I moved down 20 workability and that put me ~30% more experience gained. (It definately wasn't that big of a gain before) The item I was making was masterful until I hit the tub or oil part, not sure which it was that put it to outstanding.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
MARTINCOTY77
DR-KODIUS
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/08/2013 09:04 PM CDT
That sounds pretty nice. A 25-30% exp bonus should hopefully alleviate the concerns of crafting being too slow...
Note - this wasn't a full rewrite! I just made whatever changes I could manage into a 4-hour cram session this morning.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Note - this wasn't a full rewrite! I just made whatever changes I could manage into a 4-hour cram session this morning.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
REASONMJ
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/09/2013 05:38 PM CDT
>>Moved the bell-curve back a bit
>>Increased the bell's height by 15% (this is an exp bonus over the old system)
>>Made the bell drop off slightly faster
I'm loving the changes so far, particularly #2 for obvious reasons. Between that boost, and better optimizing which material workability I use, I was able to get a +30% boost to exp gain for Forging which cut my "time to mindlock" from 75 minutes down to 30.
One thing I'm not particularly a fan of is that between the combination of #1 and #3, it's basically impossible now to learn anything while crafting items to sell. It was a really nice bonus when items that were 1 or 2 difficulty tiers below optimal for training would still teach a bit. But I suppose if the intention is to make crafting to sell and crafting to train mutually exclusive, then I suppose that isn't really that big of a deal.
>>Fixed Carving's workability calculation. It should now match the other 4 crafting Disciplines.
So this means that now the ranks required for making a masterfully crafted item of difficulty tier X and material workability Y should be more-or-less constant for Forging, Carving and Outfitting? I still suspect this is not the case for Outfitting, but I haven't tested that yet since the changes
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
>>Increased the bell's height by 15% (this is an exp bonus over the old system)
>>Made the bell drop off slightly faster
I'm loving the changes so far, particularly #2 for obvious reasons. Between that boost, and better optimizing which material workability I use, I was able to get a +30% boost to exp gain for Forging which cut my "time to mindlock" from 75 minutes down to 30.
One thing I'm not particularly a fan of is that between the combination of #1 and #3, it's basically impossible now to learn anything while crafting items to sell. It was a really nice bonus when items that were 1 or 2 difficulty tiers below optimal for training would still teach a bit. But I suppose if the intention is to make crafting to sell and crafting to train mutually exclusive, then I suppose that isn't really that big of a deal.
>>Fixed Carving's workability calculation. It should now match the other 4 crafting Disciplines.
So this means that now the ranks required for making a masterfully crafted item of difficulty tier X and material workability Y should be more-or-less constant for Forging, Carving and Outfitting? I still suspect this is not the case for Outfitting, but I haven't tested that yet since the changes
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
DR-KODIUS
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/09/2013 06:35 PM CDT
Howdy Apu. It isn't a design decision to make training and work orders mutually exclusive. In your case I believe the problem to be a lack of higher tier items? Despite the bell moving back, the EXP boost should allow people to get approximately the same experience as before on items to sell. How much skill and what difficulty orders and what material are you using for this observation?
The workability for all crafting systems should function identically. Please let me know if you perceive something being off here.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
The workability for all crafting systems should function identically. Please let me know if you perceive something being off here.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
LAMBL
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/11/2013 07:12 PM CDT
Just wanted to chime in with a huge "thank you" for this. I'm able to learn pretty reasonably now. Huzzah!
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
GRANTJ47
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/11/2013 07:47 PM CDT
With 925 in outfitting, its taking 24 minutes to lock where it use to take me over 60 minutes. This with using store bought cloth, so probably not optimizing experience.
Abison/Rystien
Abison/Rystien
SCHULTZS3
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/13/2013 05:20 PM CDT
Done a lot more experimentation on experience. It seems that it's still not best for me to hit the hardest thing I can manage in terms of workability for that tier. But things are far more improved. It feels kind of different if I step across tiers though.
For example, the best thing for me to get exp on now is 80 workability Tier 11 needles, at about 10.32%/item. 75 workability comes in at 10.12% or so.
Meanwhile, Tier 10 stuff ranges from 6.24% (easy lead) up to a little over 9% before dropping down for not mastercrafting, with most of it in the 8.6% range (50/70 workability).
On thinking about it, I suppose I shouldn't push too much for "hardest teaches best", if people without techniques or careers have to deal with the same exp curve.
For 4 hours of GM work, it's a hell of an improvement.
Naniaki Felyran
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
For example, the best thing for me to get exp on now is 80 workability Tier 11 needles, at about 10.32%/item. 75 workability comes in at 10.12% or so.
Meanwhile, Tier 10 stuff ranges from 6.24% (easy lead) up to a little over 9% before dropping down for not mastercrafting, with most of it in the 8.6% range (50/70 workability).
On thinking about it, I suppose I shouldn't push too much for "hardest teaches best", if people without techniques or careers have to deal with the same exp curve.
For 4 hours of GM work, it's a hell of an improvement.
Naniaki Felyran
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
DREAMWEAVER
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/13/2013 09:24 PM CDT
I am one of those attempting to carve without a career, hobby, or (many) techniques. It is becoming very difficult to accomplish. Up until recently, I was always able to ask for hard work, but I cannot any longer, she gives me things so hopelessly beyond my skills it is laughable. And that is with a fairly potent Whispers of the Muse going. And I understand it all just got even more difficult recently. :(
With less than half the crafting choices rolled out, I am hoping that this does not get any more difficult for those of us who are waiting on several unfinished things.
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
With less than half the crafting choices rolled out, I am hoping that this does not get any more difficult for those of us who are waiting on several unfinished things.
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
REASONMJ
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/13/2013 09:39 PM CDT
>>I am one of those attempting to carve without a career, hobby, or (many) techniques. It is becoming very difficult to accomplish. Up until recently, I was always able to ask for hard work, but I cannot any longer, she gives me things so hopelessly beyond my skills it is laughable.
Hard work orders should easily be doable without a career or hobby - although techniques will obviously be required. If you post skill ranks and chosen techniques, we could probably figure out what will work best to craft
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Hard work orders should easily be doable without a career or hobby - although techniques will obviously be required. If you post skill ranks and chosen techniques, we could probably figure out what will work best to craft
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
DREAMWEAVER
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/13/2013 11:43 PM CDT
I've been having this trouble since Chapter 10 was introduced.
From the carving crafting discipline you have been trained in Basic Stone Splitting, Basic Bone Collecting, Improvised Bone Weaponry, and Sophisticated Bone Weaponry.
Engineering: 208 57.72%
And I'd offer you specifics about my Whispers of the Muse, but I have no idea how to tell how effective it is. I sing it as big as I can, it lasts around 33 minutes.
If that stone technique were not so horrendously expensive to take back, I would take it back in a heartbeat. Carving stone is the most inconvenient thing I have ever seen. As soon as I learned I could take bones with me anywhere, I switched to bones.
She was handing me work orders that I have no hope of completing at least 50% of the time, maybe more. :( I keep trying to remind her that she knows exactly what I can do and should be able to do and maybe she could reconsider ... but it falls on deaf ears.
And this weekend, it all just got so much worse. I can carve hand swords, shivs, and mallets all day long, but that does not help with work orders.
I'm very discouraged. Braiding vines is more fun than this. And we all know how much fun that is...
Thank you Apu.
P.S. I use forged tools, they are good steel (yours and Hitoshi's), but I hardly ever let them get to "good" condition. And I use masterful goblin bones, unless it is something someone is actually going to use, of course. :)
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
From the carving crafting discipline you have been trained in Basic Stone Splitting, Basic Bone Collecting, Improvised Bone Weaponry, and Sophisticated Bone Weaponry.
Engineering: 208 57.72%
And I'd offer you specifics about my Whispers of the Muse, but I have no idea how to tell how effective it is. I sing it as big as I can, it lasts around 33 minutes.
If that stone technique were not so horrendously expensive to take back, I would take it back in a heartbeat. Carving stone is the most inconvenient thing I have ever seen. As soon as I learned I could take bones with me anywhere, I switched to bones.
She was handing me work orders that I have no hope of completing at least 50% of the time, maybe more. :( I keep trying to remind her that she knows exactly what I can do and should be able to do and maybe she could reconsider ... but it falls on deaf ears.
And this weekend, it all just got so much worse. I can carve hand swords, shivs, and mallets all day long, but that does not help with work orders.
I'm very discouraged. Braiding vines is more fun than this. And we all know how much fun that is...
Thank you Apu.
P.S. I use forged tools, they are good steel (yours and Hitoshi's), but I hardly ever let them get to "good" condition. And I use masterful goblin bones, unless it is something someone is actually going to use, of course. :)
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
POWERHAUS
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 12:18 AM CDT
I think you're on a cusp, where it rolls over, and the hard might just be too hard for WO for 15-20 ranks.
For rocks, the alabaster's great, soapstone's better.
Carved Material Detailing will give you a phantom bonus to lame stone and bone material, anything over 80 workability might as well be 99. Plus you get proper tool care, which makes up for having lame store-bought polish.
For work orders, I'd recommend dropping the weapons tech, and getting decorative bone carving. Accessory pieces will show up more often, and they only use 3-5 pieces of bones instead of whatever armor or weapon need. Not a guarnatee, but it helps alleviate massive waste, plus the bonus to your project.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
For rocks, the alabaster's great, soapstone's better.
Carved Material Detailing will give you a phantom bonus to lame stone and bone material, anything over 80 workability might as well be 99. Plus you get proper tool care, which makes up for having lame store-bought polish.
For work orders, I'd recommend dropping the weapons tech, and getting decorative bone carving. Accessory pieces will show up more often, and they only use 3-5 pieces of bones instead of whatever armor or weapon need. Not a guarnatee, but it helps alleviate massive waste, plus the bonus to your project.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
REASONMJ
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 12:22 AM CDT
>>I can carve hand swords, shivs, and mallets all day long, but that does not help with work orders.
At 208 ranks I would think you should get hard work orders of Somewhat Challenging difficulty, which sometimes includes Mallets. If the problem is just that you only get work orders for Mallets half the time but the rest of the time you get items that you don't have the techniques for, you can always just ask for a new work order until you get Mallets. What I generally do is choose what item I like to make (in your case, sounds like mallets), and then crank those out exclusively, and just ask for work orders to turn in my items after I'm done
Also, now that I actually checked bonecrafting supplies, I suppose there may actually be small gaps where you can't complete ANY hard work orders, right when you hit a new tier, since the easiest storebought Bone material is workability 60, and other crafts are usually 70-90. I would guess though that the only painful transitions would be at 601 ranks and 1001 ranks.
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
At 208 ranks I would think you should get hard work orders of Somewhat Challenging difficulty, which sometimes includes Mallets. If the problem is just that you only get work orders for Mallets half the time but the rest of the time you get items that you don't have the techniques for, you can always just ask for a new work order until you get Mallets. What I generally do is choose what item I like to make (in your case, sounds like mallets), and then crank those out exclusively, and just ask for work orders to turn in my items after I'm done
Also, now that I actually checked bonecrafting supplies, I suppose there may actually be small gaps where you can't complete ANY hard work orders, right when you hit a new tier, since the easiest storebought Bone material is workability 60, and other crafts are usually 70-90. I would guess though that the only painful transitions would be at 601 ranks and 1001 ranks.
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
DREAMWEAVER
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 01:14 AM CDT
I guess I am getting somewhat difficult things, it is just that anything besides the bone weapons are utterly impossible to carve. Hmmm, it sort of seems like cheating to keep asking for new work until you have one you can do. But if that is how they designed it ...
Thank you Powerhaus and Apu.
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Thank you Powerhaus and Apu.
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
POWERHAUS
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 01:37 AM CDT
not really- personally i wanna stab the engineering lady in the throat when she asks for 6 stone tables 3-4 times in a row...
I used to just carry pebbles around, and carve beads, then wait til I got that and hand em in as soon as I got the order.
and no problem.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
I used to just carry pebbles around, and carve beads, then wait til I got that and hand em in as soon as I got the order.
and no problem.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 06:39 AM CDT
>>not really- personally i wanna stab the engineering lady in the throat when she asks for 6 stone tables 3-4 times in a row...
Maybe there should be some sort of function in place, that if a WO is for an item with a large amount of material it "tends" to need a lower number of items. (2-3) instead of being equally able to pick up 5-6.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
Maybe there should be some sort of function in place, that if a WO is for an item with a large amount of material it "tends" to need a lower number of items. (2-3) instead of being equally able to pick up 5-6.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
NINEVAH1
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 10:12 AM CDT
>>Maybe there should be some sort of function in place, that if a WO is for an item with a large amount of material it "tends" to need a lower number of items. (2-3) instead of being equally able to pick up 5-6.
I like this.
I like this.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 10:41 AM CDT
>>I guess I am getting somewhat difficult things, it is just that anything besides the bone weapons are utterly impossible to carve. Hmmm, it sort of seems like cheating to keep asking for new work until you have one you can do. But if that is how they designed it ...
I explicitly learned a bone carving tech to weigh my work orders toward bone. Bone is so much easier to manage than stone. SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO much easier.
What, you mean I can either walk around with one stack of bones that I can deed when needed as opposed to juggling a bag full deeds that have random sized rocks that I might not even be able to use depending on what work order I'm doing? Hrm...
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
I explicitly learned a bone carving tech to weigh my work orders toward bone. Bone is so much easier to manage than stone. SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO much easier.
What, you mean I can either walk around with one stack of bones that I can deed when needed as opposed to juggling a bag full deeds that have random sized rocks that I might not even be able to use depending on what work order I'm doing? Hrm...
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
MINDTAKER
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 11:00 AM CDT
<<I explicitly learned a bone carving tech to weigh my work orders toward bone. Bone is so much easier to manage than stone. SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO much easier.
Yeah! As someone who ground up to ~150 both ways I agree. Plus, speaking of my experience only doing Accessory and Extremity Armor work orders, the payout is much much better. Stone spheres and beads would often lose me money or reward only a few gold. And I'd rejoice when I saw a stirring rod. : /
I do miss mining for expensive stone, but I doubt I'll go back.
Yeah! As someone who ground up to ~150 both ways I agree. Plus, speaking of my experience only doing Accessory and Extremity Armor work orders, the payout is much much better. Stone spheres and beads would often lose me money or reward only a few gold. And I'd rejoice when I saw a stirring rod. : /
I do miss mining for expensive stone, but I doubt I'll go back.
DRTYPRIOR
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 01:43 PM CDT
>>>Maybe there should be some sort of function in place, that if a WO is for an item with a large amount of material it "tends" to need a lower number of items. (2-3) instead of being equally able to pick up 5-6.
I could have sworn Kodius said something like this was in effect awhile back. Anyone else remember that?
Captain Jack: "Who looks at a screwdriver and thinks 'Oooh, this could be a little more sonic'?"
The Doctor: "What? You never been bored? Never had a long night? Never had a lot of cabinets to put up?"
I could have sworn Kodius said something like this was in effect awhile back. Anyone else remember that?
Captain Jack: "Who looks at a screwdriver and thinks 'Oooh, this could be a little more sonic'?"
The Doctor: "What? You never been bored? Never had a long night? Never had a lot of cabinets to put up?"
REASONMJ
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 06:49 PM CDT
>>I explicitly learned a bone carving tech to weigh my work orders toward bone. Bone is so much easier to manage than stone. SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO much easier.
I strongly prefer stonecarving over bone for a couple reasons:
Chisels available in glaes; fastest bonesaws are medium C steel
Storebought stone has 90, 60, 40 workability options; bone only has 60, 55
Bonecarving does have a huge advantage in portability though - and also past 1000 ranks it is the only option for training Engineering. So both have advantages, which is good
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
I strongly prefer stonecarving over bone for a couple reasons:
Chisels available in glaes; fastest bonesaws are medium C steel
Storebought stone has 90, 60, 40 workability options; bone only has 60, 55
Bonecarving does have a huge advantage in portability though - and also past 1000 ranks it is the only option for training Engineering. So both have advantages, which is good
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
GRIM45
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 07:20 PM CDT
>>Chisels available in glaes; fastest bonesaws are medium C steel
Wat?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Wat?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 07:21 PM CDT
>>Chisels available in glaes; fastest bonesaws are medium C steel
Why are the fastest bonesaws medium C steel? It just uses physical resistance, right? The higher the better?
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Why are the fastest bonesaws medium C steel? It just uses physical resistance, right? The higher the better?
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
REASONMJ
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/14/2013 07:24 PM CDT
>>Why are the fastest bonesaws medium C steel?
Fastest available at the moment in masterfully crafted quality, I meant to say. Bonesaws (and sewing needles) are much harder to make
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Fastest available at the moment in masterfully crafted quality, I meant to say. Bonesaws (and sewing needles) are much harder to make
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Crafting Experience Adjustments
06/15/2013 01:08 AM CDT
>>Fastest available at the moment in masterfully crafted quality, I meant to say. Bonesaws (and sewing needles) are much harder to make
Got ya. I thought there was more to what made a good bone saw beyond "high physical", sorta like how stirring rods are a bit more complex in material needs.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Got ya. I thought there was more to what made a good bone saw beyond "high physical", sorta like how stirring rods are a bit more complex in material needs.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
