Thank you for looking at the arrow volley damage and tweaking it. I look forward to the next invasion and seeing how I do.

I have seen that you have been experimenting with different ways to place invaders and such. One invasion I kind of enjoyed, after a few waves of smaller Elpalzi you started dropping individual champion malcontents one at a time. I was wandering around town using hunt to find the next one, and a group of us would try to kill it as quickly as possible before an arrow volley fired at us. There were a few times we were too slow and a volley came, but randomness must have been on my side that invasion because I never got hit.

We might have a catch-22 about your comment about people hanging out in front of the empath guild.
You spawn groups of Elpalzi in front of the empath guild because a lot of people sit there waiting for the invasion to come to them.
People congregate around the area in front of the empath guild because groups of Elpalzi are known to spawn there.
I know you can see the big picture better than we can, so there might really be people sitting there & would continue to sit there doing nothing even if groups of Elpalzi weren't coming to them.

I like claw-tipped arrows, for my own use and for giving away. I noticed the Elpalzi's quivers don't carry as many as they used to, but I figure you noticed we had accumulated a lot.
Not complaining there.. I was getting ready to talk about my strategy for Elpalzi invasions, one of which involves collecting claw-tipped arrows, and I got sidetracked.

I spend most of the invasion wandering to central areas of Crossing and using HUNT to find the next group of Elpalzi to engage. I pick a group based on two criteria:
1. Will they teach my primary weapon.
2. Will they contribute to my claw-tipped arrow collection.

Early on in the invasion the first waves I know won't teach me so I'm out there for the arrows. I'll pick groups of Elpalzi with multiple bow users first, champion/veteran bow users next, and normal bow users last.
When tougher waves show up I'll make killing the harder ones a priority over arrows.

I usually spend the first part of an invasion going solo. I'm moving from one place to another quick and taking down the bow users fairly quick.
When the tougher ones show up I have some friends that will often track me down and we'll take them on together, and a few other random people will ask to join too.

After the invasion has been going on for a while I start to see a trend of groups of champion invaders showing up in front of the empath guild.
The area in front of the empath guild I've started to attribute to frequent arrow volleys and a decent chance of death. You explained that it is random & there is an evasion check (thanks for the insight) so it is probably the frequency of arrow volleys that have caused me trouble. The randomness makes sense too. There was one invasion where I counted five volleys and survived them all, another where I counted five volleys and died once, and this last invasion where I counted three volleys and died twice. The common factor about all those deaths was they occurred in front of the empath guild (or one room south of there, for one of the last deaths)

For the other invasions, I avoided that room and just wandered around and never died.. except for one time I was dumb enough to rush into a fight with three champion malcontents with existing wounds and a trashed ranger bonus and got myself killed.

As for people taunting the Elpalzi.... can we have a mechanic for tying certain people to a post outside away from everyone so their taunts will only hurt them, not the rest of us? Kidding..kind of.
I remember one particular invasion where I was braving the arrow volleys in front of the empath guild, had survived several and was feeling pretty good. Another volley came and missed everyone. A certain individual happened to be walking through for that one and yelled a few choice words to the Elpalzi about their horrible aim. I had just enough time to quickly get some words out asking him to taunt the Elpalzi where he won't get the rest of us killed, when the next volley came and wiped out almost everyone in front of the guild. Not sure if you tweaked something for that volley, or if the RNG was on the Elpalzi's side that time, but it turned out perfect for them. Boy was I mad at that guy.. he was struck down a few more times that invasion and I might have smiled a bit each time I saw it.
I also heard there was a triage member with a big mouth that might have been partially responsible for bombs being delivered to triage.
Maybe we can ask the guards to put the taunters in the stocks and teach the Elpalzi a less violent method of dealing with their frustration using rotten fruit.


Besides the arrow volleys being frustrating, I have really enjoyed the other aspects of these invasions. Putting my arrow collecting in writing up above & reading it myself makes me feel a little pathetic and selfish for that.. but I do give them away!
Going around Crossing in small groups to take on the bigger invaders has been my favorite part by far.

You mentioned there is an evasion check and you mentioned you weren't going to give more hints about what other checks there are, so feel free to not answer this.. Is it checking straight evasion, or is it factoring in all the usual stuff.. balance, burden, all that? I guess the real question is, is my horrible tendency of being a burdened pack rat killing me?

Thanks again for tweaking those. I guess next time when there's a horde of champion invaders in front of the empath guild I'll charge right in and see if my luck improves. Hopefully when I get hit with arrows there in the future I'll be able to run to triage under my own power.

I haven't been at all involved, but I'm chiming in to say that I'm surprised that the primary defense against arrow volleys isn't a large shield.

Also, instant death is more shocking in the 3.0 combat paradigm since it almost never happens.

I personally have participated in any of the elpazi invasions but have heard a lot about the volleys and their lethality...
I too am surprised the the best defense against them is evasion and not a large shield.

Itd be cool too see something like

Paladin Joe with a large shield and 2 others with a large shield are in a group.

Paladin Joe takes his group into combat and leads... A volley is about to occur

*Paladin Joe, using his exceptional tactics, orders his group to form a shield wall to avoid the incoming volley.*

I was away for a couple weeks but I want to chime in on a couple things.

1) From my perspective, these invasions -HAD- a story line. Any story that was attached to it has evaporated due to lack of activity. For instance, there was a GM PC that was participating in organizing the militias? Haven't seen him in in game years. Ulf'hara Keep is still in ruins last time I checked... You'd think some kind of cleanup would happen years later? Some kind of permanent marker in the "room" where the keep was? Where are the bad guys? At what point do we get sick and tired of literally in game years of random invasions and find SOME way to get into the mountain and deal with the enemy? What happened to the Court Scribe? Who we were watching being literally tortured?

If something's changed since the New Year, I apologize for my ignorance on the next part -

From an in game perspective at this point, based simply on the delays how can you think of the nobility of Zoluren as anything other than completely uncaring for their people? The guards (which I understand are scripted and part of the justice system) are the only real touch you see of Zoluren government and they stand there while people get slaughtered. There's nothing, not a single tangible thing being done in character, in game that any of us are aware of to deal with this on going menace.

Its hard to feel like the Elpalzi are important anymore as a player because its perceived as directionless. Its hard to feel any kind of loyalty to Zoluren in character when nothing has changed to combat the enemy. For years.


2) Glad to hear the damage modifiers were tweaked. I needed to get away from DR for a few weeks, but right around the point where Caraamon had it, it fed me up too.

If this helps, the follow bits were included in a Simu newsletter:


* The Elpalzi, created by the Dragon Priests and once allies of the late Lord Sorrow, are making a menacing return. What are they after? Be on the lookout for their leader, Alret, and keep an ear out for any news on the captive Zoluren Court Scribe Iazen!
* Someone has been inquiring about the ruins of Ulf'Hara Keep and what, or who, may still lie within. Perhaps it's nothing more than the same gossips convinced the old keep was haunted! ...Perhaps not.

So it looks like things might be ramping up again.

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Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

I think perhaps there's more tweaking that needs to happen to the arrow volley mechanics. I don't exactly have much experience with them, but had the pleasant surprise of catching an invasion this evening (thanks for that, by the way!). Things were going pretty well, then suddenly this arrow volley showed up and killed pretty much everyone in the room. One completely destroyed my healthy abdomen, with the message saying "An arrow lodges lightly in your abdomen". That doesn't sound like it should have been a very big "success", but the amount of damage it inflicted was through the roof. I feel like it should have merely injured me a little bit, possibly even moderately. But flat-out destroying what it hit is way over the top.

I think the thing that bothers me the most about it is that these attacks don't respect barriers. I consider that to be a game-breaking oversight that should be resolved before such mechanics are used again. It's widely accepted that one-hit kills like this make for a terrible game play experience, and special event mechanics like this are no exception. I can appreciate the desire to throw unique stuff like this into the mix to keep things interesting, but it's my hope that further adjustments will be made before this particular mechanic is employed again.

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor

Hm, that's unfortunate. The explanation helps a bit though, thanks. I still think it should respect barriers though. As for moving around, I know there were a few times I wanted to move, but the champion creatures are specifically designed to prevent retreating. That makes it considerably harder to move around, when there's such enormous numbers of un-retreatable creatures in one room. I was specifically trying to move from that room at the time, but got held up by people asking for healing :/

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor

Volley those miscreants who loiter on the street! Maybe they will get the idea that the streets aren't the best place to hang out.

<<I think this may have been the new at-feet slot causing problems with movement. You shouldn't see this be the case next time. If it is, let us know.>>

Hm, that doesn't make much sense to me. I wasn't doing anything that would make use of the at-feet slot, and it's always been extra difficult to retreat from champion creatures even before at-feet went live. Having four of them engaged pretty much guarantees retreat failure, even if they're all incapacitated (which is itself a difficult feat to achieve). It was my understanding that this is an intentional design feature of these creatures.

Anywho, just something to keep in mind when trying to get people to move around. Sometimes they just get stuck and aren't actively trying to make the event come to them.

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor

<Ya'll kind of like herding cats sometimes.>

This is probably the single most accurate description of DR players I have ever heard.

To stay on point, I didn't get hit with any arrows this time, but the times I have, had various results. I've been alone roaming and had 8 arrows hit me with the worst causing a slight bleeder. I've been with 2 others and had one arrow to the knee kill me. I've been at Magen where multiple volleys hit and only taken one hit from the third or fourth volley and killed. The randomness seems to work sorta, but the one shots do seem to be an anywhere thing.

Taunting the Elpazi should be required IMO. Just for the flavor.

Hey Karthor, if you can't retreat then you should use FLEE.

<<Hey Karthor, if you can't retreat then you should use FLEE.>>

That did actually occur to me. The associated defensive penalty seemed like a bad idea when being attacked by already-difficult opponents though. That and the manner in which it's presented makes it a pretty out-of-character option when things haven't actually gotten too overwhelming (I could really do without the condescending messaging).

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor

On the subject of 'Elpalzi taunting,' and the flaying or whatever of those who do it... so, yeah, I play a mid-level character. I want to help with the war effort, but everything one shots me, so I can't fight. I'm not an empath or a cleric, so I can't heal or resurrect. I'm not a Paladin, so I can't cast lead or VOS. My options (both OOCly and ICly) are basically limited to running around aimlessly until I get arrowed, trying to cheer on the high circle people from the sidelines, or just leaving. Since I get yelled at for the second one, and I don't feel like losing my pools for no reason, I've just started logging off. Shaming younger players for trying to participate is really discouraging. It excludes people. I want to play too.

A lot of invasions offer waves of invaders with increasing difficulty, where the first several waves I think almost anyone can handle.

I know the Elpalzi do have waves of increasing difficulty, but I'm not sure of the skill level of the first waves.. from what I have heard they are still pretty well up there.
Guess I'm just saying, don't let the Elpalzi invasions turn you away from all invasions. There are some that you'll be able to help with. The auto-invasions are a good example of invasions with clearly defined waves of difficulty. (Are those still turned on? I used to see them daily, but I don't think I've seen one for weeks) Some of the story-line invasions had tiers for all skill levels too.



What I used to do in invasions before I was skilled enough to fight was scouting. I'd run around and announce where invaders were over the gweths and if I encountered a body as I scouted I would drag it to triage. Occasionally I'd add to the body count if something killed me as I dragged, but that mostly went away when a change was made where invaders would no longer instantly cast/fire at you as soon as you walked into a room.
When HUNT was added, that role became even easier. I could wander to central areas and use HUNT to scout out entire areas at once.

>>Yes, they're still working. They are completely player initiated subject to a timer by asking one of the wardens about invasions, so what you're likely seeing is the novelty wearing off and people asking the wardens about invasions less often.

Does the person asking impact the initial creature type?

"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh

>I play a mid-level character.

I play a circle 51 Thief, his combats are typically what sets him back from circling, and he's got some nice stats for his circle.

With this character I regular am out helping in invasions, its a matter of understanding what to do and not to do, and having some confidence to get it done.

What circle is 'mid-level' anyways?

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"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.