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OK I understand people wanting to play bad guys or worshipers of some evil God and that's ok. I have met some awesome RPers in the past who pull it off quite well, and yeah they were still mean and would start fights now and then. But as someone who's had to deal with threats to her Empath for the last 4 days, when is enough enough? I don't want to squash anyones fun or anything, But I get people who threaten to kill me because my HORSE sees them or their friend hide, or people who routinely harass people including empaths such as me, in a common gathering place, and sometimes even kill (new study on policy on MY part pending, I need to relearn consent). I've even been followed once or twice.
Is it report worthy when I have someone threatening me and following me when I try to avoid a potentially hazardous situation?
ROWAN-K1
DIVINEWIND
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 08:12 AM CDT
Most folks here will probably tell you, "Yes, its report worthy."
However, I have a better solution. Find me in game. Explain to me what happened and who is doing it. Then, together, we can go have a little talk with whoever is giving you trouble.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
However, I have a better solution. Find me in game. Explain to me what happened and who is doing it. Then, together, we can go have a little talk with whoever is giving you trouble.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
ROWAN-K1
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 04:22 PM CDT
Yaaay! Thank you Galren, though I don't wanna get you into something that might get you killed.
The lips draw words and hands find actions, still there is more within one heart. Into the silence will you answer? Before the Chaos will you come?
....Stand up when noone else is willing..
~Cruxshadows: Sophia
The lips draw words and hands find actions, still there is more within one heart. Into the silence will you answer? Before the Chaos will you come?
....Stand up when noone else is willing..
~Cruxshadows: Sophia
DULCINIA
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 08:07 PM CDT
I wouldn't worry about Galren. <3 Galren.
~Dulcinia
[Mvorn] "Dulcinia is the only woman I would allow myself to cheat on my wife with, she's dreamy"
[Mvorn] "Sometimes I dress Yuki up like you and have her yell at me, it's so hot"
~Dulcinia
[Mvorn] "Dulcinia is the only woman I would allow myself to cheat on my wife with, she's dreamy"
[Mvorn] "Sometimes I dress Yuki up like you and have her yell at me, it's so hot"
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 08:14 PM CDT
This is a lesson: There is almost always a better, more fun IC solution.
Rev. Reene
(10:43:46 PM) Xelten: YOU PLAY A TEXT BASED RPG MAN, YOU ARE NOT COOL, PUT THE HAT THE RIGHT WAY
Rev. Reene
(10:43:46 PM) Xelten: YOU PLAY A TEXT BASED RPG MAN, YOU ARE NOT COOL, PUT THE HAT THE RIGHT WAY
YAMCER
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 10:07 PM CDT
Not sure, how getting someone to do your dirty work on the boards.. is an "In Character" method to be praised over the merits of reporting someone if they are truly harassing a player?
rationalize it all you want i guess but frankly it is against current policy to attack with out consent on the behalf of someone who isn't your bonded spouse before the transgressions happened. Now, if you going to have said protector get consent by griefing the transgressor than you just as bad has them, two wrongs don't make a right.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
rationalize it all you want i guess but frankly it is against current policy to attack with out consent on the behalf of someone who isn't your bonded spouse before the transgressions happened. Now, if you going to have said protector get consent by griefing the transgressor than you just as bad has them, two wrongs don't make a right.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 10:14 PM CDT
>> Not sure, how getting someone to do your dirty work on the boards.. is an "In Character" method to be praised over the merits of reporting someone if they are truly harassing a player?
He said find him in game to arrange something, and character != player.
>> rationalize it all you want i guess but frankly it is against current policy to attack with out consent on the behalf of someone who isn't your bonded spouse before the transgressions happened.
No GM is going to take action against anyone if no one reports.. If it gets worked out OOCly beforehand then everything is cool and froody.
You, however, are not cool and froody. We know how you love to cry about consent both in game and out, Yamcer. If you listen hard enough I bet you can hear the sound of no one caring.
Rev. Reene
(10:43:46 PM) Xelten: YOU PLAY A TEXT BASED RPG MAN, YOU ARE NOT COOL, PUT THE HAT THE RIGHT WAY
He said find him in game to arrange something, and character != player.
>> rationalize it all you want i guess but frankly it is against current policy to attack with out consent on the behalf of someone who isn't your bonded spouse before the transgressions happened.
No GM is going to take action against anyone if no one reports.. If it gets worked out OOCly beforehand then everything is cool and froody.
You, however, are not cool and froody. We know how you love to cry about consent both in game and out, Yamcer. If you listen hard enough I bet you can hear the sound of no one caring.
Rev. Reene
(10:43:46 PM) Xelten: YOU PLAY A TEXT BASED RPG MAN, YOU ARE NOT COOL, PUT THE HAT THE RIGHT WAY
DIVINEWIND
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 10:20 PM CDT
We get it Yamcer, your solution to everything is to just report.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Exactly when IS enough? ::NUDGE::
09/03/2007 10:26 PM CDT
Take the conflicts to the appropriate folder.
Annwyl
Senior Board Monitor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing Senior Board Monitor DR-Annwyl@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor DR-Cecco@play.net.
YAMCER
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 10:57 PM CDT
<<No GM is going to take action against anyone if no one reports.. If it gets worked out OOCly beforehand then everything is cool and froody.>>
if you read what you quoted...
I said:
>> rationalize it all you want i guess but frankly it is against current policy to attack with out consent on the behalf of someone who isn't your bonded spouse before the transgressions happened.
Yes, if you walk up and in IM's or in OOC whispers or some other manor ask for and get consent to attack, no have been granted consent and can attack. Consent in it hear t is someone say ,"yes, that is fine." It is prudent for the attacker to make sure their roleplay doesn't interfere with another's. it isn't the other's non-denial that grants consent.
and unconsented attack is always against policy. If it isn't reported means it isn't punished.. not that it is ok.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
if you read what you quoted...
I said:
>> rationalize it all you want i guess but frankly it is against current policy to attack with out consent on the behalf of someone who isn't your bonded spouse before the transgressions happened.
Yes, if you walk up and in IM's or in OOC whispers or some other manor ask for and get consent to attack, no have been granted consent and can attack. Consent in it hear t is someone say ,"yes, that is fine." It is prudent for the attacker to make sure their roleplay doesn't interfere with another's. it isn't the other's non-denial that grants consent.
and unconsented attack is always against policy. If it isn't reported means it isn't punished.. not that it is ok.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
MUGUMBO
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 11:09 PM CDT
<<Not sure, how getting someone to do your dirty work on the boards.. is an "In Character" method to be praised over the merits of reporting someone if they are truly harassing a player?
If I railroaded somebody who couldn't fight me directly, I would expect them to try to strike back at me through other means, be it trying to trap me, rob me, telling their friends not to deal with me, hiring someone like Galren to put his throwing hammer through several of my orifices, heck, maybe going to some sort of IC authorities. Aren't there militias meant to uphold the law in every city? Don't the Paladins stand for justice and defending those who can't defend themselves (I know one male Paladin offered me the blessings of Chadatru and curtsied to me after I called him stupid, his Prydaen hunting partner a screeching housecat, and slapped him in the face, but surely they can't all be that mush-brained.) Isn't the current High Priestess of the Clerics guild a follower of Rutilor?
Doesn't that sound more enjoyable than ">report Xplayer keeps killing me make him stop!" to you?
If I railroaded somebody who couldn't fight me directly, I would expect them to try to strike back at me through other means, be it trying to trap me, rob me, telling their friends not to deal with me, hiring someone like Galren to put his throwing hammer through several of my orifices, heck, maybe going to some sort of IC authorities. Aren't there militias meant to uphold the law in every city? Don't the Paladins stand for justice and defending those who can't defend themselves (I know one male Paladin offered me the blessings of Chadatru and curtsied to me after I called him stupid, his Prydaen hunting partner a screeching housecat, and slapped him in the face, but surely they can't all be that mush-brained.) Isn't the current High Priestess of the Clerics guild a follower of Rutilor?
Doesn't that sound more enjoyable than ">report Xplayer keeps killing me make him stop!" to you?
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 11:13 PM CDT
>> and unconsented attack is always against policy. If it isn't reported means it isn't punished.. not that it is ok.
If no one complains it isn't against policy. Consent is implied.
Rev. Reene
(10:43:46 PM) Xelten: YOU PLAY A TEXT BASED RPG MAN, YOU ARE NOT COOL, PUT THE HAT THE RIGHT WAY
If no one complains it isn't against policy. Consent is implied.
Rev. Reene
(10:43:46 PM) Xelten: YOU PLAY A TEXT BASED RPG MAN, YOU ARE NOT COOL, PUT THE HAT THE RIGHT WAY
YAMCER
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/03/2007 11:24 PM CDT
<<If no one complains it isn't against policy. Consent is implied.>>
this is flat out wrong
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
this is flat out wrong
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
DIVINEWIND
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/04/2007 05:56 AM CDT
>>this is flat out wrong
Nope.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
Nope.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
MIKEM1
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/04/2007 06:32 AM CDT
Only the policy violator is responsible for a policy violation. Ones actions are either within policy yes, or they are within policy no. Whether the victim of a policy violation chooses to report or to absolve the policy breaker by RETROACTIVELY granting consent irrelevant. Should they choose to report it isn't the report that makes it a policy violation.
Let's not engage in sophism designed to shift blame to the victim.
Let's not engage in sophism designed to shift blame to the victim.
DIVINEWIND
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/04/2007 08:20 AM CDT
Sorry MIKEM1 - policy/consent isn't black and white.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
NEELD
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/04/2007 11:25 AM CDT
From my point of view you should always attempt to RP a situation. What Galren is offering is a method by which this person can RP this situation without getting a GM involved. I agree that this knowledge Galren gave this person is OOC, I also acknowledge and understand that many things our characters learn about this "game" is via OOC methods (i.e. what creature to hunt, what is the best weapon and so forth).
As a result, I see no issue with Galren opening an opportunity for this person to handle a situation IG rather than a report. Just my opinion.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
As a result, I see no issue with Galren opening an opportunity for this person to handle a situation IG rather than a report. Just my opinion.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
MIKEM1
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/04/2007 01:11 PM CDT
For the record, I too believe that an individual should play themselves out of any situation they play themselves into. I was disputing the notion that it's not a violation of policy until somebody reports.
If you attack Yamcer out of the blue because you don't like his posts in this thread, you've violated policy. If he chooses to retroactively grant consent by declining his option to report, it doesn't mean you didn't violate policy, it means he forgave you or chose to play along. Should he report though, it's not his report or him that turned your unconcented attack into a policy violation. It was the unconcented part that did that.
If you attack Yamcer out of the blue because you don't like his posts in this thread, you've violated policy. If he chooses to retroactively grant consent by declining his option to report, it doesn't mean you didn't violate policy, it means he forgave you or chose to play along. Should he report though, it's not his report or him that turned your unconcented attack into a policy violation. It was the unconcented part that did that.
DIVINEWIND
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/04/2007 01:26 PM CDT
Let me clarify something as well...
Just because I brought up the option for her to seek me out in game does not mean I'm just going to gun down whoever she says is picking on her without hesitation.
If this person chooses to seek me out they need to convince me to speak on their behalf. That's a task in and of itself.
Is it OOC for me to make the offer to help her? No more so than folks planning out some RP plot ahead of time. Only difference is, mine isn't set in stone and I won't cry if things don't go exactly as I'd like.
I also keep in mind that there are two sides to every story AND if any of you read my original post I never said I was going to attack or kill anyone. I merely said we'd go have a talk.
You're welcome to formulate opinions of me and my character based on how I choose to play but just remember, if you've reported me (Qyp), threatened to report me (Ophyus/Heel) or I know you would report me if we ever got into a conflict (Yamcer) then chances are your opinion doesn't mean much to me.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
Just because I brought up the option for her to seek me out in game does not mean I'm just going to gun down whoever she says is picking on her without hesitation.
If this person chooses to seek me out they need to convince me to speak on their behalf. That's a task in and of itself.
Is it OOC for me to make the offer to help her? No more so than folks planning out some RP plot ahead of time. Only difference is, mine isn't set in stone and I won't cry if things don't go exactly as I'd like.
I also keep in mind that there are two sides to every story AND if any of you read my original post I never said I was going to attack or kill anyone. I merely said we'd go have a talk.
You're welcome to formulate opinions of me and my character based on how I choose to play but just remember, if you've reported me (Qyp), threatened to report me (Ophyus/Heel) or I know you would report me if we ever got into a conflict (Yamcer) then chances are your opinion doesn't mean much to me.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
DIVINEWIND
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/04/2007 01:32 PM CDT
>>If you attack Yamcer out of the blue because you don't like his posts in this thread, you've violated policy.
I would agree wholeheartedly IF you could prove that I was motivated by my dislike of him on the boards. To assume that automatically was the reason for my attacking him is poor judgment on your part.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
I would agree wholeheartedly IF you could prove that I was motivated by my dislike of him on the boards. To assume that automatically was the reason for my attacking him is poor judgment on your part.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
ROWAN-K1
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/04/2007 02:14 PM CDT
>>> and unconsented attack is always against policy. If it isn't reported means it isn't punished.. not that it is ok.
If no one complains it isn't against policy. Consent is implied.<<<
I KINDA agree W/Yamcer that an unreported unconsented attack is STILL against policy, BUT since this is an RP based game if nothing is done than it is assumed that it wasn't a big enough problem with the player, and they found a way to RP around it. So while, unjust, it still goes unpunishedf & isn't followed.
However I do want to say this Yamcer... MY Empath can't DO any "dirty work" and I am just glad that someone is willing to give me a hand to see if it is RP-out-able instead of having to find a GM and go "WAAAHHHH".
I've said it before, I have RPed with evil people and some of them pull it off quite well, and there are also snerties who throw their weight around... I would like SOME notification as to if someone is one or the other, but since I don't get it, and since there is Roleplaying involved, I'd like to see if I can iron it out IC, and if not (wherin they prove their snert status by continuing to follow and threaten/harass me), then I'm gonna find a GM and go "waaarrgh! They are meeen to meeeee. I cannot make them pay so you do it for me" lol
Let truth and honor always guide you,
Let courage find the light within.
Stand up when no one else is willing, Act not in hatred or in spite.
Be to this world as a perfect knight, Even if it means your life.
If no one complains it isn't against policy. Consent is implied.<<<
I KINDA agree W/Yamcer that an unreported unconsented attack is STILL against policy, BUT since this is an RP based game if nothing is done than it is assumed that it wasn't a big enough problem with the player, and they found a way to RP around it. So while, unjust, it still goes unpunishedf & isn't followed.
However I do want to say this Yamcer... MY Empath can't DO any "dirty work" and I am just glad that someone is willing to give me a hand to see if it is RP-out-able instead of having to find a GM and go "WAAAHHHH".
I've said it before, I have RPed with evil people and some of them pull it off quite well, and there are also snerties who throw their weight around... I would like SOME notification as to if someone is one or the other, but since I don't get it, and since there is Roleplaying involved, I'd like to see if I can iron it out IC, and if not (wherin they prove their snert status by continuing to follow and threaten/harass me), then I'm gonna find a GM and go "waaarrgh! They are meeen to meeeee. I cannot make them pay so you do it for me" lol
Let truth and honor always guide you,
Let courage find the light within.
Stand up when no one else is willing, Act not in hatred or in spite.
Be to this world as a perfect knight, Even if it means your life.
MOSAIC3
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/04/2007 05:43 PM CDT
Just a thought...not all empaths are bonded (or want to be), NO empath can fight back (without shock). Reporting doesn't always solve the problem, as there's fine line between what is considered harrassment, and someone playing an evil character. Most don't cross that line, yet it is still just as annoying to the person they're after. If someone is willing to help the empath solve the problem in an IC fashion, GREAT! If that's a problem, it's up to a GM to decide.
As Lady Shantelle said, "Crossing doesn't need a theatre, the drama is in the streets."
As Lady Shantelle said, "Crossing doesn't need a theatre, the drama is in the streets."
MOSAIC3
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/04/2007 05:47 PM CDT
<Aren't there militias meant to uphold the law in every city?>
The militias are there, but that doesn't mean they're upholding anything.
As Lady Shantelle said, "Crossing doesn't need a theatre, the drama is in the streets."
The militias are there, but that doesn't mean they're upholding anything.
As Lady Shantelle said, "Crossing doesn't need a theatre, the drama is in the streets."
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Exactly when IS enough? ::Nudge::
09/05/2007 12:18 AM CDT
Gang,
Let's keep to discussing policy and leave the bickering out. Address the points of a post without making negative commentary on the posters.
If you simply must conflict, take it to the appropriate folder.
Annwyl
Senior Board Monitor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing Senior Board Monitor DR-Annwyl@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor DR-Cecco@play.net.
NEELD
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/05/2007 01:50 PM CDT
<<The militias are there, but that doesn't mean they're upholding anything.>>
I do not know a militia around that acts as a police force. Therengia has a long history of very good militias and their primary and only duty is to defend Therengia against invasions. I can not speak to other militias, but I suspect they are what we are, a military force not a police force.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
I do not know a militia around that acts as a police force. Therengia has a long history of very good militias and their primary and only duty is to defend Therengia against invasions. I can not speak to other militias, but I suspect they are what we are, a military force not a police force.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
ROWAN-K1
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/05/2007 06:23 PM CDT
I agree. They are meant for taking care of things like theft, murder, disturbance of the peace, and invasions.
BTW Madigan, I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY like your quote
~Kaialoren
The wings of the opal-eyed dragon toy shimmy up and down in a shaky imitation of flight as Kaialoren spins wildly about the area.
Kaialoren exclaims "I am the World Dragon! WAAARRR!"
a puff of smoke emits from the dragons nostrils
BTW Madigan, I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY like your quote
~Kaialoren
The wings of the opal-eyed dragon toy shimmy up and down in a shaky imitation of flight as Kaialoren spins wildly about the area.
Kaialoren exclaims "I am the World Dragon! WAAARRR!"
a puff of smoke emits from the dragons nostrils
NEELD
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/05/2007 10:08 PM CDT
<<BTW Madigan, I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY like your quote>>
Why thank you. Since I sign my forum posts with my character, I wanted something that is "Madigan'ish". Now, if only I was as good as my character. Alas, we all live our own fantasy in this wonderful little game we found.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
Why thank you. Since I sign my forum posts with my character, I wanted something that is "Madigan'ish". Now, if only I was as good as my character. Alas, we all live our own fantasy in this wonderful little game we found.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
BEEJAY19
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/05/2007 11:14 PM CDT
There's many grey areas involving the consent policy. It's not black and white.
Go murder someone. GMs can watch you do it all day long. If the person who was murdered doesn't report, then everything is fine.
Now go AFK script (not encouraging, just making a point). Go abuse a bug that gives you some sort of gain. It doesn't matter if someone reports you or not, if a GM catches you, you're in trouble.
AFK scripting and bug abuse are TRULY against policy.
Let's look at this from a very rigid scale.
GM Workaholic is watching me. Suddenly, Joe pops out of hiding and kills me. Now, if I don't report or assist on the matter, then GM Workaholic won't do anything. Does that mean I consented to the kill retroactively? Not necessarily. I consented to RP'ing out the kill, not the kill itself. Will Joe get a warning? Not unless I report.
However, if someone is AFK'ing it up, then there's no ifs, ands, or buts. They will get a warning. If they're not afk'ing it, then they won't get a warning. This is all provided if they're caught doing it, as well as proved to be doing it.
If someone is caught abusing a bug, they will get a warning or possible LO. If they are not abusing a bug then nothing will happen.
That's the difference between something that is black and white and something that isn't (consent).
Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
Go murder someone. GMs can watch you do it all day long. If the person who was murdered doesn't report, then everything is fine.
Now go AFK script (not encouraging, just making a point). Go abuse a bug that gives you some sort of gain. It doesn't matter if someone reports you or not, if a GM catches you, you're in trouble.
AFK scripting and bug abuse are TRULY against policy.
Let's look at this from a very rigid scale.
GM Workaholic is watching me. Suddenly, Joe pops out of hiding and kills me. Now, if I don't report or assist on the matter, then GM Workaholic won't do anything. Does that mean I consented to the kill retroactively? Not necessarily. I consented to RP'ing out the kill, not the kill itself. Will Joe get a warning? Not unless I report.
However, if someone is AFK'ing it up, then there's no ifs, ands, or buts. They will get a warning. If they're not afk'ing it, then they won't get a warning. This is all provided if they're caught doing it, as well as proved to be doing it.
If someone is caught abusing a bug, they will get a warning or possible LO. If they are not abusing a bug then nothing will happen.
That's the difference between something that is black and white and something that isn't (consent).
Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
LOCOCO
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/06/2007 08:25 AM CDT
<<Go murder someone. GMs can watch you do it all day long. If the person who was murdered doesn't report, then everything is fine.
Isnt/wasnt there some sort of kill timer/timeout thingy? Like no more than X number of kills per 6 hrs?
Im asking because i do remember a big barb doing a roar after rubbing figurines, and killing a whole bunch of folks.
Robo
A dust bunny furtively tugs a label from Niteshiver's clothing that reads, "Closet Conservative".
Isnt/wasnt there some sort of kill timer/timeout thingy? Like no more than X number of kills per 6 hrs?
Im asking because i do remember a big barb doing a roar after rubbing figurines, and killing a whole bunch of folks.
Robo
A dust bunny furtively tugs a label from Niteshiver's clothing that reads, "Closet Conservative".
YAMCER
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/06/2007 09:17 AM CDT
<<Go murder someone. GMs can watch you do it all day long. If the person who was murdered doesn't report, then everything is fine.>>
go do that in rats or some other novice hunting area where people who don't know how to use report hang out and see what happens.
go kill an AFK scripter with a GM watching and see what happens.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
go do that in rats or some other novice hunting area where people who don't know how to use report hang out and see what happens.
go kill an AFK scripter with a GM watching and see what happens.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
BEEJAY19
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/06/2007 10:34 AM CDT
>>Isnt/wasnt there some sort of kill timer/timeout thingy? Like no more than X number of kills per 6 hrs?
Yeah, but that's only to prevent someone from going on mad killing rampages. People have done this right before they were gonna quit DR.
5 kills within 1 hour will get you sent to the room. 10 kills in one day will do the same, or something like that.
Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
Yeah, but that's only to prevent someone from going on mad killing rampages. People have done this right before they were gonna quit DR.
5 kills within 1 hour will get you sent to the room. 10 kills in one day will do the same, or something like that.
Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
BEEJAY19
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/06/2007 10:37 AM CDT
>>go do that in rats or some other novice hunting area where people who don't know how to use report hang out and see what happens.
That's only because GMs are strict when it comes to novice areas. You're further proving that the consent policy isn't all black and white.
>>go kill an AFK scripter with a GM watching and see what happens.
There is also a reason for this. Read my above statement. Thanks, Yamcer.
Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
That's only because GMs are strict when it comes to novice areas. You're further proving that the consent policy isn't all black and white.
>>go kill an AFK scripter with a GM watching and see what happens.
There is also a reason for this. Read my above statement. Thanks, Yamcer.
Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
PRAXIS
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/06/2007 11:54 AM CDT
>Go murder someone. GMs can watch you do it all day long. If the person who was murdered doesn't report, then everything is fine.
From personal experience, this is untrue, or has been untrue in the past. I was provided a very direct and informational SEND, complete with the repercussions I was exposing myself to prior to carrying out my plan to off someone. The GMs were watching my whisper/say discussions, and clearly intervened.
-THE Noob
Holy father - holy ghost
Who's the one who hurts you most
Rock the cradle when you cry
Scream another lullaby
From personal experience, this is untrue, or has been untrue in the past. I was provided a very direct and informational SEND, complete with the repercussions I was exposing myself to prior to carrying out my plan to off someone. The GMs were watching my whisper/say discussions, and clearly intervened.
-THE Noob
Holy father - holy ghost
Who's the one who hurts you most
Rock the cradle when you cry
Scream another lullaby
YAMCER
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/06/2007 11:55 AM CDT
<<That's only because GMs are strict when it comes to novice areas.>>
strict on what?
strict on policy
killing without consent is against policy, period.
they gray area comes from when and how consent is given.
does "not reporting" give consent, i say no, you say yes.
killing with out consent still is against policy.
and the burden is on the evil person to make sure they have consent.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
strict on what?
strict on policy
killing without consent is against policy, period.
they gray area comes from when and how consent is given.
does "not reporting" give consent, i say no, you say yes.
killing with out consent still is against policy.
and the burden is on the evil person to make sure they have consent.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
BEEJAY19
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/06/2007 12:28 PM CDT
Yamcer,
It is known that GMs are very strict when it comes to killing their new customers.
Going by your statements, something obviously isn't connecting.
I've attacked, been attacked unconsented, WHILE a GM was indeed present. How do I know this? Because when it got out of hand and someone finally reported, the GM said he was watching the ENTIRE time.
Now, IF: GMs are strict on the consent policy
AND: killing with out consent still is against policy.
Then WHY: Did we not receive warnings?
Explain that for me, buddy.
My whole point is that it's all situational. It is NOT black and white. That's why I didn't reply to Praxis' situation because again, there are tons of grey areas. Sometimes they intervene, sometimes they don't.
Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
It is known that GMs are very strict when it comes to killing their new customers.
Going by your statements, something obviously isn't connecting.
I've attacked, been attacked unconsented, WHILE a GM was indeed present. How do I know this? Because when it got out of hand and someone finally reported, the GM said he was watching the ENTIRE time.
Now, IF: GMs are strict on the consent policy
AND: killing with out consent still is against policy.
Then WHY: Did we not receive warnings?
Explain that for me, buddy.
My whole point is that it's all situational. It is NOT black and white. That's why I didn't reply to Praxis' situation because again, there are tons of grey areas. Sometimes they intervene, sometimes they don't.
Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
DIVINEWIND
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/06/2007 12:49 PM CDT
Yamcer is going to believe what he wants to believe. Al the proof in the world that consent is made up of shades of gray will not convince him.
Just leave the little reporter to his delusions.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
Just leave the little reporter to his delusions.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Exactly when IS enough? ::Nudge::
09/06/2007 02:48 PM CDT
You're going around in circles with this, agree to disagree on some points and move forward or let's wrap this one up.
Enough with the personal digs at each other, this is a policy discussion folder, not conflicts. Take it there if you really must continue. Further posts of the nature will be removed.
Annwyl
Senior Board Monitor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing Senior Board Monitor DR-Annwyl@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor DR-Cecco@play.net.
MIKEM1
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/06/2007 03:04 PM CDT
Clearly there are 'shades of gray' in the interpretation and understanding of consent policy or so many long term players wouldn't see it so differently. Of course, some folk read it from the 'under what circumstances am I allowed to attack' perspective, others focus on what circumstances forbid an attack.
For example, some see a line in policy that says you can attack someone you are conflicting with if they prep a spell and take that to mean that if someone preps a spell after they catch you stealing you can hit them cause you have reason to believe they are about to attack you. Others focus on the requirement that an actual conflict is necessary and note that you can't bring somebody else into a conflict simply by stealing from them ... they have to proactively indicate that they are conflicting with you. But folks tend to filter policy through their desires and so gray areas in policy understanding are created.
As a good rule of thumb, since consent policy is designed to prevent unwanted attacks assume any attack is against policy unless the policy text is unequivocal in granting permission in a given circumstance. Err on the side of restraint and gray areas usually disappear.
At least, that's my take on it.
For example, some see a line in policy that says you can attack someone you are conflicting with if they prep a spell and take that to mean that if someone preps a spell after they catch you stealing you can hit them cause you have reason to believe they are about to attack you. Others focus on the requirement that an actual conflict is necessary and note that you can't bring somebody else into a conflict simply by stealing from them ... they have to proactively indicate that they are conflicting with you. But folks tend to filter policy through their desires and so gray areas in policy understanding are created.
As a good rule of thumb, since consent policy is designed to prevent unwanted attacks assume any attack is against policy unless the policy text is unequivocal in granting permission in a given circumstance. Err on the side of restraint and gray areas usually disappear.
At least, that's my take on it.
RX4PAIN
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/07/2007 11:18 AM CDT
<<As a good rule of thumb, since consent policy is designed to prevent unwanted attacks assume any attack is against policy unless the policy text is unequivocal in granting permission in a given circumstance. Err on the side of restraint and gray areas usually disappear.
<<At least, that's my take on it.
I have my own policies with regards to consent. I have disagreed with GM rulings before so I have ceased leaving my fate in regards to PVP policy to interpretation.
My new self-imposed rules of PVP are that I will usually never attack a person first. Initiating attacks is an easy way to end up on the wrong side of policy. I play it safe and train my defenses as high as I possibly can. That way, if someone truly wants to engage in PVP combat with me, they can initiate it with an attack. If I survive that attack, well, they better be ready to play ball.
Of course after failing attacks 95% of players will run and hide in the nearest safe room. Some will even report when you kill them back. Such is life in Elanthia.
<<At least, that's my take on it.
I have my own policies with regards to consent. I have disagreed with GM rulings before so I have ceased leaving my fate in regards to PVP policy to interpretation.
My new self-imposed rules of PVP are that I will usually never attack a person first. Initiating attacks is an easy way to end up on the wrong side of policy. I play it safe and train my defenses as high as I possibly can. That way, if someone truly wants to engage in PVP combat with me, they can initiate it with an attack. If I survive that attack, well, they better be ready to play ball.
Of course after failing attacks 95% of players will run and hide in the nearest safe room. Some will even report when you kill them back. Such is life in Elanthia.
ZAIRIUS
Re: Exactly when IS enough?
09/10/2007 11:02 PM CDT
>My new self-imposed rules of PVP are that I will usually never attack a person first. Initiating attacks is an easy way to end up on the wrong side of policy. I play it safe and train my defenses as high as I possibly can. That way, if someone truly wants to engage in PVP combat with me, they can initiate it with an attack. If I survive that attack, well, they better be ready to play ball.
Try the stance attack 0; whiff an attack method. Most policy types will actually attack back if they think you are easy to kill.
The Prydaen word for Woman is Yif.
That explains a lot.
Lots more stuff coming 'Soon'!
http://www.zairius.com
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
Try the stance attack 0; whiff an attack method. Most policy types will actually attack back if they think you are easy to kill.
The Prydaen word for Woman is Yif.
That explains a lot.
Lots more stuff coming 'Soon'!
http://www.zairius.com
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
