Between yesterday and today, the formulas for alchemy changed in such a way that I can no longer complete work orders that I used to be able to complete without issue. With similar ranks and all the corresponding techniques I can complete work orders for every other discipline except alchemy. The product is mastercrafted until I add the catalyst, at which point the product drops to "well crafted." So it drops from 99 quality to ~50? Really? I have every possible technique that could help, including the one that should mitigate the quality loss from low quality materials.
I checked everything and made sure I didn't miss any complications, and my tools are in pristine condition. Nothing has changed on my end. Why could I make outstanding quality yesterday, but can't recover beyond superior today?
BRHODES
SHIFT3
Re: Something broke.
12/30/2018 10:15 AM CST
Accidental side effect of the group crafting change?
MACI1
Re: Something broke.
12/30/2018 12:36 PM CST
Whatever the change was, I can't make refreshment elixir at high enough quality now, which is RIDICULOUS.
Alchemy: 1339 31.16% clear
I have the required techs as well.
This seriously may be my final straw here. We can't get enchanting, but lets get group crafting, and break other crafts.
DAKRE
Re: Something broke.
12/30/2018 06:31 PM CST
out of curiosity, has it been tested with store-bought only, or have yall mined/foraged your own catalyst and tried again?
i'm curious if it's certain things affected, which is most likely the catalyst. Could someone who has the problem also check the quality before adding catalyst? maybe it's something else?
if we can gather some more info, it might help them fix it faster.
i'm curious if it's certain things affected, which is most likely the catalyst. Could someone who has the problem also check the quality before adding catalyst? maybe it's something else?
if we can gather some more info, it might help them fix it faster.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Something broke.
12/30/2018 06:56 PM CST
Yes, any information you can provide would be helpful. Not sure why the QC process didn't catch this, but I'll get it fixed up just as soon as I can reproduce it.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
ZUERCAT
Re: Something broke.
12/30/2018 07:46 PM CST
My alchemy ranks are comparable to MACI1. Tools are all masterfully-crafted. My Remedies techs are:
From the remedies crafting discipline you have been trained in Remedial Herb Gathering, Advanced Herb Preparation, Wound Remedy Basics, Curative Specialization, Remedy Preparation Theory, and Restoration Acumen.
>You analyze every minute detail of the crushed blue flowers and smile knowingly to yourself.
>These appear to be a type of prepared herb that are well-crafted.
>You analyze every minute detail of the crushed belradi and smile knowingly to yourself.
>This appears to be a type of prepared herb that is finely-crafted.
>You analyze every minute detail of the niniam ingot and smile knowingly to yourself.
>This appears to be a type of refined metal ingot that is finely-crafted.
I did an ANALYZE after each step and got a "From the progress so far, it looks like the elixir is masterfully-crafted." each time, with the result:
You analyze every minute detail of the refreshment elixir and smile knowingly to yourself.
This appears to be a type of basic wound remedy that is masterfully-crafted.
The elixir is a very difficult piece to make.
It was made by someone with much less skill than your own.
You recognize this work as your own.
I was not in a group though, will test as a leader and as a group member later (I'm playing around at the festival until it closes...:P).
~*~ Kythryn ~*~
"It is what makes the garden beautiful: Not every flower is the same." - Bill Murray
From the remedies crafting discipline you have been trained in Remedial Herb Gathering, Advanced Herb Preparation, Wound Remedy Basics, Curative Specialization, Remedy Preparation Theory, and Restoration Acumen.
>You analyze every minute detail of the crushed blue flowers and smile knowingly to yourself.
>These appear to be a type of prepared herb that are well-crafted.
>You analyze every minute detail of the crushed belradi and smile knowingly to yourself.
>This appears to be a type of prepared herb that is finely-crafted.
>You analyze every minute detail of the niniam ingot and smile knowingly to yourself.
>This appears to be a type of refined metal ingot that is finely-crafted.
I did an ANALYZE after each step and got a "From the progress so far, it looks like the elixir is masterfully-crafted." each time, with the result:
You analyze every minute detail of the refreshment elixir and smile knowingly to yourself.
This appears to be a type of basic wound remedy that is masterfully-crafted.
The elixir is a very difficult piece to make.
It was made by someone with much less skill than your own.
You recognize this work as your own.
I was not in a group though, will test as a leader and as a group member later (I'm playing around at the festival until it closes...:P).
~*~ Kythryn ~*~
"It is what makes the garden beautiful: Not every flower is the same." - Bill Murray
DR-KODIUS
Re: Something broke.
12/30/2018 08:37 PM CST
In testing tonight I'm not seeing anything obvious going on. Definitely need some more info to track this down. The group changes affected the skill contest code, but in those my unit tests are coming out identical between the instances.
Would you please post what it says when you study the book for the Rejuvenating Elixer?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Would you please post what it says when you study the book for the Rejuvenating Elixer?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
CHRISPYFRIES
Re: Something broke.
12/31/2018 03:54 AM CST
I agree with MAC1... enchanting was supposed to come out years ago. Why not get it finished rather than working on new crafting projects? Can devs finish the crafting system as it was intended first, then worry about group mechanics, please?
ZUERCAT
Re: Something broke.
12/31/2018 06:18 AM CST
I'll do a couple more elixirs and the next tier remedy tomorrow, both with actually having a helper using the new system, if this isn't sorted out yet, see if I can break something that way. But, I did successfully make masterfully-crafted elixirs, using all the same mats and tools as before, when both leading a group and as a member of a group. I will try using a store bought catalyst instead of the niniam as well.
Adding more information to the tracking, the solo-made elixir I made on the festival grounds up in Zoluren, both of the "grouped up" elixirs I made in the Alchemy Tower in Shard. No wounds. Tools all in practically mint or mint condition (ie. repaired). Water is store bought, not collected. Belradi and blue flowers are both foraged (not purchased) and crushed with the Society bulk grinders. No spells or enchants (in the area) going that would affect crafting skills.
(nutshell: I couldn't reproduce the problem yet)
And, this is what I see when I READ and STUDY the refreshment elixir:
>read book
-= Chapter 2, Page 10: Instructions for crafting some refreshment elixir =-
Some refreshment elixir is a craftable item in the Alchemy society under the Remedies crafting discipline. This is considered to be a very difficult piece to make, though knowledge of the Wound Remedy Basics technique will be beneficial to the crafter.
This item is listed as a "basic wound remedy" ingredient type and is created using a mortar and pestle to crush or a cooking pot and stirring rod to mix. A crafter may also find it helpful to have a sieve, some water and alcohol, and a fire if mixing on hand.
A list of ingredients is provided:
(5) prepared herb (pieces per use, known to provide minor internal healing over the entire body)
(1) splash of water
(1) prepared herb (pieces total, known to heal internal scars over the entire body)
(1) catalyst material
>study book
You scan the refreshment elixir instructions with a glance and completely understand all facets of the design.
You now feel ready to begin the crafting process.
~*~ Kythryn ~*~
"It is what makes the garden beautiful: Not every flower is the same." - Bill Murray
Adding more information to the tracking, the solo-made elixir I made on the festival grounds up in Zoluren, both of the "grouped up" elixirs I made in the Alchemy Tower in Shard. No wounds. Tools all in practically mint or mint condition (ie. repaired). Water is store bought, not collected. Belradi and blue flowers are both foraged (not purchased) and crushed with the Society bulk grinders. No spells or enchants (in the area) going that would affect crafting skills.
(nutshell: I couldn't reproduce the problem yet)
And, this is what I see when I READ and STUDY the refreshment elixir:
>read book
-= Chapter 2, Page 10: Instructions for crafting some refreshment elixir =-
Some refreshment elixir is a craftable item in the Alchemy society under the Remedies crafting discipline. This is considered to be a very difficult piece to make, though knowledge of the Wound Remedy Basics technique will be beneficial to the crafter.
This item is listed as a "basic wound remedy" ingredient type and is created using a mortar and pestle to crush or a cooking pot and stirring rod to mix. A crafter may also find it helpful to have a sieve, some water and alcohol, and a fire if mixing on hand.
A list of ingredients is provided:
(5) prepared herb (pieces per use, known to provide minor internal healing over the entire body)
(1) splash of water
(1) prepared herb (pieces total, known to heal internal scars over the entire body)
(1) catalyst material
>study book
You scan the refreshment elixir instructions with a glance and completely understand all facets of the design.
You now feel ready to begin the crafting process.
~*~ Kythryn ~*~
"It is what makes the garden beautiful: Not every flower is the same." - Bill Murray
MACI1
Re: Something broke.
12/31/2018 06:44 AM CST
You scan the refreshment elixir instructions with a glance and comprehend all but several minor details in the text.
You now feel ready to begin the crafting process.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
Also, I assisted yesterday, and ran through a couple of things with the GH that responded. It seems when I foraged Blue Flowers, they start at 94 quality. After processing them through the grinder, they come out at 4 quality. I bugged this in the Shard Crafting Society yesterday afternoon.
You now feel ready to begin the crafting process.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
Also, I assisted yesterday, and ran through a couple of things with the GH that responded. It seems when I foraged Blue Flowers, they start at 94 quality. After processing them through the grinder, they come out at 4 quality. I bugged this in the Shard Crafting Society yesterday afternoon.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Something broke.
12/31/2018 09:14 AM CST
Ok, so it may be the flower quality was lowered more than you expected by the grinding process, and thereby ruined the crafting?
This seems unrelated to the Group Changes so I want to focus my efforts appropriately.
Thanks!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
This seems unrelated to the Group Changes so I want to focus my efforts appropriately.
Thanks!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DRFLERYSS
Re: Something broke.
12/31/2018 12:25 PM CST
My two coppers.
Foraged up ithor root. It had a quality of 95 before preparation. Took it to the society and used grinder prepared that way was now 2 quality.
Repeated again with jadice flower. Using the press there it went from quality of 99 to quality of 1 after prepared.
Foraged ithor root again and crushed it in a mortar with a pestle. Quality after being prepared was 99.
Did not have time to examine every step of the crafting of a remedy. But hoping this helps a little.
Thanks for the hard work.
Foraged up ithor root. It had a quality of 95 before preparation. Took it to the society and used grinder prepared that way was now 2 quality.
Repeated again with jadice flower. Using the press there it went from quality of 99 to quality of 1 after prepared.
Foraged ithor root again and crushed it in a mortar with a pestle. Quality after being prepared was 99.
Did not have time to examine every step of the crafting of a remedy. But hoping this helps a little.
Thanks for the hard work.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Something broke.
12/31/2018 01:04 PM CST
Hey folks, I think we got it fixed. Please let me know if the grinders are working again for you!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Something broke.
12/31/2018 05:48 PM CST
>>I agree with MAC1... enchanting was supposed to come out years ago. Why not get it finished rather than working on new crafting projects? Can devs finish the crafting system as it was intended first, then worry about group mechanics, please?
Most productions - in DR and otherwise - tend to run on separate rails. Doing A instead of B doesn't explicitly mean you're doing it at the expense of doing B. There may be something else going on that makes it difficult to work on B at the time, or the thing keeping A held back may have finally passed, which is why it's now out, etc.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Most productions - in DR and otherwise - tend to run on separate rails. Doing A instead of B doesn't explicitly mean you're doing it at the expense of doing B. There may be something else going on that makes it difficult to work on B at the time, or the thing keeping A held back may have finally passed, which is why it's now out, etc.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
CHRISPYFRIES
Re: Something broke.
12/31/2018 06:12 PM CST
"Most productions - in DR and otherwise - tend to run on separate rails. Doing A instead of B doesn't explicitly mean you're doing it at the expense of doing B. There may be something else going on that makes it difficult to work on B at the time, or the thing keeping A held back may have finally passed, which is why it's now out, etc."
Are you one of the game developers? Why do some people feel it is necessary to excuse bad game development for whatever reason every time the subject is brought up? This is why they don't feel the pressure to ever releasing the crafting system fully. This is why the player base is dwindling. Stop making excuses for them.
I love this game. I've been playing it off and on since 1997. There are A LOT of great things about the game that you cannot find anywhere else. But when you are promised something from the game developers for years, and it never comes true or is excused away, then yes, it may make some paying customers very unhappy. YOU may not care about the enchanting system, but I do. It hasn't brought me to quitting the game permanently yet, due to the fact that there are still good reasons to play the game, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't bring it up or complain about it... in hopes that one day a GM will listen.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Something broke.
12/31/2018 06:30 PM CST
>>Why do some people feel it is necessary to excuse bad game development for whatever reason every time the subject is brought up?
Because "why did you work on A instead of B just focus on B" doesn't recognize the general nuances of game production (or any type of design that involves more than one person.
>>This is why they don't feel the pressure to ever releasing the crafting system fully.
I really doubt "someone understands how game development works" is what is making them feel less pressure to release something.
>>YOU may not care about the enchanting system, but I do.
I love the idea of the enchanting system coming out. I'm super excited for it. I'm just not going to act like A being released before B has some deeper meaning or functioning as a sign that GMs don't care about B.
>>It hasn't brought me to quitting the game permanently yet, due to the fact that there are still good reasons to play the game, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't bring it up or complain about it... in hopes that one day a GM will listen.
Nothing wrong with wanting enchanting to come out, or being disappointed that it is not out yet, but talking about how GMs worked on A instead of B is the wrong way to go about it, because development isn't explicitly a zero-sum situation
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Because "why did you work on A instead of B just focus on B" doesn't recognize the general nuances of game production (or any type of design that involves more than one person.
>>This is why they don't feel the pressure to ever releasing the crafting system fully.
I really doubt "someone understands how game development works" is what is making them feel less pressure to release something.
>>YOU may not care about the enchanting system, but I do.
I love the idea of the enchanting system coming out. I'm super excited for it. I'm just not going to act like A being released before B has some deeper meaning or functioning as a sign that GMs don't care about B.
>>It hasn't brought me to quitting the game permanently yet, due to the fact that there are still good reasons to play the game, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't bring it up or complain about it... in hopes that one day a GM will listen.
Nothing wrong with wanting enchanting to come out, or being disappointed that it is not out yet, but talking about how GMs worked on A instead of B is the wrong way to go about it, because development isn't explicitly a zero-sum situation
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
CHRISPYFRIES
Re: Something broke.
12/31/2018 06:41 PM CST
It's not even just the enchantment system. The alchemy and outfitting systems are half-released as well. So you're telling me this is how game development works in other titles you've played? Wow, me and you don't play the same games then. But I guess this is your way of covering your eyes and ears and wishing for this system you say you are super-excited about to be released. Good luck with that.
DR-HELJE
Re: Something broke. ::Nudge::
12/31/2018 06:42 PM CST
Let's keep it keep it on topic and constructive please.
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
DR-IOCANTHE
Re: Something broke. ::Nudge::
01/01/2019 08:47 PM CST
I want to say a little about game development as it currently is in DR.
We don't have a huge team of developers. We have 5 people supporting the code we've already got and writing new stuff. They've got day jobs and families that deserve their attention. (Most of them have mentioned a dream about winning the lottery and working on DR full-time...)
When we're talking about how many of those 5 GMs are currently devoted to writing entire systems, we're down to 1. He puts all his available time and energy and heart into that, while the other 4 are generally kept busy enough that they have time for the occasional systems foray, but we need them working on other things as their regular focus because we don't have enough people to take over doing what they're doing to let them work at systems all the time.
DR code is not a thing to dive into thinking "I can save the system singlehandedly by next week!" A newly trained GM can write code and get it QCed within a year. To get into writing systems takes a much longer commitment. It consumes every bit of spare time and energy the systems-writer has, and is mostly thankless work. As this crafting glitch shows, changing code in one script can have a ripple effect that may take a week to show up as your changes touch one script that touches another script that touches another one. There is no way to independently write a system and drop it into place without breaking stuff all over.
On that note, we're about ready to start the selection process for the next round of interviews...
Iocanthe
Doing stuff
We don't have a huge team of developers. We have 5 people supporting the code we've already got and writing new stuff. They've got day jobs and families that deserve their attention. (Most of them have mentioned a dream about winning the lottery and working on DR full-time...)
When we're talking about how many of those 5 GMs are currently devoted to writing entire systems, we're down to 1. He puts all his available time and energy and heart into that, while the other 4 are generally kept busy enough that they have time for the occasional systems foray, but we need them working on other things as their regular focus because we don't have enough people to take over doing what they're doing to let them work at systems all the time.
DR code is not a thing to dive into thinking "I can save the system singlehandedly by next week!" A newly trained GM can write code and get it QCed within a year. To get into writing systems takes a much longer commitment. It consumes every bit of spare time and energy the systems-writer has, and is mostly thankless work. As this crafting glitch shows, changing code in one script can have a ripple effect that may take a week to show up as your changes touch one script that touches another script that touches another one. There is no way to independently write a system and drop it into place without breaking stuff all over.
On that note, we're about ready to start the selection process for the next round of interviews...
Iocanthe
Doing stuff
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Something broke.
01/02/2019 10:39 AM CST
>>So you're telling me this is how game development works in other titles you've played?
I'm telling you how game development generally works, yes. The major difference (arguably flaw) that DR has is that they release things as they're ready to be released, sometimes piecemeal, as opposed to "okay, it's been X years, here's the big game update." In a more "traditional" style of update, you'd have the full crafting system released at once, as opposed to "okay, here's blacksmithing, okay here's some of outfitting, okay here's some of alchemy."
You also wouldn't have GMs telling you things are on the horizon until it's pretty set in stone that the systems are fully done, and have a more explicit marketing-focused rollout instead of a GM just popping in to say what stuff they've been working on.
But, development-wise, you would definitely have some projects on pause because of external reasons, which gives you an opportunity to start (and possibly finish) a different project before the former project can start back up itself.
>>Wow, me and you don't play the same games then. But I guess this is your way of covering your eyes and ears and wishing for this system you say you are super-excited about to be released. Good luck with that.
We probably play the same exact games. The main difference we probably have is a difference i understanding of how things function behind the scenes of game development (or any kind of project development, really).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I'm telling you how game development generally works, yes. The major difference (arguably flaw) that DR has is that they release things as they're ready to be released, sometimes piecemeal, as opposed to "okay, it's been X years, here's the big game update." In a more "traditional" style of update, you'd have the full crafting system released at once, as opposed to "okay, here's blacksmithing, okay here's some of outfitting, okay here's some of alchemy."
You also wouldn't have GMs telling you things are on the horizon until it's pretty set in stone that the systems are fully done, and have a more explicit marketing-focused rollout instead of a GM just popping in to say what stuff they've been working on.
But, development-wise, you would definitely have some projects on pause because of external reasons, which gives you an opportunity to start (and possibly finish) a different project before the former project can start back up itself.
>>Wow, me and you don't play the same games then. But I guess this is your way of covering your eyes and ears and wishing for this system you say you are super-excited about to be released. Good luck with that.
We probably play the same exact games. The main difference we probably have is a difference i understanding of how things function behind the scenes of game development (or any kind of project development, really).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
SHIFT3
Re: Something broke.
01/02/2019 11:38 AM CST
Note that what I'm about to say isn't a dig at GMs. We know they are working hard on keeping the lights on and fulfilling their requirements for the next MT event. We also know that they will pump out the new spell or game world as they feel inspired and have the time. What this is about is pointing out that the announcements may cause more discord than not.
> You also wouldn't have GMs telling you things are on the horizon until it's pretty set in stone that the systems are fully done
This is how most companies do it, and they do it for a reason. Excluding specific fund-raising ore pre-purchase / alpha games, they don't want to announce major features too early. When they do, they time box it (even loosely) and will live or die by how accurate that estimate is. DR tends to take this to an extreme, and it announces so many projects that never see the light of day for various reasons.
Let me give you a quick list off the top of my head.
- Bloodlust - this was on the homepage and had art assets, but it just died one day for various reasons.
- Necromancer guild (first two times) - People were rolling up commoners and working them for years preparing for this guild. They left before the guild was released.
- Paladin changes - Other than Conviction and Smite, this seems like a dead initiative.
- Barrier changes - A whole slew of new spells were planned and going to be reworked and balanced. That all died, MAF received a little nerf, and the new spells/systems were dropped.
- Crowd systems - we had a teaser, and then nothing.
- Bard ability rewrite - A whole identity was planned and published, but then nothing happened.
- Entire crafting systems - Poisons, Artistry, Enchanting as a skill, etc... all are indefinitely delayed. Enchanting is "soon" and has been for a while.
> The main difference we probably have is a difference i understanding of how things function behind the scenes of game development
You mean they have full-time, professional developers teams managing various aspects, balancing, and projects. DR doesn't have that, which makes it all the more important not to hype up something that may not happen for years, if ever. If it does come out, the general consensus will be an exasperated "finally" rather than that initial excitement which was burned too soon.
> You also wouldn't have GMs telling you things are on the horizon until it's pretty set in stone that the systems are fully done
This is how most companies do it, and they do it for a reason. Excluding specific fund-raising ore pre-purchase / alpha games, they don't want to announce major features too early. When they do, they time box it (even loosely) and will live or die by how accurate that estimate is. DR tends to take this to an extreme, and it announces so many projects that never see the light of day for various reasons.
Let me give you a quick list off the top of my head.
- Bloodlust - this was on the homepage and had art assets, but it just died one day for various reasons.
- Necromancer guild (first two times) - People were rolling up commoners and working them for years preparing for this guild. They left before the guild was released.
- Paladin changes - Other than Conviction and Smite, this seems like a dead initiative.
- Barrier changes - A whole slew of new spells were planned and going to be reworked and balanced. That all died, MAF received a little nerf, and the new spells/systems were dropped.
- Crowd systems - we had a teaser, and then nothing.
- Bard ability rewrite - A whole identity was planned and published, but then nothing happened.
- Entire crafting systems - Poisons, Artistry, Enchanting as a skill, etc... all are indefinitely delayed. Enchanting is "soon" and has been for a while.
> The main difference we probably have is a difference i understanding of how things function behind the scenes of game development
You mean they have full-time, professional developers teams managing various aspects, balancing, and projects. DR doesn't have that, which makes it all the more important not to hype up something that may not happen for years, if ever. If it does come out, the general consensus will be an exasperated "finally" rather than that initial excitement which was burned too soon.
GODKING
Re: Something broke.
01/02/2019 12:25 PM CST
"bla, bla, bla, We don't have the staff, I've been sick and have family matters to deal with, you don't know what we have to do behind the scenes, etc."
All I hear are excuses and we still see little real substance. Seems like the stuff we have to pay extra for has no or little problem getting released, so I don't know why other systems that we've heard about for ages take so long. My guess is that the company is hurting and grasping at straws to try to keep its players, or these games have just been put on a back burner while other Simutronics projects are being worked on. Not to mention the sudden change in course of working mostly on player cooperation systems, which doesn't seem to me to be a priority for most players, but for Simutronics it seems to be.
We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/autumn
All I hear are excuses and we still see little real substance. Seems like the stuff we have to pay extra for has no or little problem getting released, so I don't know why other systems that we've heard about for ages take so long. My guess is that the company is hurting and grasping at straws to try to keep its players, or these games have just been put on a back burner while other Simutronics projects are being worked on. Not to mention the sudden change in course of working mostly on player cooperation systems, which doesn't seem to me to be a priority for most players, but for Simutronics it seems to be.
We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/autumn
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Something broke.
01/02/2019 12:51 PM CST
>>This is how most companies do it, and they do it for a reason.
I do feel Simu tends to get caught between a "players want more transparency" rock and a "players don't want to acknowledge/recognize how the sausage gets made" hard place. There's also the fact that GMs tend to be rather open with their intent to even consider something, which can make the timetables/expectations a bit wonky.
>>DR tends to take this to an extreme, and it announces so many projects that never see the light of day for various reasons.
Agreed. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with any of those things (like Bloodlust) not working out, but because most players [understandably] don't have a strong understanding of how the sausage gets made, it comes off as DR failing to deliver something, even though there are things that get thought up, worked on, and scrapped in all the MMORPGs that are out there.
>>You mean they have full-time, professional developers teams managing various aspects, balancing, and projects.
That too, but even with teams things bottleneck/etc and folks would jump to another project while that other bottleneck gets resolved.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I do feel Simu tends to get caught between a "players want more transparency" rock and a "players don't want to acknowledge/recognize how the sausage gets made" hard place. There's also the fact that GMs tend to be rather open with their intent to even consider something, which can make the timetables/expectations a bit wonky.
>>DR tends to take this to an extreme, and it announces so many projects that never see the light of day for various reasons.
Agreed. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with any of those things (like Bloodlust) not working out, but because most players [understandably] don't have a strong understanding of how the sausage gets made, it comes off as DR failing to deliver something, even though there are things that get thought up, worked on, and scrapped in all the MMORPGs that are out there.
>>You mean they have full-time, professional developers teams managing various aspects, balancing, and projects.
That too, but even with teams things bottleneck/etc and folks would jump to another project while that other bottleneck gets resolved.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Something broke.
01/02/2019 12:57 PM CST
>>All I hear are excuses and we still see little real substance. Seems like the stuff we have to pay extra for has no or little problem getting released, so I don't know why other systems that we've heard about for ages take so long.
IMO, there's a huge difference between developing infrastructure and developing content, and sometimes one will be a lot harder than the other for various reasons. I think it's unreasonable to go "why isn't the infrastructure for a revamped poisons system up yet even though some fire swords were around during Corn Maze," because they're two completely different animals.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
IMO, there's a huge difference between developing infrastructure and developing content, and sometimes one will be a lot harder than the other for various reasons. I think it's unreasonable to go "why isn't the infrastructure for a revamped poisons system up yet even though some fire swords were around during Corn Maze," because they're two completely different animals.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
SHIFT3
Re: Something broke.
01/02/2019 02:03 PM CST
> I do feel Simu tends to get caught between a "players want more transparency" rock and a "players don't want to acknowledge/recognize how the sausage gets made" hard place.
There's some truth to this, but I think it's more than just that. Consider this example:
12/27/2016: https://elanthipedia.play.net/Post:Enchanting_Update_-_12/17/2016_-_18:27
>> I'm planning to begin prepping Artificing for release into the world over the Christmas holiday. Of course, my wife could go into labor at any time or have the doctors tell us stuff is getting real - so this may hit a speed bump. But I honestly just need to get this out before my own life gets insanely more complicated ;)
Obviously things come up. Real-life is way more important than a text-based game, but we're now two years out and still waiting for a system supposedly ready for release in 2016. Having a follow-up post saying, 'I know I said thing, but thing isn't going to happen for the forseeable future because of other thing' would be helpful and build confidence. It would be something we all should point to and tell people to stop planning on 'thing'. Being strung along saying it's close for two years is a bit much, especially for a system detailed in depth in the 2011 simucon.
> but because most players [understandably] don't have a strong understanding of how the sausage gets made
I still think we're past this point, honestly. There should be more transparency, and players should have more visibility into the sausage behind the scenes. Maybe not all of the tools (at least not broadly), but at least the sausage itself. With limited development resources, this feels like the only way we'll see consistent updates (think of how often Lich is updated). At the very least, it may quiet some of the critics who are left to make conclusions based on the limited information we see today.
> it comes off as DR failing to deliver something, even though there are things that get thought up, worked on, and scrapped in all the MMORPGs that are out there.
And those MMOs are blasted for failing to live up to their promises. At best they're MEMEd, but some failures are so big that the entire company is restructured or closes up shop.
GODKING
Re: Something broke.
01/02/2019 08:42 PM CST
> but because most players [understandably] don't have a strong understanding of how the sausage gets made
Just because we don't know how a sausage is made doesn't mean we should have to wait longer than average for a sausage or expect it to taste less good.
We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/autumn
Just because we don't know how a sausage is made doesn't mean we should have to wait longer than average for a sausage or expect it to taste less good.
We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/autumn
DAKRE
need to get back on topic
01/03/2019 02:51 AM CST
the sausage analogy isn't bad, but it sounds like you are expecting a small sausage business to make the same quantity and quality as a large corporate sausage business.
so before the thread gets moved or removed due to being off-topic and not very constructive. Everyone gets frustrated, but i try not to worry about things outside of my control. it reminds me of an old roommate i had when i was 18. he admitted to me one day that he was stressing out over the fact i was not stressing out over anything.
The best thing we can do is help them, control our own frustrations, and enjoy the game for what it is. If you enjoy the game, then enjoy it.
Trying to guide things back on topic a bit, i would really love to have the ability to make Wayerd Devices. we can make most tools except those, and the cambrinth ones could be limited to MT events like usual.
so before the thread gets moved or removed due to being off-topic and not very constructive. Everyone gets frustrated, but i try not to worry about things outside of my control. it reminds me of an old roommate i had when i was 18. he admitted to me one day that he was stressing out over the fact i was not stressing out over anything.
The best thing we can do is help them, control our own frustrations, and enjoy the game for what it is. If you enjoy the game, then enjoy it.
Trying to guide things back on topic a bit, i would really love to have the ability to make Wayerd Devices. we can make most tools except those, and the cambrinth ones could be limited to MT events like usual.
