'd be pretty easy to go gather some room data.
> Uhhhhhhh, I don't suppose you'd be willing to share your logs?
Sure. The full data is below, but here's the bit I think is relevant (the numbers for the other metals are too small for significance):
Aesry: 80.3% Silver, 6.2% Platinum, 2.5% Niniam, 7.1% Lumium, 2.1% Gold, 1.2% Electrum
Haven: 72.0% Silver, 10.6% Platinum, 6.8% Niniam, 3.1% Lumium, 6.4% Gold, 0.0% Electrum
Hib: 76.2% Silver, 10.3% Platinum, 1.8% Niniam, 7.4% Lumium, 2.6% Gold, 0.8% Electrum
Shard: 58.6% Silver, 2% Platinum, 9.3% Niniam, 7.2% Lumium, 13.6% Gold, 7.9% Electrum
For example, compare Shard with Hib. Shard favors igneous rooms while Hib favors metamorphic. Platinum is found in metamorphic but not igneous, while niniam, gold and electrum are found in igneous but not metamorphic.
Full data. I don't mine darkstone veins, and seldom mine muracite, so those two are artificially low:
Aesry:
animite,0
audrualm,0
damite,64
darkstone,35
electrum,739
glaes,57
gold,1359
haralun,62
kertig,42
lumium,4528
muracite,90
niniam,1614
orichalcum,0
platinum,3907
silver,50951
takibena,0
tyrium,0
vardite,0
Haven:
animite,27
audrualm,0
damite,60
darkstone,7
electrum,0
glaes,0
gold,1706
haralun,51
kertig,69
lumium,831
muracite,66
niniam,1806
orichalcum,0
platinum,2806
silver,19095
takibena,0
tyrium,0
vardite,0
Hib:
animite,2
audrualm,0
damite,145
darkstone,13
electrum,212
glaes,2
gold,721
haralun,56
kertig,55
lumium,2042
muracite,11
niniam,499
orichalcum,0
platinum,2849
silver,21168
takibena,0
tyrium,0
vardite,0
Shard:
animite,0
audrualm,0
damite,0
darkstone,0
electrum,2017
glaes,345
gold,3467
haralun,0
kertig,0
lumium,1846
muracite,0
niniam,2369
orichalcum,0
platinum,520
silver,14959
takibena,0
tyrium,0
vardite,0
CARAAMON
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/04/2014 03:11 AM CDT
A few rooms in the estate holder area do switch, but the rest of the mine doesn't.
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Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
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SCHULTZS3
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/04/2014 06:26 AM CDT
That's a lot of silver.
Kaeta Airtag
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Kaeta Airtag
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
ILLIENA
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/04/2014 06:40 AM CDT
I do armorsmithing workorders, and I use a richer mix than most people. I need a lot of silver.
GRIM45
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/04/2014 09:07 AM CDT
Out of curiosity, what is your % silver? I did some basic tests that showed a dramatic drop off past 20% silver in value/volume (at least for bronze).
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
ILLIENA
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/04/2014 09:15 AM CDT
62.5%. When I was tracking payouts, I didn't see a significant drop in payout/ingot value until about 1400 lirums/vol. 62.5% hits 1300 lirums/vol.
GRIM45
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/04/2014 09:30 AM CDT
Hmmm.. wonder if it's different for different disciplines. My tracking was on blacksmithing, not armorsmithing.
Unfortunately I lost all my data because it was on a laptop that went belly up last year (stupid escalators), and I don't have the patience anymore to mine hardcore for silver to do more testing.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Unfortunately I lost all my data because it was on a laptop that went belly up last year (stupid escalators), and I don't have the patience anymore to mine hardcore for silver to do more testing.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
ZUERCAT
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/04/2014 12:10 PM CDT
A few rooms in the Ice Caves (the dancer part, not the sections on either side of the river, that is always igneous), Abandoned Mine (Hib) and out in Fang Cove will change rock type too.
~Kythryn
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
~Kythryn
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
CLEARLEAF
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/04/2014 10:35 PM CDT
>I should clarify; I didn't actually log the room types, just the metals collected. But it'd be pretty easy to go gather some room data.
Thanks for the clarification. Also, as you show in the rest of your post, it's fairly straightforward to extrapolate room composition from the metal volumes you show. There's some self-selection bias so to speak, but all the same useful data.
I assume Hib means the Abandoned Mines with the retch fiends, not Ain Ghazal.
>A few rooms in the Ice Caves (the dancer part, not the sections on either side of the river, that is always igneous...
I have to say the 'static room' piece is sort of surprising. I had noticed that the room where you go SPLAT in the Abandoned Mines, just through the chute, almost always appears to be igneous. I want to say I've seen sedimentary once, but I could be mistaken. I always assumed it was an 'igneous heavy' area and I've just been victim of the RNG in that room.
I wouldn't be surprised if these static rooms weren't truly static but rather had a 99.5% (or something) chance of generating a certain rock type. With a 0.5% chance you could potentially mine out a room 500 times over and never see anything different.
One thing this thread has revealed is just how much work Kodius has pored into this system. Not surprising, but still, hats off yet again sir.
Thanks for the clarification. Also, as you show in the rest of your post, it's fairly straightforward to extrapolate room composition from the metal volumes you show. There's some self-selection bias so to speak, but all the same useful data.
I assume Hib means the Abandoned Mines with the retch fiends, not Ain Ghazal.
>A few rooms in the Ice Caves (the dancer part, not the sections on either side of the river, that is always igneous...
I have to say the 'static room' piece is sort of surprising. I had noticed that the room where you go SPLAT in the Abandoned Mines, just through the chute, almost always appears to be igneous. I want to say I've seen sedimentary once, but I could be mistaken. I always assumed it was an 'igneous heavy' area and I've just been victim of the RNG in that room.
I wouldn't be surprised if these static rooms weren't truly static but rather had a 99.5% (or something) chance of generating a certain rock type. With a 0.5% chance you could potentially mine out a room 500 times over and never see anything different.
One thing this thread has revealed is just how much work Kodius has pored into this system. Not surprising, but still, hats off yet again sir.
ILLIENA
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/05/2014 12:49 PM CDT
> I assume Hib means the Abandoned Mines with the retch fiends, not Ain Ghazal.
Correct.
I added rock-type tracking to my script, and here's what I've seen so far.
Aesry:
igneous,18
metamorphic,111
sedimentary,19
Haven:
igneous,0
metamorphic,86
sedimentary,77
Hib:
igneous,1
metamorphic,39
sedimentary,7
Shard (I only mine the pre-dancer part):
igneous,16
metamorphic,0
sedimentary,0
Correct.
I added rock-type tracking to my script, and here's what I've seen so far.
Aesry:
igneous,18
metamorphic,111
sedimentary,19
Haven:
igneous,0
metamorphic,86
sedimentary,77
Hib:
igneous,1
metamorphic,39
sedimentary,7
Shard (I only mine the pre-dancer part):
igneous,16
metamorphic,0
sedimentary,0
CLEARLEAF
Re: Where'd the better metals go?
05/06/2014 10:10 PM CDT
Cool. Just eyeballing it looks like it lines up with the metal data.
Wish I had more time to mine. Everything points to me finding damite where I mine, but I'm always stuck with stinky kertig. Peee-uuuu.
Wish I had more time to mine. Everything points to me finding damite where I mine, but I'm always stuck with stinky kertig. Peee-uuuu.
