Why is it that Bards are the only guild with a crafting skill bonus? Why do Bards get to be really good at combat and yet also the best crafters in the entire game? How is that balanced at all?

Crafting bonus spells really ought to be turned off and make crafting go purely off of base ranks until it gets fixed that more guilds get crafting bonus spells.

Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/

>>Why is it that Bards are the only guild with a crafting skill bonus?

Necros have REI for Alchemy. I'm a bit curious how well it helps, since I seem to create the same stuff before and after using it, but it's there.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>Why is it that Bards are the only guild with a crafting skill bonus?

>>Necros have REI for Alchemy.

That is not an overall crafting bonus - that is an alchemy bonus. I didn't word my original post very clearly.

But anyways, that makes one guild with a specifically targeted crafting bonus (to the least useful crafting skill), and then one with a blanket buff to whatever top two skills they want. Traders and Empaths give up a ton when it comes to combat, while Bards get to be a real combat guild on par with everyone else. Why do Bards ALSO get to be by far the best lore primary guild when it comes to crafting?

Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/

> Why do Bards ALSO get to be by far the best lore primary guild when it comes to crafting?

You'll be pleased to hear that WOTM currently isn't working (I think it's a bug in crafting, not the spell itself).

The core of your complaint seems to be that Trader magic isn't done yet. The GMs have all but said that Traders will also be getting crafting buffs, and once that happens, I assume you won't object to Bards having one? DR design philosophy has never been to hamstring completed development in order to enforce parity with underdeveloped guilds. It's unfortunate that Trader magic isn't done yet, but temporarily squelching a Bard appropriate ability isn't a reasonable response. If Bards were currently dominating the crafting scene, and gloating from atop their throne of bone while the rest of Elanthia looked on and wept, I could understand the argument. But that's not the situation, at all.

(Also, WOTM can be cast on others. I've had several people request it.)

> Not true. The new crafting systems originally went off base ranks only, in order to create parity.

This had nothing to do with creating parity between guilds. It was for the same reason there was a non-career penalty -- to prevent a huge number of high-difficulty items being cranked out while there was still one skill to rule them all.

> Even if Trader magic were released tomorrow, they would still need to keep the playing field level until they evaluate what other guilds are meant to have crafting bonuses and make sure they are all released.

Why? The crafting system is completely accessible to people without a buff. If a year from now they decide to release an Engineering buff for Warrior Mages (TELL FAM TO HOLD BONESAW), it wasn't some huge injustice that WMs had to go this year without that buff.

Okay, so we make crafting it's own skill set.

You're a Lore Guild. What does your skill set do for you? That puts us right back to DR 2.0 as far as Lore Guilds are concerned, minus mech lore.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

>>I feel like crafting in its entirety is shut off to me because of i

Apparently nobody told all the Barbarian forgers out there that they are doing it wrong.

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>While I'm sure it means nothing, I'm of the same mind as one of the previous posters - crafting should be its own subset and have equal learning rates across all guilds.

Absolutely not. No way. Terrible idea. I'm sorry, but NO.

Look, I'd be one of the people to benefit majorly if it was so, but that's not the point. Lore skillset needs something that is worthwhile.

You feel cut off from crafting? I'm sorry you feel that way, but why don't you go ask the Traders and Empaths how they feel about combat, a system that there really is no option to ignore.

Finally lore has something that makes people go "I want that!" This is a good thing, a very good thing.

---

Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

I do fine and I'm not lore prime? I don't understand where this entire thread has gone.


WOTM if it actually worked which apparently it is not is castable on anyone. Bards have a nice shiny thing they can cast on others, what is the problem?


--

In memory of Lisa/Martee. Passed 6/17/2013. A friend. A sister.

Oh and as an aside, I'm sure that Squanto, Caraamon, and Codiax all feel terrible with their horrible tertiary weaponsmithing skills.


--

In memory of Lisa/Martee. Passed 6/17/2013. A friend. A sister.

>>I'm sure it doesn't hurt that those few barbarians had a few years head start in the mech lore department.

Except forging in 2.0 didn't teach mech lore worth a damn.

And what exactly was preventing every other Guild from having a multi-year head start with training mech lore?

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

I agree with keeping crafting skills as Lore.

I'd like to see armor skills having a bit more density, I wish I had better suggestions on what that means, but some of those maneuver things for weapons, if they could wrench that system into an armor thing cool! (I say this using a bit of Armor Tertiary guilds).

And then a swing that Stealth screw a bit, it was super tight, and was too strong I get it, but right now its like dangling off the substrate and only kinda doing things (I mean its there it just needs to be a better anchor).

Sorry for the digression.

Overall just keep Crafting as it is, oh please send time developing more. Thank you.

---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

Well, if we get to be the best crafters, then I'd love to get our payouts for WO's boosted, as well as Bardic Lore xp for completing WOs.

I mean, might as well go all the way!

Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson

AIM - RykenDR

>Because they hate traders.

And Empaths. It was a true sadist that came up with Empathic Shock, had to have been.

But traditionally Bards have even higher Lore reqs than Empaths or Traders. (In terms of sheer ranks, admittedly the latter two had a higher single requirement in respective guild-only skills).

>Most of the prominent crafters in Prime are not lore prime.

Of the 15 people on the forging board, it's like 5 Traders, 2 Bards, an Empath, 2 WM, a Paladin, and 4 Barbs.

Crafting is rather egalitarian, actually. There are things far more restrictive than crafting.


Kaeta Airtag

"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"

>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear

>All the other crafting systems are perfectly able to be done on the go with minimal time spent in city to pick up supplies.

The thought of using just 100 yard distaffs compared to 400 yard spinning wheels makes me rage.

Or looms.

Kaeta Airtag

"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"

>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear

So because you don't want to take the time to train crafting in the most efficient way, you are there for locked out? Sounds to me you are just grasping for reasons to complain because it's not easy mode for you.

People have paid for origami to train mech lore for years without any pay off for it, and have been ok with that. All the sudden because there is a pay off for training a crafting skill it is no longer ok to train it without getting that pay off.

You could train every crafting skill outside of Forging out in BC if you really wanted to craft. Your skillset placement and location of the Societies have nothing to do with it. It sounds to me you really aren't that interested in crafting unless it takes no effort to train it.

>>You don't have to complete work orders to partake in the crafting system or to use crafting skills.

>But training without them is incredibly cost ineffective and wasteful.

But, you can do it. You just don't seem to think it's worth it without the society around and some profit to get. Which makes me wonder why you really want to train the skill in the first place. To make money? Better off to just keep hunting if that's your goal.

>>And, even if you wanted to, there is nothing stopping you from getting your assignment and going back to your hidey hole.

>Yes, because it's totally viable to run from Boar Clan to Crossing every time I want to turn in a workorder.

If you're a Ranger, it's a rather short walk. But really, you're the one who decided to go out there. Nobody made this decision for you and so if it means that you have more trouble getting to a society, well, you probably should have considered that before putting down roots.

And really, Ninevah hit the nail on the head with this comment:

>People have paid for origami to train mech lore for years without any pay off for it, and have been ok with that. All the sudden because there is a pay off for training a crafting skill it is no longer ok to train it without getting that pay off.

Not to mention people would travel from all areas of the game to go buy more paper and instructions before going back to their corner. Something which is perfectly able to be done with all the crafts except for Forging.

I agree some more societies would be nice, but as of right now, I don't see it as being as big of a problem as it's being made out to be. And before anyone says, "You just don't know what it's like." I will say that, yes, I tailor and blacksmith.

---

You must be wearing the dried fishskin in order to eat it.

>>But training without them is incredibly cost ineffective and wasteful.

Except it's not.

Just do easy work orders. It requires 0 tech/hobby/career investment and you end up way more ahead money-wise than if you did origami or braiding.

>>Yes, because it's totally viable to run from Boar Clan to Crossing every time I want to turn in a workorder.

Do what I do: have a day where you do work orders to train lores/make money, another day where you hunt to train combats/make money. I'm not sure about all the societies in Hib for now, but there's at least forging.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>Those of us who sell our crafting products regularly need to be in range of the crossing gweth or we lose huge amounts of business. And those of us who do forge are stuck in the society.

Then you need to make decisions when it comes to your business model. Do you need to be within gweth range 24/7? Do you separate your crafting time and your selling time? Do you work with a Trader who can be at one location and picks up product/relays information to where you are?

I think just adding more and more rooms to one particular forge because it's the popular one just helps reinforce that one always being the popular forge, as opposed to people spreading out.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>If the customers move somewhere else, so will the suppliers. In the meanwhile, there's still a logjam in that forging society.

I'm not entirely certain that if forgers moved to sell things in Riverhaven (or at least work up there), and people wanted their products, that people wouldn't take a trip that is just a bit longer than the on-rails/timed spider trip to hollow eve.

Alternatively, work with a Trader located in Crossing. It's not like you need to directly hear gweth requests yourself.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.