First the Gweths:

[11:41] Einmyria: "They all work so hard to keep people out of Therengia, one wonders why they'd ever leave."
[11:41] Drachefeuer: "gonna have to second that, TG get out"
[11:41] [You] "Therengia only keeps undesirables out.. they hate Therengia so much it is a wonder they ever want to come back"
[11:42] Einmyria: "Therengians are undesirable everywhere else."
[11:42] Drachefeuer: "don't hate Therengia just TG"
[11:42] Drachefeuer: "go hunt with Shaheen in supers"
[11:43] Einmyria: "TG, ODS, NW... All you acronymed idiots."
[11:43] [You] "Ahh.. well then.. and really I care not what a Necromancer thinks."
[11:44] Einmyria: "Then you shouldn't care if that necromancer traipses about Therengia."
[11:45] [You] "We shall have to agree to disagree on your vile pursuits.. but we are on the islands, and I will respect the unwritten truce as will most Therengians..let it be"
[11:45] Issus: "What are you people doing? We maintain gweth silence on these islands! You are ruining everything!"
[11:45] [You] "Exactly Issus.. my apologies"
[11:46] Issus: "No one wants to be reminded that there's a world outside of M'riss and Kresh! WE COME HERE TO FORGET"
[11:47] Drachefeuer: "stop yelling making my head hurt"
[11:49] Traim: "I, for one, welcome Issus yelling in whatever medium. It's the screams you need to watch out for."
[11:50] [You] "Hrrrmmm I am being informed that the islands are no longer neutral.. when did this change?"
[11:51] Drachefeuer: "good point ill take gweth yelling over bardscreamhax"
[11:51] Issus: "Neutral regarding what? I probably won't have an opinion either way though."
[11:51] Drachefeuer: "neutral except for theren guard"
[11:52] Issus: "The islands must maintain neutrality in all things or we end up in a downward spiral. Vanmar: Never forget."
[11:52] Drachefeuer: "Vanmar was an abomination"
[11:52] Traim: "I am no authority on the matter, Sebestyen, nor am I involved in whatever this TG talk is, but it's possible the neutrality of the islands changed when Coenrad came here to kill Ogdaro."
[11:52] Traim: "Speculation though, entirely. I still think of this place as neutral."
[11:52] Drachefeuer: "tired of getting shot whenever i tour Therengia"
[11:53] Pariah: "Killing Therengians is fun regardless of your location. That's it."
[11:53] Drachefeuer: "when they arent hiding out anyway"

Then the confrontation:

[11:49] Jondong says, "Leave."
[11:49] Jondong says, "Or die."
[11:49] You say, "Heyo.."
[11:49] Jondong says, "Bottom line."
[11:49] You ask, "Leave where?"
[11:49] Jondong says, "Mriss and kresh."
[11:49] Jondong says, "Go back to the mainland."
[11:49] Jondong says, "Or you die."
[11:49] You say, "Well.. I was under the impression.."
[11:50] Jondong says, "I should kill you for engaging me the other day."
[11:50] You say, "That the islands are neutral."
[11:50] Jondong says, "While i faught firegard."
[11:50] Jondong says, "They aren't."
[11:50] You say, "Ahh.. well that is a different matter.."
[11:50] Jondong says, "Leave or die."
[11:50] Jondong says, "Your choice."
[11:50] Jondong says, "Theren guard folk are not wanted on this set of islands."
[11:50] You say, "I am not in the Guard."
[11:50] Jondong says, "Doesnt matter."
[11:50] Jondong says, "You fight witht hem."
[11:51] You say, "Well.."
[11:51] You say, "We have a home here.. and have been out here.."
[11:51] You say, "For.. years.."
[11:51] Jondong says, "Doesnt matter."
[11:51] Jondong says, "Leave or die."
[11:51] Jondong says, "Last chance."
[11:51] You say, "Not going anywhere."
[11:55] Jondong says, "You can see."
[11:55] Jondong says, "Im not an animal."
[11:56] Jondong says, "Now when you are awake."
[11:56] Jondong says, "Pack it up."
[11:56] Jondong says, "Move back to the mainland."
[11:56] Jondong says, "Tell the rest of the theren guard."
[11:56] Jondong says, "Mriss and kresh are no longer neutral."

Sebestyen

---

True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.

chuckles well that ends that line of consideration.

It ends no lines of consideration. If certain people or groups want to take that stance that is more than fine as long as it is done within policy and paying close attentions to profiles.

But why would the goverment be involved in it as long as Therengians are obeying the goverments laws?


GM Quarel Veryan - Events Team/P-2 Events.

Arkanon the goverments in game are not representitive goverments. They are either one single ruler or a council of rulers composed of the nobles or the wealthy they do not have to bow to the wishes of anyone in this setting.


GM Quarel Veryan - Events Team/P-2 Events.

>If a majority of the population in the islands is against it, I'm pretty sure the government would be forced to conform to the populace decision. And if the majority of the people actually ARE citizens, the government couldn't be happy about your government banning all of their citizens.


Of the 2.5 million people populating the islands, the small handful of actual players living there can't be considered anywhere close to a majority. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean you should pretend they're not there.

>>Of the 2.5 million people populating the islands, the small handful of actual players living there can't be considered anywhere close to a majority. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean you should pretend they're not there.

I'd also be greatly surprised if the local citizens/government/etc take offense at Therengia being against people who are, from my understanding, either Necromancers or aligned with Necromancers.

At best, Qi might be annoyed that, by banishing them from Therengia, they keep showing up in Qi.

It's not like Therengia is blocking Traders from Qi from making sales, preventing commerce from taking place.

---

"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2

>>At best, Qi might be annoyed that, by banishing them from Therengia, they keep showing up in Qi.

I still can't get over the notion of sending terrorists to other countries. Wouldn't that make automatic enemies?

>>I still can't get over the notion of sending terrorists to other countries. Wouldn't that make automatic enemies?

Possibly, if there isn't some kind of premade agreement about detaining them.

---

"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2

You would still have to deal with the rich and nobles of Qi, who presumably would have the attitude of most Rich and Important people, namely "NIMBY" - "not in my backyard". These people would resent the "unwashed filth" being thrown in their province, even if they are citizens of said province.


The closest analogy I could make would be the U.S. deporting all terrorists to Saudi Arabia <definately not a democracy> <Bin Laden was a Saudi by the way>. The monarchy there certainly doesn't want them back, particularly not if they are then free to commit acts of terrorism on their soil.

Now, if Qi had an agreement to Jail said persons, it would be possible, but just dumping them on your island without a "by your leave", would tend to promote tension between the two governments.


I think a more "politically savvy" solution would be the same one that Throne city uses for those it catches in the Museum - send 'em in a jail barge to the Riverhaven gaol.

The alternative would be turning them over to the Hounds or the Inquisition.







/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius

Taisidon -- The only population is a few hopes and a smattering of dreams.

---

You snap your furry fingers.

<<I look forward to the NPCs of Qi rising up against Quarel and emailing feedback to retaliate against his alleged provincial GM overreach/misinterpretation of their desires.>>


just wait until Sir Robyn's bytes achieve sentience. Fear him...




/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius

>>I still can't get over the notion of sending terrorists to other countries. Wouldn't that make automatic enemies?

>Possibly, if there isn't some kind of premade agreement about detaining them.


I was under the impression these people are just being evicted, not told to get out and go to X.

If this is the case, then I agree that the most likely response is annoyance that terrorists keep showing up. But the proper response would have been evicting your new infestation, not some random attack on Theren.

---

Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.

<<I'm not the only events GM but I am in contact with the others, in particular we discuss things like this when they come up. Just because you want things to be a certain way doesn't mean they will be. There are both IC RP considerations and OOC playability considerations to think about. Also I would appreciate it if your tone was a little less hostile.

Hostile? Facts are hostile? My opinion that actions should have consequences is hostile?

Let's hit the highlights, then.

<<The smuggler's council is by far the most egalitarian government in Elanthia

I'm perfectly willing to stand by this statement. Rissans select their councilors. No other government anywhere in Elanthia operates with even half the egalitarianism. Of course, if you're an off-islander you're scum, if you're S'Kra Mur you're scum, and if you're a Dragon Priest supporter you're the worst kind of scum. But those aren't governmental failings. All the Rissans share those opinions more or less equally.

<<you are the only provincial events GM

When a GM shows up whose signature says P4 Events I'll allow that this isn't true.

<<Coenrad knowingly and willingly violated the sovereignty of M'Riss on two occasions.

Do you really want to argue this?

<<Realistically this would have at the very least earned Therengia a formal censure

A formal censure from M'Riss is a great role-playing opportunity for Therengia. They can get all snooty and decide to look down their noses at the islands for a while.

<<but considering how antagonistic the Baron's people have been towards Rissans in general it would likely be much worse than a mere censure

Would you care to argue this point? By all means.

<<Thuggings and deportations to Pokekehepi beach would become normal for Therengians on the island

Why isn't what's good for the goose good for the gander, Quarel? Rissans are a bit rougher around the edges, so we don't send guards. We send thugs. Most people get the idea.

<<Zoluren and Ilithi have made a point of respecting M'Riss' sovereignty. Therengia has not. That should result in differences in how those provinces and their citizens interact with M'Riss.

Are you against actions having consequences, Quarel? Should we all just pretend that nobody is banned from Therengia?

>>Sort of disappointing how it sometimes feels like this game is the GMs' story and we're just paying a subscription price to read it.

Lately between the bannings, this stuff cropping up on the islands and the trial (sorry but yeah, still irked about that farce) that's about how I'm feeling as well.

--
Player of Leech Farmer Nithhogr

Last I heard the Rissan government operated much like a 'mafia' family with the ruler, Misdilev keeping tight control over the council and all the operations.

Misdilev attended Gyfford's coronation - he left rather happy that business arrangements continued as usual.

The only thing I see may slightly support your claim that Rissans in power are elected, is that the players were allowed to decide who among them would be commanders and ambassadors during the Outcast war.


Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor

If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.

Well as the commanders and ambassadors still had to be approved by the actual council, and as I recall at least one or two were remove quietly over time - you would still need the official approval to get anywhere.

As there's no war going that Qi is involved in, it seems more likely that they've gone the way the other provinces and disbanded the group.

They tend to like a low profile so that nothing interferes with their business operations. I would lean towards the more obvious opinion that realizing that Necromancers and their supports are bringing unnecessary attention to them and causing trouble in M'riss/MerKresh name - would conflict with their primary privateering interests.


Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor

If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.

Being deported from Therengia to the islands is an inconvenience and not something that happens because Q just goes, I don't wanna deal with them... flick. I'm very concerned with this turn of events since while it could be a RP opportunity, there is too much OOC crap going along with it. When Therengians are 'banned' from all the high level hunting grounds in the game, where do you folks propose that they hunt? Sorry folks, but you, too, have to consider playability. No one should have to go PvP closed just to hunt in an hunting ground in a neutral territory. Until the government of Qi and Boar Clan actually tell folks IC to ban Therengians(or anyone else), the best that you're doing is driving good people from the game. How many of you will continue to play if you aren't able to hunt and learn experience from it?

I loathe the banned lists, they've ruined brigade RP as far as I'm concerned in Therengia and is working itself through the entire game. Not a single member of one of the brigades signed up with the idea that 99% of our time would be caught up dealing with the banned list. I have people who can't enjoy training because they get called back to deal with problems daily. Folks are getting very tired of it, as they should. It has been getting out of control, but now this has tipped it over the edge. So much of the problems noted(ex Marrsi) exist because someone has taken the thing way out of bounds. It causes backlash like this and it's driving people from the brigades and it's making so much interaction between characters OOC in that they see [banned person I've never met before...], LEAVE NOW!!! Or... [Therengian I've never seen before] YOU'RE MEAN, LEAVE NOW!!! While this had serious potential for coolness, it's become a headache. I sincerely wish the banned lists would go away. Whatever function they had originally been designed to have has been twisted into something very ugly and bad for the game.

---

Player of: Lyathe and Saslisena

While this is getting wildly off-topic, and I'm going to end this tangent after this post, here's a bit more history.

The Elothean families of the House of the Glittering Diadem put forward their candidates when the time comes to chose a new Ferdahl. The stipulation for becoming Ferdahl is that they have to be of that house. Some families in the House are more influential then others. All Elotheans recognize the Ferdahl as their ruler.


The Elven clans in Ilithi rule over half of Ilithi, each house has a seat on the council, only some houses are more equal then others in their reach and influence. As we saw during the Empire, Morganae's attempts at taking more control ended up mostly thwarted. Each clan has an allegiance to their own house.


Similarly, the families in Mriss/MerKresh put forward their rep to their council seat, there are some council seats more equal then others. If they interfere with the interests of the Allvars - the family who heads the council - they are handled quietly.


Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor

If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.

I don't see it so much that "Theren Sucks" is the sentiment, more that "Therengians acting as they act should and will have repercussions." I don't really know a better place for that sort of thread since what's happening in Qi is probably the first of many repercussions in that line of thinking, though if there's one you think it best suited for we could definitely move it thataway.

-=Issus=-

<<I wouldn't personally go "what an egalitarian setup you guys have here" if it's supposed to be a mafia-style setup.

That's because you're an outsider. Stupid, ineffectual leaders don't remain in power in a system predicated on ruthlessness.

<<Beyond that, I question if a sorta-criminal-syndicate setup is going to be thrilled at the idea of needless heat being directed at them by locals deciding to start a war with the representatives of another province. I'm wondering what kind of benefit that sorta-syndicate would get out of it.

Oh, by no means am I arguing Therengians should be the only people to receive the "thank you for visiting, enjoy Ratha" treatment. Actions have consequences applies just as equally to the people on M'Riss who aren't part of the families.