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@PURHEART
>>You seem heck bent on thinking folks metagamed it, I could care less either way. I knew I wasnt gonna spend the day chasing certain folks across the realms, so >>some considerations had to be made.
Simple and to the point. We gave you tons of consideration. The way we setup to the info you had. You gave us none. Hence problem. There is no both our faults. There is no magical both sides had issues. Team Bad Guys handed you rp in a nicely gift wrapped box on the concept we were exchanging gifts. You took the gift, unwrapped it and used it to stab us in the face. That is the problem simple and true. The next time needs to be a lesson. When you as team good guys are invited to rp and given alot of consideration, give at least a little bit in return.
OMEGANECRO
FUTILITY
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/10/2018 05:50 PM CDT
I'm not really getting the complaint here. You're angry that the good guys came in crossbows blazing when you were in the middle of a ritual to summon a greater evil? That's, frankly, exactly what you should have expected.
As I noted, an OOC-supplied banner would have been nice to give everyone some time for monologuing and bantering, but file that under lessons learned.
There was a lot of role-play in the build up to Saturday's event. From what I understand, it occurred on both sides of the event. If you didn't participate in any of it, that'd be a missed opportunity.
But things aren't supposed to be easy for necromancers. Clerics and Paladins have a divine mandate to foil their schemes. Big workings get big responses.
As I noted, an OOC-supplied banner would have been nice to give everyone some time for monologuing and bantering, but file that under lessons learned.
There was a lot of role-play in the build up to Saturday's event. From what I understand, it occurred on both sides of the event. If you didn't participate in any of it, that'd be a missed opportunity.
But things aren't supposed to be easy for necromancers. Clerics and Paladins have a divine mandate to foil their schemes. Big workings get big responses.
ARMAGNA
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/10/2018 06:36 PM CDT
Let me apologize again if took the time to show up to any of these events and didn't have a good time. The goal has always been to present opportunities for the community to come together and have fun, and I'd like, in light of the critiques laid out in this thread, to explain a bit, since I feel a great deal of gratitude to RP community of DR, and specifically to the players of necromancers I've been lucky enough to interact with in the past.
>I'm a little disappointed to read this thread, as it sounds like "team good" have been guilty of doing something we begged "team bad" not to do.
>It amazes me still that so many people came from the word of one person who said hey they are doing bad things without questioning.
It is very hard to hear these sorts of critiques given the amount of time my character and many others put into discussing the events over the span of months. Tirost spoke to many people about the crown - where it came from, why he thought it belonged to Vorclaf, what he was going to do about it, whether his past associations with necromancers meant he brought the loss of the crown upon himself. He presented his evidence and ideas countless times to people in game, in hopes that, when the time came, allies would rise up in arms to fight. Many other characters spoke on topics related to these events as well, whether they were skeptical of the whole thing, or whether they saw retrieving the crown as their sacred duty.
The last event was always designed as a PvP event, partially in a (misguided?) attempt by me to answer the accusation that RP = sitting in a chat room, partially because it was meant to appeal to players who enjoy that aspect of the game, and partially because it made sense from what took place in the previous events. It was never meant to be a gathering where one group would have dialogue with the other (though I hoped there would be good conversational RP before and after the actual attack) - in fact, the entirety of team good's plan was to perform a swift and devastating blitz. The planning team was aware of this, and, in hindsight we should have done a far better job of expressly stating what was likely to happen, though we made every effort to keep the results of the encounter as fluid as possible.
The planning team will tell you, on the OOC level, I had always hoped that team Perverse would destroy the gem and team good would win back the crown. Together, the planning team decided not to go with a scripted result. The timing, with the number of people participating, and with all the scroll, was not easy to manage during the actual event. We really didn't know how many people to expect, and I think we learned a lot, but I think all I can really do is apologize, and try to explain that this event, no matter how it turned out, was not designed to have a discursive component between team Perverse and team good.
>My suggestion would be, don't see that event as the "main" event, switch the view and make it purely a stage - The killing has happened, now feed off of it, in smaller groups with drawn out expectations.
This has more or less always been my hope, and a part of the story arc from its inception. We hoped to setup the character of Nefis as an epic villain, a necromancer with the power and vision to wrest a sacred artifact from a naive warrior mage, and offer it to sources of power that the cowardly "good" characters could never face. I also hope the series of events provided similar opportunities for many other characters to gain renown with the community for their actions and reactions throughout this series of events, and whatever the community comes up with in the aftermath.
>There has to be some kind of rp concession given because maybe IC you cannot fathom speaking to a necromancer for whatever reason, but for god sake we literally put ourselves out there FOR you to kill and asked for rp, and you didnt give it to us. At any time you could of choose like us to taken a moment to rp, but instead you didnt. Thats the issue.
In the end I feel terrible that anyone on team necro perceives this last event as something unfair or unfun. I also feel like I failed to create a way for Philosopher necromancers, to whom I owe so many awesome RP experiences, to play a role that made sense in this arc. And I agree that it is extremely uncommon for there to be a context where a Perverse necromancer could interact with a variety of "good" characters that would never do so willingly, aside from pre-battle banter.
If there is interest in that sort of RP, I've got plenty of (lame) ideas (though maybe someone better at this sort of thing should organize).
I truly hear you on the difficulties of finding good opportunities for large scale RP as a Perverse necromancer (or bad guy), and I'm sorry this event didn't provide what you were looking for. I still feel thankful that my character was able to join with so many allies, and saw so many frightening and legendary necromancers gathered for a dark ritual, and hope that this arc will be something that builds your character's story in a way that you find interesting.
>WE INVITED YOU TO THIS. Nefis could of made this private. He could of not leaked info. We can easily hide, easily do things in the shadows as our kits are setup for this.
>When you as team good guys are invited to rp and given alot of consideration, give at least a little bit in return.
With respect, I can't overstate how strongly I disagree with this characterization of how the event was set up. The ritual involved sacrificing items a large group of people spent a lot of time developing into a meaningful thing, by combing through the 'pedia to develop the right items, incorporating in game objects like Lasika's notebook (thank you again, player of Lasika!), meeting with people from all sides who were familiar with the events surrounding Vorclaf's death, coordinating event times with various groups and team members, editing and posting logs, writing in character fiction posts, answering logistical questions on discord, and improvising many small meetings in game. This was not a necro ritual event that was supposed to be private that was invaded by "good guys" who mercilessly killed when they should have been conversing. It was a months long storyline based around lore and a few items I invented expressly for the purpose of telling a story with anyone who was interested.
Previous to the Fate event, an awesome initiation ritual was conducted in private (here's a link for a great ICF post describing it: http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Social%20Side%20of%20DragonRealms/In-Character%20Fiction/view/539 ). I have also been lucky enough to experience other necromancer-centered rituals and RP events, some of which have resulted in my character lying on a slab, or dead from an acid bath, or watching friends be dragged away for torture, or having his corpse mutilated. In each case, those conflicts lead to awesome storylines and relationships that continue to this day, and I sincerely encourage you to organize events that allow for the sorts of interactions you're looking for. I only ask that you not mischaracterize this event as a trap, or a gift that you were bestowing on those who proved ungrateful.
We tried very hard to deliver a fun community event, and to be as transparent as possible about what was likely to happen in each event, while still preserving a sense of mystery and agency. If you were expecting something different, or saw yourself as giving the gift of your presence to the story, and didn't feel like you got what you deserved from it, I'm sorry. Maybe this series of events wasn't for you, and, if I ever get the opportunity to work with such awesome roleplayers in the future, I'll try harder to make sure everyone can feel good about their part, and that their character's story played out in a way that they liked.
>I'm a little disappointed to read this thread, as it sounds like "team good" have been guilty of doing something we begged "team bad" not to do.
>It amazes me still that so many people came from the word of one person who said hey they are doing bad things without questioning.
It is very hard to hear these sorts of critiques given the amount of time my character and many others put into discussing the events over the span of months. Tirost spoke to many people about the crown - where it came from, why he thought it belonged to Vorclaf, what he was going to do about it, whether his past associations with necromancers meant he brought the loss of the crown upon himself. He presented his evidence and ideas countless times to people in game, in hopes that, when the time came, allies would rise up in arms to fight. Many other characters spoke on topics related to these events as well, whether they were skeptical of the whole thing, or whether they saw retrieving the crown as their sacred duty.
The last event was always designed as a PvP event, partially in a (misguided?) attempt by me to answer the accusation that RP = sitting in a chat room, partially because it was meant to appeal to players who enjoy that aspect of the game, and partially because it made sense from what took place in the previous events. It was never meant to be a gathering where one group would have dialogue with the other (though I hoped there would be good conversational RP before and after the actual attack) - in fact, the entirety of team good's plan was to perform a swift and devastating blitz. The planning team was aware of this, and, in hindsight we should have done a far better job of expressly stating what was likely to happen, though we made every effort to keep the results of the encounter as fluid as possible.
The planning team will tell you, on the OOC level, I had always hoped that team Perverse would destroy the gem and team good would win back the crown. Together, the planning team decided not to go with a scripted result. The timing, with the number of people participating, and with all the scroll, was not easy to manage during the actual event. We really didn't know how many people to expect, and I think we learned a lot, but I think all I can really do is apologize, and try to explain that this event, no matter how it turned out, was not designed to have a discursive component between team Perverse and team good.
>My suggestion would be, don't see that event as the "main" event, switch the view and make it purely a stage - The killing has happened, now feed off of it, in smaller groups with drawn out expectations.
This has more or less always been my hope, and a part of the story arc from its inception. We hoped to setup the character of Nefis as an epic villain, a necromancer with the power and vision to wrest a sacred artifact from a naive warrior mage, and offer it to sources of power that the cowardly "good" characters could never face. I also hope the series of events provided similar opportunities for many other characters to gain renown with the community for their actions and reactions throughout this series of events, and whatever the community comes up with in the aftermath.
>There has to be some kind of rp concession given because maybe IC you cannot fathom speaking to a necromancer for whatever reason, but for god sake we literally put ourselves out there FOR you to kill and asked for rp, and you didnt give it to us. At any time you could of choose like us to taken a moment to rp, but instead you didnt. Thats the issue.
In the end I feel terrible that anyone on team necro perceives this last event as something unfair or unfun. I also feel like I failed to create a way for Philosopher necromancers, to whom I owe so many awesome RP experiences, to play a role that made sense in this arc. And I agree that it is extremely uncommon for there to be a context where a Perverse necromancer could interact with a variety of "good" characters that would never do so willingly, aside from pre-battle banter.
If there is interest in that sort of RP, I've got plenty of (lame) ideas (though maybe someone better at this sort of thing should organize).
I truly hear you on the difficulties of finding good opportunities for large scale RP as a Perverse necromancer (or bad guy), and I'm sorry this event didn't provide what you were looking for. I still feel thankful that my character was able to join with so many allies, and saw so many frightening and legendary necromancers gathered for a dark ritual, and hope that this arc will be something that builds your character's story in a way that you find interesting.
>WE INVITED YOU TO THIS. Nefis could of made this private. He could of not leaked info. We can easily hide, easily do things in the shadows as our kits are setup for this.
>When you as team good guys are invited to rp and given alot of consideration, give at least a little bit in return.
With respect, I can't overstate how strongly I disagree with this characterization of how the event was set up. The ritual involved sacrificing items a large group of people spent a lot of time developing into a meaningful thing, by combing through the 'pedia to develop the right items, incorporating in game objects like Lasika's notebook (thank you again, player of Lasika!), meeting with people from all sides who were familiar with the events surrounding Vorclaf's death, coordinating event times with various groups and team members, editing and posting logs, writing in character fiction posts, answering logistical questions on discord, and improvising many small meetings in game. This was not a necro ritual event that was supposed to be private that was invaded by "good guys" who mercilessly killed when they should have been conversing. It was a months long storyline based around lore and a few items I invented expressly for the purpose of telling a story with anyone who was interested.
Previous to the Fate event, an awesome initiation ritual was conducted in private (here's a link for a great ICF post describing it: http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Social%20Side%20of%20DragonRealms/In-Character%20Fiction/view/539 ). I have also been lucky enough to experience other necromancer-centered rituals and RP events, some of which have resulted in my character lying on a slab, or dead from an acid bath, or watching friends be dragged away for torture, or having his corpse mutilated. In each case, those conflicts lead to awesome storylines and relationships that continue to this day, and I sincerely encourage you to organize events that allow for the sorts of interactions you're looking for. I only ask that you not mischaracterize this event as a trap, or a gift that you were bestowing on those who proved ungrateful.
We tried very hard to deliver a fun community event, and to be as transparent as possible about what was likely to happen in each event, while still preserving a sense of mystery and agency. If you were expecting something different, or saw yourself as giving the gift of your presence to the story, and didn't feel like you got what you deserved from it, I'm sorry. Maybe this series of events wasn't for you, and, if I ever get the opportunity to work with such awesome roleplayers in the future, I'll try harder to make sure everyone can feel good about their part, and that their character's story played out in a way that they liked.
OMEGANECRO
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/10/2018 06:38 PM CDT
Okay so lets discuss this in multiple angles so you understand.
First and foremost this has nothing to do about the build up. Yes the build up could of been handled differently but that is another can of worms.
This is targeted to just the ending of the event.
The ended was supposed to be centered around RP.
NOW lets first discuss everything that team bad guy AKA Necroamcners gave team good guy to get you guys started off so we can have this even.
NOTE THIS IS ALLLLLLLLLLL NOT WHAT ANY OF OUR CHARACTERS WOULD NORMALLY DO THIS IS CONSIDERATION GIVEN TO YOU SO THAT TEAM GOOD GUY CAN RP WITH US
got it?
Let me explain this better. All of these things a Necromancer would not normally do, but for the consideration of rp and the greater good of having rp in the realms we did this setup. We did this setup because we invited team good to be part of an event that might of setup for future events where we could of all had great rp.
A. We gave you the location of the ritual
B. The leader of your side knew what the ritual was on ooc
C. We gathered together as necromancers more then a few of us in a location that wasnt secure (this doesnt happen ever)
D. We gathered without using our invisibility buffs or hidden so that we may have dialog for you
E. Our pets were set to defensive
F. We had no constructs in the room with us
G. We did not attack you when you walked in
What considerations Team Good Guys gave us that were our of their norm:
Nothing
Roleplay didnt happen, and if you keep thinking this is the right way to approach this response you are mistaken. You were given consideration We were not. You gave no dialog, no pause to check any of the storylines going on. You did nothing but kill. That was not what this was.
Things are not ever easy for us, its why we rp with each other, but given the realms issues lately where we are trying to do player driven rp, the mindset you have shown ruins it. It makes us who do have a lively rp storylines ongoing behind the scenes in the shadows not want to invite you in because you cant even understand the basic concept of taking a moment to consider anyone else but your own rp. No insult to you, but that mindset is toxic to a player driven rp environment.
The thought process I was hoping would be agreed upon is simple. Hey guys the team bad guys spent alot of work trying to get some rp, and gave us alot of consideration (which you admitted to us doing) and we didnt give them any. Next time lets try to make this more rp driven and find a better way then just try to search and destroy so everyone gets to have fun.
THINGS YOU COULD OF DONE FOR CONSIDERATION:
Walked into a room and not come in gun blazing. Yes you had ooc knowledge that something bad was going down but did you know what it was? Did you even ask?
Taken a sec to listen to anything that was going on before casting a spell.
Ask Hey whats going on her
Talk to the captured person
Looked to see if the crown was on the altar and say soomething about where is the crown (it was not)
accused us all of necromancy and ask us to come quietly all you shall kill us all
ANY KIND OF DIALOG WHAT SO EVER.
Its simple. GM's dont need to baby sit us to RP, but we as players need to be considerate of each other. We as the Bad Guys were considerate of you. NEXT time give us some consideration. Thats it. Its easy. RP first kill after. SIMPLY this.
First and foremost this has nothing to do about the build up. Yes the build up could of been handled differently but that is another can of worms.
This is targeted to just the ending of the event.
The ended was supposed to be centered around RP.
NOW lets first discuss everything that team bad guy AKA Necroamcners gave team good guy to get you guys started off so we can have this even.
NOTE THIS IS ALLLLLLLLLLL NOT WHAT ANY OF OUR CHARACTERS WOULD NORMALLY DO THIS IS CONSIDERATION GIVEN TO YOU SO THAT TEAM GOOD GUY CAN RP WITH US
got it?
Let me explain this better. All of these things a Necromancer would not normally do, but for the consideration of rp and the greater good of having rp in the realms we did this setup. We did this setup because we invited team good to be part of an event that might of setup for future events where we could of all had great rp.
A. We gave you the location of the ritual
B. The leader of your side knew what the ritual was on ooc
C. We gathered together as necromancers more then a few of us in a location that wasnt secure (this doesnt happen ever)
D. We gathered without using our invisibility buffs or hidden so that we may have dialog for you
E. Our pets were set to defensive
F. We had no constructs in the room with us
G. We did not attack you when you walked in
What considerations Team Good Guys gave us that were our of their norm:
Nothing
Roleplay didnt happen, and if you keep thinking this is the right way to approach this response you are mistaken. You were given consideration We were not. You gave no dialog, no pause to check any of the storylines going on. You did nothing but kill. That was not what this was.
Things are not ever easy for us, its why we rp with each other, but given the realms issues lately where we are trying to do player driven rp, the mindset you have shown ruins it. It makes us who do have a lively rp storylines ongoing behind the scenes in the shadows not want to invite you in because you cant even understand the basic concept of taking a moment to consider anyone else but your own rp. No insult to you, but that mindset is toxic to a player driven rp environment.
The thought process I was hoping would be agreed upon is simple. Hey guys the team bad guys spent alot of work trying to get some rp, and gave us alot of consideration (which you admitted to us doing) and we didnt give them any. Next time lets try to make this more rp driven and find a better way then just try to search and destroy so everyone gets to have fun.
THINGS YOU COULD OF DONE FOR CONSIDERATION:
Walked into a room and not come in gun blazing. Yes you had ooc knowledge that something bad was going down but did you know what it was? Did you even ask?
Taken a sec to listen to anything that was going on before casting a spell.
Ask Hey whats going on her
Talk to the captured person
Looked to see if the crown was on the altar and say soomething about where is the crown (it was not)
accused us all of necromancy and ask us to come quietly all you shall kill us all
ANY KIND OF DIALOG WHAT SO EVER.
Its simple. GM's dont need to baby sit us to RP, but we as players need to be considerate of each other. We as the Bad Guys were considerate of you. NEXT time give us some consideration. Thats it. Its easy. RP first kill after. SIMPLY this.
JULIAN
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/10/2018 07:04 PM CDT
I don't know if Totenus speaks for everyone involved on the necro side, so I'm just going to address this to him. If what I'm describing doesn't sound like it fits your view then it's not directed at you, and I'm glad to work on things with you in the future.
After taking some time to process this thread and your complaints, I think the conclusion I've come to is I'm a lot less keen about doing scripted eventing with you.
I would never tell you how to feel about the event. Your feelings about it are totally valid given your expectations about what was supposed to happen and how you think people should have acted toward you. I feel bad that you're so frustrated and upset, because I had a good time and my intention was never that anyone have a bad time. I think I've tried to brainstorm ways that things could be better next time and we talked about a lot of those ideas in Discord and a little bit on the forums.
But when I look at my feelings about the event and the aftermath, and think about the things you've said and the accusations you've made toward me and the "good" team, my overwhelming reaction is that I have zero desire to be responsible for meeting your expectations. Expectations that no one voiced to me in the lead up to the finale when I could have adjusted to them, and that on reflection I might not have agreed to cleave to had anybody asked because I have my ideas about how things should be done and they're as valid as yours, and as valid as anyone's. If the price of eventing with you is that I have to submit to your blame and your temper when things don't go the way you'd like then I would just as soon skip it and RP with people who are willing to discuss and make changes moving forward without getting personally hurt if it's not all done their way.
On even further reflection, our side did as much or even more to develop this event and make it good as you did. We wrangled the people, had the arguments, fought and schemed amongst ourselves, and provided a context and impact you couldn't have had RPing within your group. How dare you suggest that you graciously invited us into your thing and we wrecked it. Without everyone's involvement, without Tirost and me and easily a dozen other people, it wouldn't have been a thing worth talking about at all. It's outrageous and pretentious and entitled to suggest you were owed something more than that.
So in conclusion, after much consideration, after having spent hours talking to you, I think I'm out
Mazrian
Mazrian
After taking some time to process this thread and your complaints, I think the conclusion I've come to is I'm a lot less keen about doing scripted eventing with you.
I would never tell you how to feel about the event. Your feelings about it are totally valid given your expectations about what was supposed to happen and how you think people should have acted toward you. I feel bad that you're so frustrated and upset, because I had a good time and my intention was never that anyone have a bad time. I think I've tried to brainstorm ways that things could be better next time and we talked about a lot of those ideas in Discord and a little bit on the forums.
But when I look at my feelings about the event and the aftermath, and think about the things you've said and the accusations you've made toward me and the "good" team, my overwhelming reaction is that I have zero desire to be responsible for meeting your expectations. Expectations that no one voiced to me in the lead up to the finale when I could have adjusted to them, and that on reflection I might not have agreed to cleave to had anybody asked because I have my ideas about how things should be done and they're as valid as yours, and as valid as anyone's. If the price of eventing with you is that I have to submit to your blame and your temper when things don't go the way you'd like then I would just as soon skip it and RP with people who are willing to discuss and make changes moving forward without getting personally hurt if it's not all done their way.
On even further reflection, our side did as much or even more to develop this event and make it good as you did. We wrangled the people, had the arguments, fought and schemed amongst ourselves, and provided a context and impact you couldn't have had RPing within your group. How dare you suggest that you graciously invited us into your thing and we wrecked it. Without everyone's involvement, without Tirost and me and easily a dozen other people, it wouldn't have been a thing worth talking about at all. It's outrageous and pretentious and entitled to suggest you were owed something more than that.
So in conclusion, after much consideration, after having spent hours talking to you, I think I'm out
Mazrian
Mazrian
ZERODIVIDES
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/10/2018 07:16 PM CDT
>>We send risen to events and people kill them even THOUGH IC they are not suppose to know what they are.
Don't Empaths perceive Risen as undead? I'm pretty sure that's the case. Speaking as someone who played a pretty PvP heavy Empath for a while, perceive health is a great situational awareness tool, so noticing an undead just chilling in the area would not be a stretch for any Empath who even marginally alert.
--
Don't Empaths perceive Risen as undead? I'm pretty sure that's the case. Speaking as someone who played a pretty PvP heavy Empath for a while, perceive health is a great situational awareness tool, so noticing an undead just chilling in the area would not be a stretch for any Empath who even marginally alert.
--
JULIAN
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/10/2018 07:17 PM CDT
>>Don't Empaths perceive Risen as undead? I'm pretty sure that's the case. Speaking as someone who played a pretty PvP heavy Empath for a while, perceive health is a great situational awareness tool, so noticing an undead just chilling in the area would not be a stretch for any Empath who even marginally alert.<<
Yeah, Risen will read as undead to an Empath who perceives health. Sometimes the answer to "how did they catch on?" is just that you weren't as stealth as you thought you were.
Mazrian
Yeah, Risen will read as undead to an Empath who perceives health. Sometimes the answer to "how did they catch on?" is just that you weren't as stealth as you thought you were.
Mazrian
BENNETTJ13
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/10/2018 07:18 PM CDT
Next time there should be a big OOC meeting before hand to ensure that no one acts in character with the goal of stopping the big dark ritual. Then, all 15 or whatever people on team bad gets ample time to monologue before doing the good vs bad thing. There should always be mustache twisting when available, especially when summoning demons.
You seem super upset. And it’s understandable, but mistakes happen. The unexpected happens. It’s RP. You flow with it. I don’t know how much RP experience you have outside of DR, but RP is a living thing. It is always changing. As someone who has RP’d for years outside of DR, and ran many many games of my own, I can tell you that nothing ever goes to plan. And generally speaking the stuff that doesn’t is usually the best content. The human element has a wonderfully awful way of mucking up everything. But it’s how you recover that matters. (Fools! Why do you think we allowed ourselves to die so easily?! We only fed the demon! Thanks to your energies expended in the cavern there was enough residual magic to taint a rift between the planes!) You do you.
It’s pretty much been acknowledged that things could have been done better, you just want to keep digging in for some reason. If you are going to take it so hard, perhaps take a step back and assess your feelings on this. If you want people to do better or be better, berating them and complaining isn’t the way to do it.
It’s silly to think that you are going to get 40 people (some of whom were involved from the start, some whom literally showed up minutes before we left) on the same page for a situation like that.
You want to talk about working outside your norm? You were the only one that made concessions? There were advanced scouting parties done and no stealth element allowed to the attack. There’s plenty of things that could have/should have/would have been done differently in an actual full blown IC conflict. The area could have been consecrated, bannered, silenced, blown up, etc. but that wouldn’t have been much fun at all. If you wanted to monologue, there’s gweths, there’s having an alt Paladin cast banner and log out, there’s any number of things that could have been done differently. Sometimes things need handwaved for RP to work. I’m sorry you had such a bad time. I enjoyed most the events up to the finale myself.
Could things have been done differently? Sure. But they weren’t. So we control what we can control and we move forward. That’s how progress is made. Next time people try harder. If that’s not good enough for you. I don’t know what to tell you.
Monster Elec
Community first. Guild always.
You seem super upset. And it’s understandable, but mistakes happen. The unexpected happens. It’s RP. You flow with it. I don’t know how much RP experience you have outside of DR, but RP is a living thing. It is always changing. As someone who has RP’d for years outside of DR, and ran many many games of my own, I can tell you that nothing ever goes to plan. And generally speaking the stuff that doesn’t is usually the best content. The human element has a wonderfully awful way of mucking up everything. But it’s how you recover that matters. (Fools! Why do you think we allowed ourselves to die so easily?! We only fed the demon! Thanks to your energies expended in the cavern there was enough residual magic to taint a rift between the planes!) You do you.
It’s pretty much been acknowledged that things could have been done better, you just want to keep digging in for some reason. If you are going to take it so hard, perhaps take a step back and assess your feelings on this. If you want people to do better or be better, berating them and complaining isn’t the way to do it.
It’s silly to think that you are going to get 40 people (some of whom were involved from the start, some whom literally showed up minutes before we left) on the same page for a situation like that.
You want to talk about working outside your norm? You were the only one that made concessions? There were advanced scouting parties done and no stealth element allowed to the attack. There’s plenty of things that could have/should have/would have been done differently in an actual full blown IC conflict. The area could have been consecrated, bannered, silenced, blown up, etc. but that wouldn’t have been much fun at all. If you wanted to monologue, there’s gweths, there’s having an alt Paladin cast banner and log out, there’s any number of things that could have been done differently. Sometimes things need handwaved for RP to work. I’m sorry you had such a bad time. I enjoyed most the events up to the finale myself.
Could things have been done differently? Sure. But they weren’t. So we control what we can control and we move forward. That’s how progress is made. Next time people try harder. If that’s not good enough for you. I don’t know what to tell you.
Monster Elec
Community first. Guild always.
PURHEART
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/10/2018 08:00 PM CDT
Again, I had written a long post but I think I'm gonna just say this.. I agree with Mazrians player, if OMEGANECRO's character Totenus is involved anymore I'm also out.
I hope he doesnt speak for anyone else than him, as the lil I was involved, even as a third party observer, I had fun. It was a very good event & definitely a learning experience for me at least.
Sometimes things dont go by the script you have in your head, you have to flow with it, learn from it. I doubt even the GMs have some of their stuff go exactly as they planned it. I know from other things, that when you have more than 2 people involved, it doesnt go exactly according to the script I had in mind. And thats okay.
I'm sure he will pick apart my posts again, say I was too blame when I've admitted I wasnt there all the time, I know he isnt referring to my characters exactly but I tired of being railed so much against.
I'm done here, I'll say that obviously OMEGANECRO & I am going to disagree on this no matter what.
Thank you anyways to all involved, it was a very good experience, very interesting to me & I hope to observe more in the future from other players. See, we dont always need a GM to have a great event like this. :)
And a very big thank you to the ones who "planned" this, you know have my characters looking very squinty eyed at anyone they run across. :)
I hope he doesnt speak for anyone else than him, as the lil I was involved, even as a third party observer, I had fun. It was a very good event & definitely a learning experience for me at least.
Sometimes things dont go by the script you have in your head, you have to flow with it, learn from it. I doubt even the GMs have some of their stuff go exactly as they planned it. I know from other things, that when you have more than 2 people involved, it doesnt go exactly according to the script I had in mind. And thats okay.
I'm sure he will pick apart my posts again, say I was too blame when I've admitted I wasnt there all the time, I know he isnt referring to my characters exactly but I tired of being railed so much against.
I'm done here, I'll say that obviously OMEGANECRO & I am going to disagree on this no matter what.
Thank you anyways to all involved, it was a very good experience, very interesting to me & I hope to observe more in the future from other players. See, we dont always need a GM to have a great event like this. :)
And a very big thank you to the ones who "planned" this, you know have my characters looking very squinty eyed at anyone they run across. :)
OMEGANECRO
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/10/2018 09:58 PM CDT
I want to say I'm sorry for handling this angrily.
That was not my intention and it came off wrong.
I agree with Mazrian that the leading up events were amazing.
I also agree that without everyone none of this would happen.
I came here for a validation that the night went wrong and we should address it and move forward and sadly let my anger get caught up to it.
I honestly just want some good to honest good rp.
However we reach that goal I'd be happy to work towards.
I'm sorry if my complaint in the rp hurt anyone feelings that I did not mean to do.
I simply want the best we can give and work towards being better as a whole.
PURHEART
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/10/2018 11:38 PM CDT
OMEGANECRO,
I cant & wont speak for anyone else. & I know you & I discussed this further off the boards. But I want to publically say thank you for this.
I know the feelings of letting ones emotions catch up & spilling all over the boards, its why I didnt post the things I was going too. I also never felt you were singling me out even if you did pick apart my posts (grin).
I expected more than walking in, bam, attack, over quickly for team necro, & walk out. I wasnt involved with any of it, I just wanted as the player to see how it would end.
I think if we all work together & learn from this, another player event can come to a conclusion all sides can be happier with. It was a very good event no matter what, both sides put in a lot of work & I'd be willing to bet the "planners" are glad this part is over with.
I'd like to say one thing.. will we ever learn about the pieces & if they are part of Vorclafs circlet? (grin)
Thank you to all involved, it was a fun time for my characters to observe & now watch over their shoulders. (chuckles)
I cant & wont speak for anyone else. & I know you & I discussed this further off the boards. But I want to publically say thank you for this.
I know the feelings of letting ones emotions catch up & spilling all over the boards, its why I didnt post the things I was going too. I also never felt you were singling me out even if you did pick apart my posts (grin).
I expected more than walking in, bam, attack, over quickly for team necro, & walk out. I wasnt involved with any of it, I just wanted as the player to see how it would end.
I think if we all work together & learn from this, another player event can come to a conclusion all sides can be happier with. It was a very good event no matter what, both sides put in a lot of work & I'd be willing to bet the "planners" are glad this part is over with.
I'd like to say one thing.. will we ever learn about the pieces & if they are part of Vorclafs circlet? (grin)
Thank you to all involved, it was a fun time for my characters to observe & now watch over their shoulders. (chuckles)
FUTILITY
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/11/2018 04:02 AM CDT
I'm getting the feeling that playing a necromancer and being involved in the big role-playing events surrounding them simply may not be for you.
Which is fine, not everything is going to be a good fit for everyone.
I'll certainly reconsider engaging with you in role-playing, as I'm sure many others will now, simply because I'm not sure your expectations are going to be reasonable and there's little point in entering into an event where one side is guaranteed to be disappointed. You know, exactly how the old Team Bad invasions of Therengia used to go down.
Which is fine, not everything is going to be a good fit for everyone.
I'll certainly reconsider engaging with you in role-playing, as I'm sure many others will now, simply because I'm not sure your expectations are going to be reasonable and there's little point in entering into an event where one side is guaranteed to be disappointed. You know, exactly how the old Team Bad invasions of Therengia used to go down.
ZSBABYDOLL92
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/11/2018 09:33 AM CDT
I think this is all getting a little out of hand by saying "Oh I won't RP with you anymore", a wee bit dramatic and childish. Omeganecro had a valid point honestly, yes he got a little heated but that is the nature of this game really. Everyone feels passionately about their character and always wants to feel like they are getting the most out of their experience. From what I read he was saying that he knew the necros were going to get smashed and that good was going to prevail and all that but he expected dialogue (so many people tried to act like he was complaining about the PVP aspect). Which I mean it is a text game, that isn't too much to ask for. Heck, I went as a low level character to the chamber because I expected RP to happen and was willing to die to see it. To be fair the good guys way outnumbered the bad guys, they didn't need to go in guns blazing in order to win. It would have been nice if they said a few things first - even if it was just asking about the hostage or telling them "it's over!" yada yada. What happened was kind of the good guys using the bad guys (who didn't have to include the other side in this RP) as a whipping post and calling it a day. Why not just say "hey, let's learn from this?" instead of getting all defensive and telling him he is wrong and trying to exclude him from future RP events? DR is a small community and we all have to work together to make the game thrive, hug it out guys.
OMEGANECRO
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/11/2018 09:54 AM CDT
@FUTILITY
I lost my cool which I did apologize for. The point I was trying to make still stands. I understand your inclination to say hey if you cant handle these situations well dont be involved in big rp.
I mean lets be fair here. From every event I've attended. From TG events to the moon mage vision events where I've been kicked out, killed without warning, or anything else I havent complained. Its part of being a necromancer. We as a community setup event in hopes of bring forth a community not dependent on GM interaction to make rp happen.
Tirost and Nefis did an amazing job setting up the event.
Everyone else did an amazing job being part of the event.
Telling me that an expectation of rp is unreasonable is harsh.
This isnt a post about a good fit for everyone.
This isnt a post that is complaining about the amount of rp had was unfair.
This is simply a post saying if you want to deal with team bad guys you need to include us in rp or we just wont work with you. If you dont want to thats fine and thats your decision.
Mazrian has some great ideas on how to better handle it.
Nefis has some great ideas on how to better handle it.
I have some ideas as well, and moving forward I hope we as a community will grow and learn from it.
FUTILITY
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/11/2018 02:49 PM CDT
>>Telling me that an expectation of rp is unreasonable is harsh.
This isn't what I said. I completely agreed with your complaint about the lack of interaction at the beginning of the fight and I even suggested we resort to an OOC solution in future events. But you've continued to carry on about this like we could possibly do anything about this at this juncture. I'm certainly filing this under "lesson learned" and if my Paladin were still active I'd volunteer to come out and Banner these rooms before events so talking can happen.
My impression is that your expectations on RP may be unreasonable because you opted to view the result of several months of build-up through the lens of a single incident in which many people were notably excited about the prospect of stopping nefarious sorts in the middle of a truly awful thing. Not unlike the recent event with Maelshyve which was, to be completely blunt, pretty much pandemonium once the fighting kicked off.
If you can't understand why people would be understandably twitchy in that sort of situation I honestly don't know what to say. If I had a suggestion for Mazrian and Tirost for these sorts of things going forward it might be to try to make the build-up events as broad as possible but keep the confrontations limited and relatively balanced, sort of like tourney team selection, so there's a chance of outcomes that are more interesting than "and then Team Good smote them duly and righteously, and Chadatru smiled. Allegedly."
If I had been thinking about the trigger happiness of Team Good at all last on Saturday I might have suggested the Banner beforehand, but I'm genuinely not used to seeing this sort of behavior from Team Good.
This isn't what I said. I completely agreed with your complaint about the lack of interaction at the beginning of the fight and I even suggested we resort to an OOC solution in future events. But you've continued to carry on about this like we could possibly do anything about this at this juncture. I'm certainly filing this under "lesson learned" and if my Paladin were still active I'd volunteer to come out and Banner these rooms before events so talking can happen.
My impression is that your expectations on RP may be unreasonable because you opted to view the result of several months of build-up through the lens of a single incident in which many people were notably excited about the prospect of stopping nefarious sorts in the middle of a truly awful thing. Not unlike the recent event with Maelshyve which was, to be completely blunt, pretty much pandemonium once the fighting kicked off.
If you can't understand why people would be understandably twitchy in that sort of situation I honestly don't know what to say. If I had a suggestion for Mazrian and Tirost for these sorts of things going forward it might be to try to make the build-up events as broad as possible but keep the confrontations limited and relatively balanced, sort of like tourney team selection, so there's a chance of outcomes that are more interesting than "and then Team Good smote them duly and righteously, and Chadatru smiled. Allegedly."
If I had been thinking about the trigger happiness of Team Good at all last on Saturday I might have suggested the Banner beforehand, but I'm genuinely not used to seeing this sort of behavior from Team Good.
ANARCHIE
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/11/2018 03:43 PM CDT
>>If I had been thinking about the trigger happiness of Team Good at all last on Saturday I might have suggested the Banner beforehand, but I'm genuinely not used to seeing this sort of behavior from Team Good.
I think this statement sums up the entire experience from both sides. We're used to the pontificating, the grandstanding, and the monologuing from 'Team Good Guy' and have likely conditioned ourselves to expect it at this point. When there wasnt any sort of 'I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.' style lecture during the final confrontation I think everyone from 'Team Bad Guy' sorta just went 'wait, did that just happen?' and had some unfortunate knee-jerk reactions.
I wont speak for the rest of Team Bad Guy but I can say that I'll continue to play the heel, dodge the direct accusations and questioning, and generally try to be a jovial psychopath in the most IC way possible if you guys promise to look down from your high horse from time to time and tell my character just how terrible his life choices are PRIOR to shoving a sword through his chest.
Thanks again for the storyline and I'm personally looking forward to the next chapter, whatever it may be.
-Nsar
TK-421
Re: Fate of the Crown
09/11/2018 05:18 PM CDT
Another Team Bad Guy.
>>I think everyone from 'Team Bad Guy' sorta just went 'wait, did that just happen?' and had some unfortunate knee-jerk reactions.
This.
I also want to say thank you to everyone that organized the whole storyline. I'm hoping to be able to contribute more next time, other than some pregame meetings and just kinda exploding at the end.
- I
>>I think everyone from 'Team Bad Guy' sorta just went 'wait, did that just happen?' and had some unfortunate knee-jerk reactions.
This.
I also want to say thank you to everyone that organized the whole storyline. I'm hoping to be able to contribute more next time, other than some pregame meetings and just kinda exploding at the end.
- I
