Armifer,

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, I'm actually fine with a retcon here. I understand everything you've said, and OOC, I don't have any particular emotional attachment to Sorcery being bad. And while I think it's perfectly fine to just let a lot of things play out however they do, and let characters draw their own conclusions based on what they see, I think Sorcery is a little different.

We all know that none of the Sorcery options in-game are capable of really hurting anyone but yourself, and I'm more than capable of running things that way. However, a lot of players have made a good-faith effort to suspend what we OOC know about the game in order to incorporate the received lore posts on the boards. For this reason, if that lore is changing and the only dangers are the ones directly represented in game, I think we should at least be aware of that fact because there would otherwise be no way to know barring new lore posts or NPC's telling us Sorcery is just fine.

I mean, we know that the Sorcery we have is basically risk-free in the game. We know there are characters that have cast Blackfire hundreds of times back in 2.0 with no real ill effects. We know that even a Perverse Necromancer character will never be piloted by GM's because a demon took control. We know that the game world will not end unless OOC business considerations determine it. But we pretend these things are possible because that's what the lore says. We pretend this because we care about the lore of the game that comes down on the forums. Specifically, we care about the lore you, personally, have written on the forums. For a number of people, the lore and the history is one of the main draws of this game. If that's changing, it's only fair to let us know.

I think maybe I can refine the questions down to something you might be more inclined to answer, that would at least give us the minimum we need. Would the average 150+ circle scholarly caster have any reason to believe that:

* there any are greater metaphysical consequences to cross-realm casting than is represented in-game?
* there any are greater metaphysical consequences to High Sorcery than are represented in-game?

I'm fully capable of having my character draw his own conclusions from what's represented in-game. I just need to know that it's what I need to do.

- Saragos

Very interesting post, Armifer, and everything you said makes sense, at least to me. Now I’m beyond curious as to what the impetus is behind the post though. Is it sparked by the Redeemed release and fluctuating reactions to necromancers generally?


Hope not ever to see Heaven. I have come to lead you to the
other shore; into eternal darkness; into fire and into ice. —Inferno

>>The recent (re?)release of Feral magic

Oh, were there really questions about that? We've had cataclysmic events in the magic of the universe a couple of times since the last time Feral magic was really seen, which is what my character has assumed is what makes it a bit different now.

>>and Redeemed Necros getting access to holy magic

And likewise, this is more a point of interest in how they have managed to achieve it, at least for a sorcerer whose native realm is Life and who "would like to know more click".

I would like to just add to the thoughts on Armifer's post, which I really do appreciate, that speaking for myself I understand that there are situations where it's more fun for everyone involved if something isn't explained 100%. I very much appreciate that a lot of in-game lore is biased one way or another, and the fun is role playing a character than believes too much. I actively role play a character who has too much faith in some aspects of in-game lore. Just let us know broadly what the situation is. Rakash, Prydean, Gnomes, and Kaldar were introduced as clearly new playable races that came from afar, so people could react accordingly. Imagine the confusion if they were live suddenly some day with no real explanation of where they came from.

~~
Lupdels

"Bards are widely regarded as excellent storytellers, but terrible cosmologists."

I totally agree with wanting a little clarification here. I get that things get changed and things get retconned. But what is the active lore as it stands?
What reason do I have not to use cross-realm sorcery? No one cares, there's no I.G. consequence for doing it. So lore wise, what is the modern cannon on why?
Sorcery especially is a topic that we have retconned, additioned, evolved, changed, etc so much that it's just blurry and at this point silly. We wanted Necromancers to be these big baddie Sorcerors yet everything that we knew prior to them was retconned because they no longer were masters in a guild like WM that expanded and began using other forms of magic to become uber Sorcerors who eventually took on mastery over death as Necromancers. (whew). So we neutered what made them Sorcerors then kept Sorcery and sorcery and then we ditched sorcery and said everything is Sorcery and quite frankly it's all super duper confusing from an OOC, IC, OOG, IG, Player, and I believe even GM standpoint on what does what mean why and how and now?

And if this post made no sense and seemed to ramble, that's what I feel like sorcery lore has turned into and I'm not entirely sure that the majority is of a different opinion than that.

>>Note there are consequences both concerning your characters health for backlashing, and with the law for backlashing in town. This is intentional, and has always been the case.

Not to mention the messaging that goes along with casting it is basically saying "this is crazy and you're insane for doing it". Which is frankly par for the course to what most adventurers do in their daily lives anyway but would still be totally bonkers to the normal folk who make up the vast majority of the population.

>>Not to mention the messaging that goes along with casting it is basically saying "this is crazy and you're insane for doing it".

I've had several conversations over the years, plus one in the past two days, with players who think there is not only nothing morally wrong with cross-realm casting, but that it is not "dark and unhinged" at all, nor is there any danger of going mad by doing it. They seem to rationalize it as "the law doesn't care, and the 'casting rationality aside' messaging just means you're being reckless/brave." Plus getting some backlash/injuries is really no big deal to an adventurer. We do dangerous things all the time, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I have zero problem with characters espousing these views (and there are good reasons for them to!). But when the players themselves don't know that it's supposed to be a choice that they can make for their characters, it can be a little frustrating. And I have found it difficult to dig up old forum posts in support, especially since the old "sorcery" vs. "Sorcery" distinction muddies the waters. Players often think that ALL the "dark and unhinged" posts about sorcery only apply to High Sorcery, or at least "not cross-realm casting." All this leads to cross-realm casting being the norm, not because of carefully made character choices, but because of ignorance of the lore.

Then again, maybe I am the one who is confused, and there really is nothing dark or madness-inducing about cross-realm casting. I have paid attention to all the lore posts over the years, but I haven't exactly kept and consolidated them. This is part of why I ask for some clarification.


- Navesi

The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald