Does material/weight/density affect hindrance values on metal armor?
THELOST1
NINEVAH1
THELOST1
Re: Quick question
11/11/2013 06:57 AM CST
Thank you!
Followup, are there any advantages/disadvantages to having a single piece of body armor plus gloves/helm versus piecemeal body coverage, if one cares nothing for mixing armors?
Excepting the obvious bonus of only having to keep track of one piece, that is.
Followup, are there any advantages/disadvantages to having a single piece of body armor plus gloves/helm versus piecemeal body coverage, if one cares nothing for mixing armors?
Excepting the obvious bonus of only having to keep track of one piece, that is.
RAIST
Re: Quick question
11/11/2013 08:25 AM CST
>Followup, are there any advantages/disadvantages to having a single piece of body armor plus gloves/helm versus piecemeal body coverage, if one cares nothing for mixing armors?
Speaking solely for forged armor, beyond the item count bonus, not really. You could say there is a small one, since armor size doesn't affect durability pool. 4 hits on chest armor + 4 on back armor > 8 on chest/back combo armor. But I'm not sure this is really worth the added effort, YMMV.
For non-forged armor, generally more pieces = more hindrance.
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Speaking solely for forged armor, beyond the item count bonus, not really. You could say there is a small one, since armor size doesn't affect durability pool. 4 hits on chest armor + 4 on back armor > 8 on chest/back combo armor. But I'm not sure this is really worth the added effort, YMMV.
For non-forged armor, generally more pieces = more hindrance.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
ILLIENA
Re: Quick question
11/11/2013 08:51 AM CST
It should also be noted that single piece crafted armor often requires more material to make than piecemeal armor. If you're going with steel, this is trivial, but if you're using rare metals, this can be significant.
ELRIIC
Re: Quick question
11/11/2013 02:12 PM CST
Kodius stated in the past when this was discussed that overall hinderance goes down slightly with piecemeal parts from the same armor.
Can't search the forums but I'm positive he said that.
--
In memory of Lisa/Martee. Passed 6/17/2013. A friend. A sister.
Can't search the forums but I'm positive he said that.
--
In memory of Lisa/Martee. Passed 6/17/2013. A friend. A sister.
THELOST1
Re: Quick question
11/11/2013 02:48 PM CST
Hmmmm.
Good info! Is anyone able to confirm the hindrance bit?
Good info! Is anyone able to confirm the hindrance bit?
ISHARON
Re: Quick question
11/11/2013 04:49 PM CST
>>Thelost1: Good info! Is anyone able to confirm the hindrance bit?
While searching archived posts on Elanthipedia, I found the following GM comments about hindrance and piecemeal armor.
"Types are also consistent between all individual pieces. In old armor, chain greaves would vastly differ from a chain hauberk - and the sum of the pieces was often vastly different than a whole... in new armor you should get near identical hindrance and defenses from types of the same name (assuming they are of the same material)." --Kodius (7/16/2011)
"All items have been rebalanced so each area of coverage has a base hinderance and a base weight. Multi-covering items just sum these together, plus a bit of added weight as a detractor from always using hauberks. Protection and Absorption are based on the class, material and ore used to create the armor. What I am saying is, armor made of a collection of pieces (aventail, lorica, vambrances) is now entirely possible without sacrificing hinderance or protection." --Kodius (5/5/2011)
"There is no armor mixing penalty to stealth hindrance." --Zeyurn (8/7/2009)
Elanthipedia post query: http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/Special:SearchByProperty/Post-20relates-20to/
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While searching archived posts on Elanthipedia, I found the following GM comments about hindrance and piecemeal armor.
"Types are also consistent between all individual pieces. In old armor, chain greaves would vastly differ from a chain hauberk - and the sum of the pieces was often vastly different than a whole... in new armor you should get near identical hindrance and defenses from types of the same name (assuming they are of the same material)." --Kodius (7/16/2011)
"All items have been rebalanced so each area of coverage has a base hinderance and a base weight. Multi-covering items just sum these together, plus a bit of added weight as a detractor from always using hauberks. Protection and Absorption are based on the class, material and ore used to create the armor. What I am saying is, armor made of a collection of pieces (aventail, lorica, vambrances) is now entirely possible without sacrificing hinderance or protection." --Kodius (5/5/2011)
"There is no armor mixing penalty to stealth hindrance." --Zeyurn (8/7/2009)
Elanthipedia post query: http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/Special:SearchByProperty/Post-20relates-20to/
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
POWERHAUS
Re: Quick question
11/11/2013 05:26 PM CST
IIRC he's also said the a full suit protects better than piecemeal, and even if you don't see it, it is - otherwise it'd be all robes and sleaves - lowest volume, and total hinderance I believe.
It'd make sense that given the extra weight, and volumes, that a hauberk protects better than a robe, shirt, etc... you can kind of see it in things like head helms and eye-masks compared to a full helm, where they don't app as well, even though they're the same material and density.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
It'd make sense that given the extra weight, and volumes, that a hauberk protects better than a robe, shirt, etc... you can kind of see it in things like head helms and eye-masks compared to a full helm, where they don't app as well, even though they're the same material and density.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
SHADOW7988
Re: Quick question
11/11/2013 05:30 PM CST
>IIRC he's also said the a full suit protects better than piecemeal, and even if you don't see it, it is - otherwise it'd be all robes and sleaves - lowest volume, and total hinderance I believe.
>It'd make sense that given the extra weight, and volumes, that a hauberk protects better than a robe, shirt, etc... you can kind of see it in things like head helms and eye-masks compared to a full helm, where they don't app as well, even though they're the same material and density.
You sure about these Powerhaus? I'm fairly sure that I'm recalling that the reason that piecemeal items are less weight and less volumes is because it is offset with more roundtime when putting it all on in combat.
There is no other benefit to putting more weight and volume (which was argued about before that it makes less sense, since realistically you should need more on piecemeal to allow for overlapping the connecting areas to not offer any weak seams, open areas to be attacked).
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
>It'd make sense that given the extra weight, and volumes, that a hauberk protects better than a robe, shirt, etc... you can kind of see it in things like head helms and eye-masks compared to a full helm, where they don't app as well, even though they're the same material and density.
You sure about these Powerhaus? I'm fairly sure that I'm recalling that the reason that piecemeal items are less weight and less volumes is because it is offset with more roundtime when putting it all on in combat.
There is no other benefit to putting more weight and volume (which was argued about before that it makes less sense, since realistically you should need more on piecemeal to allow for overlapping the connecting areas to not offer any weak seams, open areas to be attacked).
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
POWERHAUS
Re: Quick question
11/11/2013 05:54 PM CST
>>I'm fairly sure that I'm recalling that the reason that piecemeal items are less weight and less volumes is because it is offset with more roundtime when putting it all on in combat.
That was from the discussion of changes to Naphtha back in May('Changes to Naphtha', combat folder I think), and nothing was every really clarified. He seemed to imply the only benefit of a hauberk over piecemeal was that it was easier/faster to wear or change out at the penalty of weight, hinderance, and material - that doesn't seem right to me though.
>>Quotes from over a year ago
also I'm not sure anything quoted from him 2 years ago would still be true? Was that before smithing was even out?
here's some of the comments from that Naphtha thread-
"Having only a single pool of durability to pull from is an intended disadvantage to body armor." -Kodius
I haven't fiddled with armor a ton, but is this to balance something else besides a lower item count? -Caraamon
"In general I tried to make it so piecemeal sets offer slightly reduced weight over full body armor. Afterall, you need to add some extra stitching/ringlets/plates to hold the body armor together. This just gives piecemeal an edge for the powergamer, yet keeps convenience and cost (of materials) down for folks wanting the body armor." -Kodius
"I'm a tad confused. Piecemeal has lower weight and multiple durability pools, all to offset a convenience penalty which can be pretty easily removed via scripting?
Unless I'm missing something, that seems a bit lopsided." - Caraamon
"Sure, not everyone scripts. Even scripts take some time to do their thing. Managing multiple items is more complicated :shrug: Its not much, hence why the difference isn't too substantial. Just a little something for those who like complexity." -Kodius
And I shared my comment I shared with you earlier, and Codiax had the same opinion about the extra probably invisible bump to protection.
"I'd think piecemeal would have more material used, unless there's like gaps, like the sleeves are shorter or something.
Usually it's easier and less material(least for smithed armor) to piecemeal it, than making a full suit. Robe and sleeves and bala is what I was looking into for Damite chain for highest protection and least overall material/hinerance.
I have noticed that sometimes eyemasks or cap come out worse than the bala or helm made from the same material with the same template- this was when I was using 87 or 88 steel and some other things.
Also I think K mentioned having a full suit would benefit/protect better than piecemeal once a year ago?
If it's using more material, maybe there's a slight minor bump in protection benefit as well? to go along with the extra weight and hinderance too?
It's probably usually too minor to notice, except in things that land on the edge of an app range?"
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
That was from the discussion of changes to Naphtha back in May('Changes to Naphtha', combat folder I think), and nothing was every really clarified. He seemed to imply the only benefit of a hauberk over piecemeal was that it was easier/faster to wear or change out at the penalty of weight, hinderance, and material - that doesn't seem right to me though.
>>Quotes from over a year ago
also I'm not sure anything quoted from him 2 years ago would still be true? Was that before smithing was even out?
here's some of the comments from that Naphtha thread-
"Having only a single pool of durability to pull from is an intended disadvantage to body armor." -Kodius
I haven't fiddled with armor a ton, but is this to balance something else besides a lower item count? -Caraamon
"In general I tried to make it so piecemeal sets offer slightly reduced weight over full body armor. Afterall, you need to add some extra stitching/ringlets/plates to hold the body armor together. This just gives piecemeal an edge for the powergamer, yet keeps convenience and cost (of materials) down for folks wanting the body armor." -Kodius
"I'm a tad confused. Piecemeal has lower weight and multiple durability pools, all to offset a convenience penalty which can be pretty easily removed via scripting?
Unless I'm missing something, that seems a bit lopsided." - Caraamon
"Sure, not everyone scripts. Even scripts take some time to do their thing. Managing multiple items is more complicated :shrug: Its not much, hence why the difference isn't too substantial. Just a little something for those who like complexity." -Kodius
And I shared my comment I shared with you earlier, and Codiax had the same opinion about the extra probably invisible bump to protection.
"I'd think piecemeal would have more material used, unless there's like gaps, like the sleeves are shorter or something.
Usually it's easier and less material(least for smithed armor) to piecemeal it, than making a full suit. Robe and sleeves and bala is what I was looking into for Damite chain for highest protection and least overall material/hinerance.
I have noticed that sometimes eyemasks or cap come out worse than the bala or helm made from the same material with the same template- this was when I was using 87 or 88 steel and some other things.
Also I think K mentioned having a full suit would benefit/protect better than piecemeal once a year ago?
If it's using more material, maybe there's a slight minor bump in protection benefit as well? to go along with the extra weight and hinderance too?
It's probably usually too minor to notice, except in things that land on the edge of an app range?"
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
SHADOW7988
Re: Quick question
11/11/2013 07:47 PM CST
I'm glad I gave that a full read, and it is all stuff I'd like to know more of.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Quick question
04/19/2014 09:39 PM CDT
Mathematically it should work out that more pieces = less weight. I checked and it holds true for metal armors. Not sure how I ended up balancing it for light armor.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
