I just want to be super clear about news 5 36, specifically this part:
NON-VIOLENT AID
As normal, other players can provide non-violent aid to help either the assassin or his target. These actions are not under any special consent rules - Engaging in another person's combat grants consent as per normal consent rules.
I was healing my next patient in the infirmary, we'll call him Target. Someone came in and advanced Target while I was in the middle of healing him, we'll call her Assassin. Assassin had consent on Target, through the assassin game contract. Assassin then told me she was going to kill me next for healing Target while she was trying to kill him. I am closed PvP. I told Assassin that 1.) I had already started healing him before she came in and 2.) Healing falls under non-violent aid and is not consent, and that she should read news 5 36, to which she said that I was confused and I should reread the article. I spoke to TWO mentors who both told me healing is almost never consent excepting the grey area of healing someone who does not wish to be healed. I went back to Assassin and told her that I was told by mentors that healing Target is not consent for Assassin to kill me. She told me she was going to kill me if I ever healed any more of her targets while she was trying to assassinate them.
First of all, this was in the infirmary. The possibility of someone being healed in the infirmary is pretty high. But, I believe the confusion is in the last line "engaging in another person's combat grants consent as per normal consent rules." Evidently to Assassin, her coming in to the infirmary and beating up my patient was me 'engaging' in her combat. Now I thought the word 'engaging' meant advancing upon Assassin or casting combative spells on Assassin. I was not able to contact a GM in game for clarification, so I'm posting here.
I just want to be super clear that it's okay to heal people in the infirmary without being killed for unknowingly healing someone who is playing the assassin game.
BUBBLEGOOSE
VISHNIAE1
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 02:35 AM CDT
It's ok and you're absolutely in your rights to heal anyone who comes seeking aid in the infirmary, regardless if they are playing the game or not. The assassin has no consent on you. She is either confused about the rules or reads them the way she wants to read them. At any case she is wrong.
If she attacks you in the situation you described she is violating consent rules.
* Malik was just struck down!
If she attacks you in the situation you described she is violating consent rules.
* Malik was just struck down!
SORTIK
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 03:27 AM CDT
As I understand it, healing someone while they are being attacked does grant consent on the empath to the attacker.
HOWEVER.
That likely does not apply to your situation:
1) It was in the empath guild. It is not like you started healing them in the middle of nowhere to keep the attacker from being able to kill them.
2) You said you had already started healing before seeing anyone try to do any attacking.
I am no expert on consent policy, though. Mentors do not have the authority to make any calls on that. Your best bet is to read the policy and the associated news articles and/or ASSIST to ask for clarification. You could also read the policy section of the forums and ask your question there.
HOWEVER.
That likely does not apply to your situation:
1) It was in the empath guild. It is not like you started healing them in the middle of nowhere to keep the attacker from being able to kill them.
2) You said you had already started healing before seeing anyone try to do any attacking.
I am no expert on consent policy, though. Mentors do not have the authority to make any calls on that. Your best bet is to read the policy and the associated news articles and/or ASSIST to ask for clarification. You could also read the policy section of the forums and ask your question there.
CHRISSY-QUE
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 03:35 AM CDT
<<These actions are not under any special consent rules - Engaging in another person's combat grants consent as per normal consent rules.
Under normal consent rules, if you heal someone while they are mid-fight, you are acknowledging your willingness to engage in conflict and giving consent to the opposing party. However, that does not apply in every situation.
Scenario One- Player A, Player B, and Empath are all in one room. Player A shoots Player B, and Empath immediately begins to heal Player B. Player A now has consent on Empath.
Scenario Two - Empath is alone. Player B walks in and asks to be healed. Empath begins to heal Player B. Player A walks in and shoots Player B. Player A does NOT have consent on Empath.
Under normal consent rules, if you heal someone while they are mid-fight, you are acknowledging your willingness to engage in conflict and giving consent to the opposing party. However, that does not apply in every situation.
Scenario One- Player A, Player B, and Empath are all in one room. Player A shoots Player B, and Empath immediately begins to heal Player B. Player A now has consent on Empath.
Scenario Two - Empath is alone. Player B walks in and asks to be healed. Empath begins to heal Player B. Player A walks in and shoots Player B. Player A does NOT have consent on Empath.
ICON1
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 04:09 AM CDT
>That likely does not apply to your situation:
1) It was in the empath guild. It is not like you started healing them in the middle of nowhere to keep the attacker from being able to kill them.
2) You said you had already started healing before seeing anyone try to do any attacking.
I think the person running to the Empaths mid conflict and getting a heal without informing, thus involving them without their knowledge is a bit low.
1) It was in the empath guild. It is not like you started healing them in the middle of nowhere to keep the attacker from being able to kill them.
2) You said you had already started healing before seeing anyone try to do any attacking.
I think the person running to the Empaths mid conflict and getting a heal without informing, thus involving them without their knowledge is a bit low.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 05:14 AM CDT
yeah, like the other poster said.
that one started way back when one of the folks who have been galain started a conflict with the lockpick union over the price of lockpicks. He was standing by the adan'f "safe spot" when he was targetted by a bunch of folks, and the empath who saw it immediately started healin' him, and therefore was targetted as well. She reported, and long story short - that was when the policy made aiding someone who You see - is part of a conflict, would give the person consent on the empath.
IF, however, conflictee runs to an empath in the infirmary - as in your case -and asks for healing and you start to heal without the person informing you they're in a conflict, doesn't give consent on the empath. Was bad form for them not to so inform you though.
Necromancy provides the only source of reliable and potent life extension on Elanthia.
that one started way back when one of the folks who have been galain started a conflict with the lockpick union over the price of lockpicks. He was standing by the adan'f "safe spot" when he was targetted by a bunch of folks, and the empath who saw it immediately started healin' him, and therefore was targetted as well. She reported, and long story short - that was when the policy made aiding someone who You see - is part of a conflict, would give the person consent on the empath.
IF, however, conflictee runs to an empath in the infirmary - as in your case -and asks for healing and you start to heal without the person informing you they're in a conflict, doesn't give consent on the empath. Was bad form for them not to so inform you though.
Necromancy provides the only source of reliable and potent life extension on Elanthia.
SUAVETERRORIST
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 07:04 AM CDT
Its really sad how little people can actually count on most mentors for things like this. I'm not at all surprised you asked two mentors and they both apparently didnt know what they were talking about. If you have questions on policy in the future, you'd be best served to ask on the boards, or assist, though assisting doesnt always work either.
That said, theyve summed it up pretty accurately for you here. If youre knowingly healing someone in the middle of the fight, that would be consent, the particular situation you described probably wouldnt be.
I notice that you quoted the 'providing nonviolent aid' part of the assasins policy though, and i think youre misreading that.
Eladrin
That said, theyve summed it up pretty accurately for you here. If youre knowingly healing someone in the middle of the fight, that would be consent, the particular situation you described probably wouldnt be.
I notice that you quoted the 'providing nonviolent aid' part of the assasins policy though, and i think youre misreading that.
Eladrin
MICHAELP2002
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 07:26 AM CDT
Haven't tried yet, but was curious as to how hard its been to find someone that is online without the aid of familiars, contacts, companions, and locates. Obviously some guilds have an easier time finding someone than others do, which is cool, but DR is rather big and was wondering how people that don't use the above mentioned fare.
DR-ZEYURN
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 10:17 AM CDT
The aid has to be 'knowingly provided' in order to be Consent. If you heal somebody because they came to the Empaths' guild and just asked 'Can I get a heal?', you are fine.
If they come in and say 'I almost got assassinated, somebody heal me quick before she comes back!' you probably ought to take the risks in mind.
-Z
If they come in and say 'I almost got assassinated, somebody heal me quick before she comes back!' you probably ought to take the risks in mind.
-Z
KEISERS
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 10:25 AM CDT
I'd also assume when the assassin warns you what is going on, if you continue you will also be giving them consent for interfering.
-Grid
-Grid
SCHISSLERB1
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 10:56 AM CDT
Can we please get a timer on how long someone can target you without trying to collect before its reset? I've been waiting on the same person to hit me since the system went live, and I'd like to leave to go train now since waiting a year for someone to login is dumb.
IMAWESOME
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 11:04 AM CDT
The system should automatically clear your target if you've been logged out for a certain amount of time.
---
~Kevalia~
---
~Kevalia~
SCHISSLERB1
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 11:15 AM CDT
Something. Playing is great and I love the system but not being able to opt out because your target has a real life is annoying.
VEE-REX
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 11:46 AM CDT
>>Are you implying it's completely OOC then? Because it's certainly not IC. In fact, Socharis was quite clear that there was no way to really integrate it into the RP atmosphere because it'd end up not fitting well at best.
My character has been a mercenary for a long time. It's not hard to imagine that there's some kind of mob or individual people wanting others dead. Do I have to actually approach a specific person/group to get my target? Probably as much as I have to make my character eat, sleep, and relieve himself every day.
If I want, I can pick apart the entire game and label many things as quasi-ooc. Instead, I'll accept it as is and try to make it as IC as possible. Truthfully, this game isn't really OOC those who are, were, and want to be mercenaries.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
My character has been a mercenary for a long time. It's not hard to imagine that there's some kind of mob or individual people wanting others dead. Do I have to actually approach a specific person/group to get my target? Probably as much as I have to make my character eat, sleep, and relieve himself every day.
If I want, I can pick apart the entire game and label many things as quasi-ooc. Instead, I'll accept it as is and try to make it as IC as possible. Truthfully, this game isn't really OOC those who are, were, and want to be mercenaries.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
PANMELI
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 12:04 PM CDT
Targets who willingly joined this game should take their lumps and stop running to the empaths' guild for healing because they're just causing trouble for empaths who may not know you CHOSE to be a walking bullseye.
Also, please stop hiding in no-locate places just because you don't like who is hunting you down...
If you can't take the heat, then don't register in the first place.
Also, please stop hiding in no-locate places just because you don't like who is hunting you down...
If you can't take the heat, then don't register in the first place.
DUNEPLAY
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 12:20 PM CDT
<<Its really sad how little people can actually count on most mentors for things like this. I'm not at all surprised you asked two mentors and they both apparently didnt know what they were talking about. If you have questions on policy in the future, you'd be best served to ask on the boards, or assist, though assisting doesnt always work either.>>
As I understand it, advising folks on policy issues falls outside the mentor's role. They are primarily around to help folks with game mechanics (such as how to do something, like train mech, for example, and general play issues. They are more intended to help newbies and to host game events in the absense of a GM. For policy issues you should assist and talk to a GH who can get advice from a GM (or in the rare case a GM is unavailable, log the assist so it can be reviewed later by a GM). So no, it isn't sad mentors can't make policy calls, it is outside their role.
Zinaca and her wolf, Lucky
As I understand it, advising folks on policy issues falls outside the mentor's role. They are primarily around to help folks with game mechanics (such as how to do something, like train mech, for example, and general play issues. They are more intended to help newbies and to host game events in the absense of a GM. For policy issues you should assist and talk to a GH who can get advice from a GM (or in the rare case a GM is unavailable, log the assist so it can be reviewed later by a GM). So no, it isn't sad mentors can't make policy calls, it is outside their role.
Zinaca and her wolf, Lucky
SUAVETERRORIST
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 01:28 PM CDT
True, its not their major role, but i would think a basic understanding of policy would be expected, since they DO answer questions about it, and are often completely wrong.
I dont really think its a conversation for this folder however.
Eladrin
I dont really think its a conversation for this folder however.
Eladrin
GRRARGH
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/24/2010 06:04 PM CDT
You whisper to snugglebunny, "I'm not going to argue this with you, if you continue healing someone I am actively conflicting with again, after I warn you about it. I'm taking your head off."
that bold bit pretty much sums it up
"I think I just had an evilgasm." - Lord Xykon: Order of the Stick
that bold bit pretty much sums it up
"I think I just had an evilgasm." - Lord Xykon: Order of the Stick
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: consent and non-violent aid
07/26/2010 08:02 AM CDT
>>Can we please get a timer on how long someone can target you without trying to collect before its reset?
Yeah, I'm thinking about that.
>>Is there going to be any kind of leader board announced? I'm interested in seeing where people stand.
Definitely something I plan on.
>>Since investigate is a 24 hour timer, would it be possible to know if our would-be assassin dropped us as their target if we were able to correctly investigate originally?
Meh. Part of the game is the paranoia. Giving too many information tools turns it into a game of triggers, IMO. I'll think on it
>>Is there no plan to have ASSASSIN STATUS show how may times you've been smushed.
Nope, not at the moment.
>>Would it be too much to ask for the option to volunteer to be on the assassin list as a target, but not be offered any contracts yourself?
You can just join and not request any other targets (Somebody else replied to this but didn't quote, so I figured I'd reiterate).
>>Not to expand on an already awesome idea, but I'd love to see if people could "choose sides" in the Assassin game.
That's a pretty different game :). Perhaps someday, but it won't be specifically related to Assassins, likely.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
Yeah, I'm thinking about that.
>>Is there going to be any kind of leader board announced? I'm interested in seeing where people stand.
Definitely something I plan on.
>>Since investigate is a 24 hour timer, would it be possible to know if our would-be assassin dropped us as their target if we were able to correctly investigate originally?
Meh. Part of the game is the paranoia. Giving too many information tools turns it into a game of triggers, IMO. I'll think on it
>>Is there no plan to have ASSASSIN STATUS show how may times you've been smushed.
Nope, not at the moment.
>>Would it be too much to ask for the option to volunteer to be on the assassin list as a target, but not be offered any contracts yourself?
You can just join and not request any other targets (Somebody else replied to this but didn't quote, so I figured I'd reiterate).
>>Not to expand on an already awesome idea, but I'd love to see if people could "choose sides" in the Assassin game.
That's a pretty different game :). Perhaps someday, but it won't be specifically related to Assassins, likely.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
