>Is there any way armor/tool/weapon repair can be adjusted so it doesn't take so long?

Reduced time to repair seems to be one of the major benefits of the respective techs. I think it's intended.

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Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

>I may be missing your point. I do have all the techs, though.

Huh? It takes me maybe 3 or 4 minutes to repair all my tools, if even that. Are weapons and armor that much longer?

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Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

I agree, the store repairs should take way way longer.

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Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

<<I think the issue is more that the repair guy takes two minutes if you give him 1 item or 100 items,

This isn't quite entirely true. There's a minimum time of 2 minutes with low to moderate damage, but it can take up to about 10 minutes with heavily damaged items. The most I've personally had it take is 7 minutes with 7 or so items all at about 30% durability. 10 minutes is a guesstimated extrapolation of what a completely damaged item might take.

Still a heck of a lot faster than self-repairing, anyway

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Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page

Isn't there a damage protection period of a couple hours when self repairing? Or does that only apply to tools?

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Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page

>>Isn't there a damage protection period of a couple hours when self repairing? Or does that only apply to tools?

It's an additional feat that can apply to tools, weapons, armors, etc. Not sure if every craft set has a tech it that (I mainly do metal stuff).

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>As someone who relies on the NPC repair shops, I'd much rather see an increase in speed for self-repairing than a decrease in speed of NPC repair shops.

Self-repairing is pretty fast as it is. Unless I really broke something, it takes 20-30 seconds per item.

The real issue does boil down to most NPC repairs taking a flat 2 minutes no matter how many items you give. So if I'm repairing 1-3 items, sure, self-repair is faster. But if I'm repairing all my weapons, all my armor, and all my crafting gear, it takes a ton longer just because of the individual actions all adding up, while NPC repair is still all treated as one (short) job.

Honestly, it does seem like the best solution might be for NPC repair people to just take into consideration how much stuff they're currently repairing, as opposed to just how badly it is damaged. Treat them similar to NPC empaths or something.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>That said, it DOES take too long to repair things. I'd suggest halving the repair RTs all around and increasing the repair times by a factor of 10 or 20 - at least.

How long does it take people to repair stuff right now?

I can always recheck, but with two repair techs it takes me 20-40 seconds to repair items (10-20 for brushing, 10-20 for oil). With one repair tech, it takes me 40-80 seconds to repair items (20-40 for brushing, 20-40 for oil).

Averaging that out, it takes me 30 seconds to repair each tool, and 60 seconds to repair each armor/weapons. That's not really all that bad... it's already half how long it takes for the repair NPCs to fix an item.

>>Alternatively, there is limiting the number of tickets you can put in with a repairer and lowering the actual increase in time to 3-5 times current rates.

Definitely agree with this. the main issue is really that I can only do one item at a time, while repair NPC does everything in tandem. It's the tandem that makes it difficult to compare to NPC time. I 100% acknowledge that I have no idea what kind of coding this involves, but the best solution really does seem to have repair NPCs function similar to Empaths: Empath NPCs don't heal everyone at once, so repair NPCs shouldn't repair everything at once. Have each item bundled into the ticket increase the total time needed for repairs. If someone submits a bunch of stuff before you do, have the repair person factor that in for the time duration, as well (ie: I give 5 items, which takes 10 minutes. Bob immediately shows up with 2 items, which will take 14 minutes. Someone else immediately gives 10 more items, and they'll be ready in 34 minutes).

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>Mellionm6: EXACTLY the reason it needs to be vastly increased. If repair is to become a viable economic function - which it must be to some degree in order for the techs to be worthwhile - the bother of finding someone to do it for you has to be greater than tossing it at the repair shop guy.

It seems like the value of the repair techs lies in being more self-reliant and portable, not in selling those services to other PCs.

I question whether increasing the inconvenience of players in order to give them an incentive to seek out PC repairers is the way to go in this era of populations that are smaller and more spread out. (I might see one other PC in Muspar'i in an entire day; finding PCs to repair my items doesn't seem like an option in my current location.) I think this is also why depart options have become more robust, and they are looking into improving NPC healers.

Also, are there any mechanics in place that allow you to repair an item that I am still holding, or is it just a matter of finding someone who can be trusted to return your items?


>>Teveshszat: It's the tandem that makes it difficult to compare to NPC time.

What a about tech that allowed you to repair multiple items at once, similar to the "repair all" mechanics you can use at NPC repair shops?


>>Teveshszat: Have each item bundled into the ticket increase the total time needed for repairs. If someone submits a bunch of stuff before you do, have the repair person factor that in for the time duration, as well (ie: I give 5 items, which takes 10 minutes. Bob immediately shows up with 2 items, which will take 14 minutes. Someone else immediately gives 10 more items, and they'll be ready in 34 minutes).

That sounds fun.

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>If you make repairs take ages, I'd just get a second set of weapons/armor and avoid the wait entirely.

That's exactly what I'd do.

I'd already heard of someone with two sets of gear, one stayed at the repair shop, and all they did was exchange the items.

<sarcasm>

In this same vein, maybe we should make NPC autohealers cost a lot more, and take a lot longer.

That way, people would have to seek out empaths, who could then charge exorbitant amounts for the convenience of quicker healing.

</sarcasm>

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Well, I can consider increasing the repair cost a bit. Don't want to mess with the time too much though.

PC repair times for the top tier techniques can likely go down a bit too.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>>PC repair times for the top tier techniques can likely go down a bit too.<<

That would be nice, Kodius. I have 9 techs invested in this: 3 to get advanced tool repair, 2 to get advanced armor repair, 2 for advanced weapon repair, and 2 for advanced tailoring repair.

I only self repair all my gear on one of my characters, but seeing RTs go down (especially with more skill, if possible!!) would be helpful.

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"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade

>>Maybe you aren't, and that's why you're comparing smiths to Empaths.

I'm comparing NPC functionality to NPC functionality.

>>Don't say that the other options should be made worse (and the game more tedious overall) so that those techs will look better by comparison.

AFAIK, there are a few things in play.

1) Repair NPCs existed during a time when armor/weapon damage functioned in a massively different way
2) The repair all option was tacked on after the fact, years later.
3) The way gear gets damaged is vastly different in 3.0
4) Part of why gear damage changed is so people did things like not hunt 24/7, and would have to take a moment to sit and breathe every so often, or at least do something non-combat

With all those factors in mind, I think it's entirely reasonable for repair times to stack as opposed to happen in tandem. Most people are bringing what, 6-12 combat items for repair at once? That's around 15-30 minutes of doing something else between hunting. Socialize, train lores, do something not combat. I'm very sure that one of the major things of 3.0 is getting people out of combat, and I think having people not just get near-insta-gear repair can be one of those things.

PC repairs would then have the advantage of being completed faster, but the disadvantage of needing to dedicate RT to them.
NPC repairs would have the advantage of not requiring to buy into the RT of doing it, but you'd just have to wait a bit longer.

Money sink could essentially fall either way, since it's still tied strictly to appraisal value.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>However; it's functionally different given the examples I listed! That's not necessarily an apples to apples comparison.

You're discussing lore. I'm discussing mechanics.

Mechanically, I feel it should function in a similar manner.

>>People like c0per already mentioned carrying additional sets of armor/weapons to quickly swap them in and out to minimize downtime.

I'm fine with that.

>>just hunt with gear at 0 durability

No you won't.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

Swiss cheese armor! I see skin... and I like it.

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"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade

BLEH BLAH FART FART BLEH

Amiron says, "Even a mute would have said something about this amount of people being about."

To be honest, I can't think of other games that require a time sink for armor to be repaired. It's typically click repair, give money, armor is fixed at 100%. Taking something that in most games is instant, to suggesting a 30+ minute wait seems unnecessary. 2-10 minutes is already enough as it is.

Amiron says, "Even a mute would have said something about this amount of people being about."

>Nah, just discussing mechanics.

Nah, both since they work hand in hand. Mechanically multiple smiths can work on multiple items though. So there's your mechanics answer.

>How often is someone going to have two full sets of T6 gear?

Tier type is irrelevant, people can carry tier 6 X2 if they have it, tier 6 and tier 4, two tier 4 sets. Use your brain man. Someone's not going to be like rats, I only have one set of titanese armor I guess I can't swap it out for this shalswar while the other is being repaired. Like k said, where's the ROI if it's going to be avoided?

>Why wear it at all, then? 3.0 has it so that you get rather notable penalties when wearing torn up gear.

Plenty of reasons!




Amiron says, "Even a mute would have said something about this amount of people being about."

>NPC repair costs are based on the appraisal value of the item so it already costs me quit a bit of money to repair my expensive items (for example a single damage tick on my Dwarven tunneler's axe costs over 5 silver while over a plat it is badly damaged). I can remember the days when repairs would take hours and I don't want to go back to that time myself.

It was awesome when something couldn't be repaired also. Especially when damage could happen extremely quickly in certain hunting areas, like gargoyles or guardians. Ah, the good old days!

>>Nah, both since they work hand in hand.

Not really. We can use lore to justify mechanics, but mechanics are mechanics.

>>Tier type is irrelevant

Why? Better armor is better. If you want to stick it to the man by wearing crossing armor while your super duper awesome armor is in the shop, I don't think anyone is going to feel like you tricked them.

>>Plenty of reasons!

Not defense or offense, at least. Maybe looking pretty, that can work.

>>I can remember the days when repairs would take hours and I don't want to go back to that time myself.

I don't think anyone is saying hours. Just more than a two minutes of downtime for everything to get repaired.

>>I don't recall reading that Durability 2.0 was intended to get people out of combat.

I see it the same way I see the chances of being hit/getting wounds going up over time. It's so people would eventually leave combat and do something else. Get healed, sit around town, do some lore, etc. In the end, I don't believe GMs liked that someone could show up in combat and grind for 12 hours+ without a break.

>>(As part of that update, they actually decreased repair times and costs "substantially." This was probably a trade-off for requiring more frequent repairs to maintain peak performance.)

Definitely remember the decrease in costs, since things were getting damaged more. Also not shocked if general per item repair times went down. I just don't think it was intended that you could give a person 1 item and get it back in 2 minutes or 100 items and get them back in 2 minutes.

>>As I see it, an increase in repair times does not improve the game or the quality of my experience.

We could easily use a similar argument for why Paladins shouldn't have lost armor crafting bonuses, Rangers losing arrange all, etc. In the end, opening it up to everyone else while also removing the automatic boon from those guilds didn't always improve things for everyone, but they were still done to give value to the crafting techniques as a whole.

In the end, I think there's a reasonable middle ground between two minutes and infinity for repairing items. I agree with the original point being made that the return for self-repair isn't that high, if you consider a large volume of repairs. I like that I can repair something in 20-40 seconds, but I dislike that if I'm repairing more than three or four things, I should probably just use the NPC if money isn't an issue.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.