I'm sorry this is going to come off so negative but I've had it.

I'm done fighting Elpalzi. Period. I'm tired of randomly dying to arrow volleys. I'm just done.

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>You suddenly die to a volley, and the novice that just walked into the room is completely unscathed.<

Sure, but I think the issue here is that it's generally not a volley that kills you. It's one arrow. It would make sense dying from 10 arrows bypassing your defenses and riddling you with damage. However, every time I've died from these attacks it has been one arrow takes off my head or something to that effect. I go from 100% vitality to dead in one hit. It is a sudden crit death.

--Just a Squire

>I like arrow volleys, I just think they need to tone-down the auto death that all to frequently seem to result from them.<

Exactly.

--Just a Squire

The randomness of it is rather frustrating as well. I've had times where 3 or 4 have hit me in one volley and vitality drops to like 85. Then a couple more next volley. Third volley none hit. Go hit triage and get healed, walk back out and one arrow to the knee and BAM dead. The crit one shot is annoying but so is the randomness. Haven't noticed a difference in the hits when using a targe or tower shield so not sure that even matters.

I would like to see the arrows tweaked some if they can be.. Instead of completely destroying the body part it hits, maybe halfway destroy it and have the poison be serious enough that it will finish the job within a minute if you don't get to triage.

..or have it behave differently based on where the arrow hits. If it hits a limb, destroy it. If it hits the torso or other critical body part it will put you near death where you have to find assistance quickly.
If an arrow hits you in the head or two arrows happen to hit you in another critical place then you die. Just reduce the % chance of instant death please. Let me have a better chance to survive it.


I died twice last invasion. I'm pretty sure I was only there for three arrow volleys, two of which killed me.
We were down to just champion invaders in front of the empath guild. I knew arrow volleys were going to be falling there because they always do.. I decided to take the risk anyway and I soon regretted it.
After triage did an excellent job quickly bringing me back, I wandered town killing the Elpalzi that showed up elsewhere, avoiding any crowds, and watched the scene in front of the empath guild from a distance, dragging bodies of others that were killed by volleys as I could.
I had just left the empath guild after dragging a body in and immediately ran south of the guild where I thought I was relatively safe. A bunch of Elpalzi teleported in and I was excited for a second, having a new swarm of Elpalzi to kill! The second after that a volley came giving me my second death.

Arrow volleys are a cool idea but why not have the arrow volleys be within an actual enemy camp that the players need to raze in order to prevent them? Then, during the next invasion, the archers are out of commission until they can gather enough supplies or re-entrench themselves into a new position. Giving the players an enemy and a goal to reach, even when the threat is all too real (volley/death), would enhance the experience of this mechanic rather than turning it into a redundant randomized death that causes a player to feel completely powerless.

If they never were in a room that had Elpalzi it in, it was because no one was firing them there. There's no way, to my knowledge, however to get them to hit creatures (but I'm going to double check). Much like a lot of other "effect" type things its one of those curious things that only hits adventurers.

Kind of like how mosquitoes only like people with certain smelling blood.

~Evike

Whenever I get involved with an invasion, I assume im dead in the next 15 minutes.


So if I dont feel like dying I just avoid em all together so that might be the difference in opinions.

Im not saying if you dont feel like dying avoid the invasion.



Im saying thats what I do.



So perhaps thats why I have a difference of opinion.

> If they never were in a room that had Elpalzi it in, it was because no one was firing them there. There's no way, to my knowledge, however to get them to hit creatures (but I'm going to double check). Much like a lot of other "effect" type things its one of those curious things that only hits adventurers.

Hah! Okay, I was willing to give Alret the benefit of the doubt and assume that he wasn't ordering his archers to fire into his own soldiers... But now I'm totally mocking him for the waste. Even if the mechanics do say the elpalzi are immune to volleys. So nyeh.

Same with gidii/kittens/frogs/rabbits/gnome babies, I'm assuming? Elpalzi in a room where a gidii goes off are immune to the blast?

-Aislynn

>Same with gidii/kittens/frogs/rabbits/gnome babies, I'm assuming? Elpalzi in a room where a gidii goes off are immune to the blast?

Correct. The game sees "Elpalzi = creature" and doesn't affect them.


I've turned the damage modifier on the unit that fires the arrows by half, so we'll see how that looks next time I run an invasion.

~Evike

I'm a pretty heavy RP guy so things like this don't tend to phase me on a personal level. My Paladin is going to be involved in an invasion because that's what Paladins do regardless the circumstances in his mind.

My concern about this stuff lies more in the dynamics of the invasions themselves. To me one of the issues Dr is having these days is that players do not interact with each other all that much. Invasions to me are an instance where that can be affected.

One of the general tactics that I have heard spoken of a lot during this event is do not gather in groups, groups get targeted, you will die more if you are in a group. While I understand this from a tactical viewpoint I feel like it's a mistake for general game play. With players even more inclined to run about as lone rangers today I feel that invasions could be a tool to get folks to work together more. If Players feel there is an advantage to operating in a group they are far more likely to give it a whirl.

When I was in Ilithi my standard for invasions was to pick a spot in town and gweth out that the spot was being held. I didn't tell folks to specifically join me but they got the idea. Sometimes there are lower circle folks who want to participate but are unsure what they can do alone. If they feel that they are just going to run out and get killed motivation can be slim. However if that same person can join a group their chances may improve. It's my experience that is that they know the limits of what they can bring to the table individually but when they look around and see that they may be able to attack while others stand in front of the enemy, and notice they are strolling about town with fifteen spells on them the confidence go's up. This to me creates a team mentality that benefits the game in general.

My feeling is that while you definitely need to keep the challenge level going in invasions this group dynamic is actually very important and needs be both supported and nurtured. The player base is not going to change it's game play style without there being some sort of benefit to them, and they certainly will not change when it's actually worse for them to try and work in groups.

Leucius

Never argue with an idiot, they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

>When I was in Ilithi my standard for invasions was to pick a spot in town and gweth out that the spot was being held. I didn't tell folks to specifically join me but they got the idea. Sometimes there are lower circle folks who want to participate but are unsure what they can do alone. If they feel that they are just going to run out and get killed motivation can be slim. However if that same person can join a group their chances may improve. It's my experience that is that they know the limits of what they can bring to the table individually but when they look around and see that they may be able to attack while others stand in front of the enemy, and notice they are strolling about town with fifteen spells on them the confidence go's up. This to me creates a team mentality that benefits the game in general.

>My feeling is that while you definitely need to keep the challenge level going in invasions this group dynamic is actually very important and needs be both supported and nurtured. The player base is not going to change it's game play style without there being some sort of benefit to them, and they certainly will not change when it's actually worse for them to try and work in groups.

I feel what Leucius said was really well put.

>While this is sort of true, its also perception. People alone get hit just as much.
They get hit as often, or the volleys are fired into their area as often? Because it seems that the Magen Road area infront of the Empaths' Double door is hit more then twice as often as other places. And it seems that groups in general are where the arrow volleys hit. Your right it is perception, but is there some truth to that empirical evidence.

> I find, however, (and this is unfortunate) that people would rather sit and make comments on the gweth than actual fight -- EVEN when its just the low level Elpalzi invading. I notice this during any invasion -- not just my own, since not all GMs who invade use the arrows (because we give you a respite).
And piggy-backing off of Leucius, having the new Dupre and Hengwild invasions, means I have a better feel for hanging tough and knowing manners to keep myself in the fight, alive not really safe but alive and trying to get a jab in that might hit, or getting the balance up to through a maneuver cleave to hit.

Thanks so much for spending the time and responding to our inquires and well probably some of them were complaints, but thanks Evike!

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"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

I like helping out in invasions. I also don't mind dying if the creatures outclass me. I stopped showing up to these when I know already that I will randomly die with 0 checks. If I didn't have to horde my spell scrolls it would be slightly better, but I doubt I would be willing to show up knowing I will die just because invasions are suppose to be dangerous.

Want dangerous invasions? Spawn some 1750 creatures and beyond not instant random death.

- Erixx

I wouldn't say it is unappreciated. Champions are fun, but you can't really fight them when you're lying around dead because of RNG. Besides, I thought the days of one shots were dead when 3.0 was rolled out. Or does that only apply to players?

As far as people standing around Magen Road and waiting.. yeah, there are some that do that, but most people roam around. Do some venture only a few rooms away? Sure. Do some venture all over town? Yes. Do some venture outside of town? Yes. I would gather that would be a fairly popular tactic as well, as people are there to stand guard around the hospital.. assisting those that are hurt and need help, while protecting the ones that are trying to heal. And some of them are just lazy.

If you want to take on a wholly defensive approach and be like "oh I'm unappreciated" etc etc, well we can't help how you feel about it. I think the RNG is just more of a factor now when RNG was removed from our arsenal because of "balance."

To me so very little instant kills us these days, its just something fun that gets the heart beat going, knowing you are risking it all for the moment.


And realize my character is by no means a popular fellow, last invasion I laid dead for over 20 minutes before I just took the hit an departed, no saved mems, no locates, nada.


Im not saying everyone should play the way I do, im just saying dont be so hasty to condemn something unique because it does exactly as it is intended.

Mebbe there is a common ground, like some sort of 30 second audible warning before the volleys trigger?

>>So whats the check for defending against the volleys, luck?

There are several checks involved, but the most prominent is evasion based.

>>If the goal is to have more people to participate, perhaps have a story line.

There is in fact a storyline involved with the Elpalzi invasions -- one that has to this date literally made significant changes to Zoluren, including the permanent deaths of several long standing NPCs and the destruction of the home of its royal family. There is more to come.

While we do sometimes do one-off invasions as GMs (ie: ones where the only real story behind them is that creature X is irritable enough to go into a town and attack), the particular ones that were brought up in this thread are not that sort.

>>It also blows me away that invasion creatures don't have special loot now and then. That alone would have everyone in Elanthia gunning to defend cities.

Speaking about invasions in general, we do have invasion creatures that drop special loot now and then. The Elpalzi in particular, however, have not really been in that category beyond their base ability to drop special items because they are creatures who drop loot.

-Persida

Knock-off derailing the discussion with bickering.

This isn't the conflicts folder.


Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor

If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.

For some reason my post was hidden because there was assumed sarcasm - there wasn't.

Anyhow, my reply to Hexed..

>>Maybe I'm the only one, maybe I'm not

I've enjoyed it when it's occuring. I think the primary "problem" I have had with it is that it's been sporatic with a few events here and there, sometimes there's an invasion then sometimes it's quiet for months.. I dunno. Just seems to have gone on for a very long time. Not a complaint, or lack of appreciation, just leaves a question out there if there actually is a war going on or someone pressing the "invasion" button when they remember to do so.

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However, back on topic.. thanks again for looking into RNG auto death on arrow volleys.

>I've enjoyed it when it's occuring. I think the primary "problem" I have had with it is that it's been sporatic with a few events here and there, sometimes there's an invasion then sometimes it's quiet for months.. I dunno. Just seems to have gone on for a very long time. Not a complaint, or lack of appreciation, just leaves a question out there if there actually is a war going on or someone pressing the "invasion" button when they remember to do so.

I get that. I mean, it's not like with a lot of other long-term war storylines that we've seen in the past where the aggressor is clearly visible and positioned to permeate everyday life within the game until the conflict is resolved. (IE: undead everywhere during Lyras War, Gorbesh constantly attacking during Gorbesh War, etc.) But that's really an issue about perception and tactics, some players feel nothing is going on because the tactics that are being used by the Elpalzi are more akin to guerrilla-style fighting and not the full blown frontlines style battle that are customary when armies fight each other.

I have talked to others who do not like the current style of warfare and have admitted that the length of this storyline has caused them to be disinterested in it. While I do not share their views, I can understand it. If I were an active combatant, I might share those views. But, since I'm not, I find that the story itself and the actions that have taken place is something that continues to keep my interest. Both Orders and individual players have stepped up to keep folks engaged by hosting talks about the conflict or the Elpalzi history, speaking about it in public gatherings like town meetings, or posting summaries about the events like Navesi does for the Tavern Troupe in the Zoluren folder here on forums.

I can really appreciate bringing something new in terms of DR conflict stories, and the atypical methods that are being used. However, I do understand people losing interest due to the length of time and lack of 24/7 conflict. It's a fine line to walk and we'll all just have to see how it pans out.

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Salute a drowned sailor? You ought to brush up on your protocol, Kasto.