Didn't know exactly where to put this so I'm throwing it to the wolves in here.
I have a friend who has a problem of going over the item limit from time to time, she's gotten the GM send a bunch of times because of it and recently was pulled up by one and given an official warning because of it.
She was also threatened with a lockout the next time she was warned of being over the item limit. She also e-mailed feedback and was pretty much told "Tough".
I was frankly apalled by this news, an AFK scripter has more chances than someone who goes over the item limits. Please understand that it was just by a few items, I mean 5-10 items she was over, not hundreds.
I've got a couple questions I was hoping I could get asked because she is a quiet person and doesn't believe in bringing it here:
Is a lockout warranted with being over the item limits?
Doesn't having over the item limit just hurt your own character?
CAN you get locked out by being over the item limit?
She has been in a bit of a funk lately from checking her inventory at all times, and now she doesn't get any joy from playing because of it. Can a GM answer these questions for me?
Genneron
Ask me about my Order
IM: Genneron
Li Tumbra Mir: The Order of the Iron Circle
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/FatherJarle/index.html
GENNERON
LIVINGSTEEL
Re: Item Policy
12/01/2003 02:34 PM CST
[note: all references to "you" in this post are a general "you", not anyone specific]
>>Is a lockout warranted with being over the item limits?
If you keep getting reminded and still do nothing to prevent it in the future, then yes. Why? See below.
>>Doesn't having over the item limit just hurt your own character?
It runs the risk of corrupting your character, making them unusable. To fix this, the onsite staff has to dig through tape backups to find the most recent backup copy of your character. When your character is restored, they will be "time warped" back to what they were at the time of that backup ... any exp gains, any changes at all to your character since that copy was made, will be lost. They will also investigate to see if you sold/lost/etc any of the character's items so they aren't just tossing in a freebie by restoring an item you didn't have anymore anyway.
(the exception to this is a game-wide restoration, which rarely happens in a time of crisis, like after a server change a while back when everyone's characters were ending up corrupted just by logging in <wince> ... since everyone was getting time-warped it didn't really matter who might have lost what, as far as potential fraud goes anyway)
(BTW, one thing hilarious about that incident ... they gave a system announcement that they would be rebooting the server and doing the time warp in a few minutes, so don't bother accumulating anything, you'll lose it anyway ... at that moment Mestralle and Sceth decided since it wouldn't matter after the time warp they immediately turned on Nimmo and started beating the crap out of him <cackle>)
That takes time ... time they could be spending working on the game as a whole, but instead they are spending it on you and that affects all of us. All because you didn't feel it worthy of your notice to manage your item count. Just type INV CHECK to see how much you have, it isn't that hard.
>>CAN you get locked out by being over the item limit?
As far as automatic lockouts, there's just the junk room, where the system sends you. As for actual lockouts, that's a GM call. As per policy, they can lockout anyone for any reason, they just usually, for the sake of reputation and customer service, won't flippantly lock someone out for no reason. Or, if they did, it would very likely get turned over later on.
In the case mentioned in the initial post, the lockout isn't for being over the item limit, per se, but for blatantly thumbing their nose at the GM's and ignoring their warnings. If a GM deems something serious enough to send you a message, the wise listen up and take heed. The foolish find themselves locked out. QED
>>She has been in a bit of a funk lately from checking her inventory at all times, and now she doesn't get any joy from playing because of it.
Why doesn't she instead get herself a vault and trim down the item count a bit? If one vault isn't enough, pay $2 extra for an additional character slot (first ten are pre-paid if you are a premium account) have them open a vault and transfer stuff over?
The item limit is there because of system limitations. Constantly toying with the item limit is risking loss of her character to file corruption, isn't that reason enough for her to DO something about it?
~~~Krin
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Goblins ... aisle 6, Mycthengelde ... hunt smart, hunt S-Mart!"
"You whine like a mule ... you are still alive!"
>>Is a lockout warranted with being over the item limits?
If you keep getting reminded and still do nothing to prevent it in the future, then yes. Why? See below.
>>Doesn't having over the item limit just hurt your own character?
It runs the risk of corrupting your character, making them unusable. To fix this, the onsite staff has to dig through tape backups to find the most recent backup copy of your character. When your character is restored, they will be "time warped" back to what they were at the time of that backup ... any exp gains, any changes at all to your character since that copy was made, will be lost. They will also investigate to see if you sold/lost/etc any of the character's items so they aren't just tossing in a freebie by restoring an item you didn't have anymore anyway.
(the exception to this is a game-wide restoration, which rarely happens in a time of crisis, like after a server change a while back when everyone's characters were ending up corrupted just by logging in <wince> ... since everyone was getting time-warped it didn't really matter who might have lost what, as far as potential fraud goes anyway)
(BTW, one thing hilarious about that incident ... they gave a system announcement that they would be rebooting the server and doing the time warp in a few minutes, so don't bother accumulating anything, you'll lose it anyway ... at that moment Mestralle and Sceth decided since it wouldn't matter after the time warp they immediately turned on Nimmo and started beating the crap out of him <cackle>)
That takes time ... time they could be spending working on the game as a whole, but instead they are spending it on you and that affects all of us. All because you didn't feel it worthy of your notice to manage your item count. Just type INV CHECK to see how much you have, it isn't that hard.
>>CAN you get locked out by being over the item limit?
As far as automatic lockouts, there's just the junk room, where the system sends you. As for actual lockouts, that's a GM call. As per policy, they can lockout anyone for any reason, they just usually, for the sake of reputation and customer service, won't flippantly lock someone out for no reason. Or, if they did, it would very likely get turned over later on.
In the case mentioned in the initial post, the lockout isn't for being over the item limit, per se, but for blatantly thumbing their nose at the GM's and ignoring their warnings. If a GM deems something serious enough to send you a message, the wise listen up and take heed. The foolish find themselves locked out. QED
>>She has been in a bit of a funk lately from checking her inventory at all times, and now she doesn't get any joy from playing because of it.
Why doesn't she instead get herself a vault and trim down the item count a bit? If one vault isn't enough, pay $2 extra for an additional character slot (first ten are pre-paid if you are a premium account) have them open a vault and transfer stuff over?
The item limit is there because of system limitations. Constantly toying with the item limit is risking loss of her character to file corruption, isn't that reason enough for her to DO something about it?
~~~Krin
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Goblins ... aisle 6, Mycthengelde ... hunt smart, hunt S-Mart!"
"You whine like a mule ... you are still alive!"
DR-LAURILANA
Re: Item Policy
12/01/2003 04:32 PM CST
Well now, Krinahd pretty much hit the nail on the head there. He is right on all counts and explains it all very well. The only thing I would like to add is that not only does a player risk corruption of their character, but they also risk crashing the entire game <gasps> and all that involves when/if it happens.
Imagine what would happen if we just turn our heads and let Player A run around with 511 items on them all the time. So, then Player B goes whoaaaa! Wait a minute, what is good for the goose is good for the gander, so he gets his favorite herb sack out of his vault and begins to tour the lands with 531 items all the time. Then, Player C....well, you get the drift. Eventually, our system resources are so totally eat up by sheer numbers of items that the game itself just gives up and goes KABOOM! Then, everyone is unhappy. Players are suddenly missing items or dead, staff are running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to replace items, etc.
Also, think of it this way. For every item over 500 that Player A carries, theoretically there is a newbie roaming around out there that really needs a new sword (his broke on that last gobbie), but cannot get one because Player A is carrying that extra 11 items that the system could have allowed him to have. That is a very broad analogy, but serves as an example of just what 'system limitations' means.
Folks, we keep an extremely close eye on this. We never, ever, ever want the game to crash or your character to be corrupted because of something so easily handled. Trick is to just monitor your INV. If you start to get close to 500, go unload for pete's sake <g>. You would be amazed at how many times we ask someone to unload, they promptly run to do so (being ohhh so cooperative), drop their INV to 499, and then get annoyed with us when we nudge again ten minutes later (after they went to hunt and picked up a couple gems popping them back up to 501 again).
Just keep your character clean and safe folks. Our lil nudges to you are for your own protection and everyone else's. They are not cause we wanna pick on folks for no reason at all (well Mean Maelona might have different ideas, but I digress). So, if our nudges are not heeded, yes, you can get warnings and you can get time out of the game. Again, this protects everyone.
DR-WESTRYL
Re: Item Policy
12/01/2003 05:33 PM CST
And one tiny addition, since some folks don't know... INV CHECK gives a general range of your item count. If you are over 500, drop 10 items and are now between 400 and 500, you should realize that that's a temporary solution. Pick up 10 things, and you're going to be over the limit again.
GM Westryl, Moon Mage Liaison
GM Westryl, Moon Mage Liaison
BARIEN
Re: Item Policy
12/02/2003 08:04 AM CST
>>And one tiny addition, since some folks don't know... INV CHECK gives a general range of your item count. If you are over 500, drop 10 items and are now between 400 and 500, you should realize that that's a temporary solution. Pick up 10 things, and you're going to be over the limit again.
Also it isn't perfect. Didn't happen to me, but know someone who logged out at 400 - 499 items but logged back in in the junk room. Just keep down between 300 - 400 itmes is safer. Why anyone would need that many items all the time is beyond me. If it gems or bundles, tie up the pouches or bundles.
Brabs
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/FatherJarle/index.html
Live by the shield, die by the shield.
Also it isn't perfect. Didn't happen to me, but know someone who logged out at 400 - 499 items but logged back in in the junk room. Just keep down between 300 - 400 itmes is safer. Why anyone would need that many items all the time is beyond me. If it gems or bundles, tie up the pouches or bundles.
Brabs
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/FatherJarle/index.html
Live by the shield, die by the shield.
XADA
Re: Item Policy
12/02/2003 10:04 PM CST
<<Also it isn't perfect. Didn't happen to me, but know someone who logged out at 400 - 499 items but logged back in in the junk room.>>
Hearsay.
<<Why anyone would need that many items all the time is beyond me. If it gems or bundles, tie up the pouches or bundles.>>
Give you 2 reasons it may happen.
1) Origami
2) Stealing in Muspar'i
~X
Hearsay.
<<Why anyone would need that many items all the time is beyond me. If it gems or bundles, tie up the pouches or bundles.>>
Give you 2 reasons it may happen.
1) Origami
2) Stealing in Muspar'i
~X
GONIFTHEEF
Re: Item Policy
12/02/2003 10:11 PM CST
Just another reason Muspar'I needs a pawnshop, and paper needs to be sold in reams.
So you can ste... um, buy a whole ream of paper, and then just tear off a piece from the stack to use to fold with as you go.
~Weak of arm,crazy roar;
terrible aim,awful health;
broken fingers,no real stealth;
leave em dead,stabbed some more;
lost your coins,on the floor;
greetings!now you're out the door~
>
So you can ste... um, buy a whole ream of paper, and then just tear off a piece from the stack to use to fold with as you go.
~Weak of arm,crazy roar;
terrible aim,awful health;
broken fingers,no real stealth;
leave em dead,stabbed some more;
lost your coins,on the floor;
greetings!now you're out the door~
>
LIVINGSTEEL
Re: Item Policy
12/02/2003 11:19 PM CST
We're getting envelopes (biggest ones were 100 sheets for 20 stones <drool>). They're just delayed for an upgrade before release.
~~~Krin
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Goblins ... aisle 6, Mycthengelde ... hunt smart, hunt S-Mart!"
"You whine like a mule ... you are still alive!"
~~~Krin
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Goblins ... aisle 6, Mycthengelde ... hunt smart, hunt S-Mart!"
"You whine like a mule ... you are still alive!"
NIGHTWIND
Re: Item Policy
01/06/2004 08:25 PM CST
You know, I've never understood why there isn't a hard cap on items, since going over 500 causes so many problems. I'm talking like this: "You're carrying too much to pick that up." and "You can't accept that until you get rid of some stuff." and "You can't steal that right now, or your overstuffed backpack will explode." and so on. Seems like it would solve a lot of the problems the 500 limit causes.
-Laelia JS
-Laelia JS
DR-WESTRYL
Re: Item Policy
01/06/2004 09:07 PM CST
<<You know, I've never understood why there isn't a hard cap on items, since going over 500 causes so many problems.
I'm no code monkey, but I can probably venture a guess on why that is. Every time you tried to get an item, the system would have to do a count of all your items in your inventory. On an individual basis, it's not a big deal, but taken as a whole, with the number of folks we have, it'd be a drain on resources on that scale.
GM Westryl, Moon Mage Liaison
I'm no code monkey, but I can probably venture a guess on why that is. Every time you tried to get an item, the system would have to do a count of all your items in your inventory. On an individual basis, it's not a big deal, but taken as a whole, with the number of folks we have, it'd be a drain on resources on that scale.
GM Westryl, Moon Mage Liaison
BANZAI5150
Re: Item Policy
01/06/2004 09:18 PM CST
I'm no code monkey either but... You'd have a static variable set to increment/decrement when Items are added, you would check vs the variable instead of counting each time.
Dwidus
ISP - ~$20 a Month
Subscription to DragonRealms - ~$13.00 a Month
Watching Your Characters get Wimped - Priceless
Dwidus
ISP - ~$20 a Month
Subscription to DragonRealms - ~$13.00 a Month
Watching Your Characters get Wimped - Priceless
MERDELL
Re: Item Policy
01/07/2004 01:57 AM CST
>I'm no code monkey either but... You'd have a static variable set to increment/decrement when Items are added, you would check vs the variable instead of counting each time.
Then the code for any action that removed or added an item to a player would have to be altered to adjust the counter. That's a lot of actions and code to change (put, take, steal, drop, forage, throw, fire, give, barter, tie, dismantle, skin, get, accept...)
-Merdell's player
Then the code for any action that removed or added an item to a player would have to be altered to adjust the counter. That's a lot of actions and code to change (put, take, steal, drop, forage, throw, fire, give, barter, tie, dismantle, skin, get, accept...)
-Merdell's player
BANZAI5150
Re: Item Policy
01/07/2004 04:00 AM CST
Ok, I'm not going to go into it, but how do you think that "Inv Check" knows how many items you have? Ya could set it to happen on the system heartbeat pulse, or trigger off something else. Anywho, it can be done with low overhead. Just take a peek at any MUD codebase out there, they all basically start off with an inventory restriction variable, etc. Not comparing their code to DR's, just saying it's doable and I've never seen any huge cpu process spike come from a inventory check. Oy, I babbled on a bit too much, and if ya dinna realize, I am a bit of a code-monkey anyway :p
Dwidus
ISP - ~$20 a Month
Subscription to DragonRealms - ~$13.00 a Month
Watching Your Characters get Wimped - Priceless
Dwidus
ISP - ~$20 a Month
Subscription to DragonRealms - ~$13.00 a Month
Watching Your Characters get Wimped - Priceless
BARIEN
Re: Item Policy
01/07/2004 09:03 AM CST
>> Ok, I'm not going to go into it, but how do you think that "Inv Check" knows how many items you have?
Inv Check is not 100% accurate, can end up in junk room when shows 400 - 499 items when you log back in.
And keeping a variable on each character in game, for everytime they, buy, sell, tie off a pouch, bundle, steal, drop, forage, get, etc an item would slow down the system, especially during prime time. Also have to take in account tying off gem pouchses and bundles, a bundle holds different number of skins depending on weight and can be tied up at any time, while gem pouches can be tied off at any time, full or not.
It may look easy of paper, but would be a bit more involved than you may realize. It not that hard to just check your inventory time to time, or just keep it in the 200 - 300 range as that a pretty safe range of items to be in.
Brabs
Fighting with a bunch of archers in Geni.
"Hey, it's shoot GENI, not shoot GEN!"
Ambassador Genneron, of M'riss
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/FatherJarle/index.html
Live by the shield, die by the shield.
Inv Check is not 100% accurate, can end up in junk room when shows 400 - 499 items when you log back in.
And keeping a variable on each character in game, for everytime they, buy, sell, tie off a pouch, bundle, steal, drop, forage, get, etc an item would slow down the system, especially during prime time. Also have to take in account tying off gem pouchses and bundles, a bundle holds different number of skins depending on weight and can be tied up at any time, while gem pouches can be tied off at any time, full or not.
It may look easy of paper, but would be a bit more involved than you may realize. It not that hard to just check your inventory time to time, or just keep it in the 200 - 300 range as that a pretty safe range of items to be in.
Brabs
Fighting with a bunch of archers in Geni.
"Hey, it's shoot GENI, not shoot GEN!"
Ambassador Genneron, of M'riss
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/FatherJarle/index.html
Live by the shield, die by the shield.
MOONSTOMP
Re: Item Policy
01/07/2004 12:08 PM CST
Also, I'm not a big MUD person, so I may be off here, BUT, I don't think many of the other MUDs have THIS many players with THIS many items to count every time something happens.
SIMU-ANDY
Re: Item Policy
01/07/2004 05:17 PM CST
I am a code monkey (or rather, a techGnome), and honest, there are reasons why the number of inventory items isn't checked in real time at all times.
Andy
Andy
WALDNERC
Re: Item Policy
01/10/2004 09:04 PM CST
>>or rather, a techGnome
/punt gnome
/runs and hides
~Ambreene
/punt gnome
/runs and hides
~Ambreene
