I think DR should do away with the profile system and just make a hardcoded on/off PvP flag. If your flag is off, other players are physically unable to attack you outside of CHALLENGE or a similar hardcoded consent verb. If it's on, GMs stay out of your PvP conflicts. If you want to attack anyone, steal, or pick up a grave item, you have to turn your PvP flag on first. This would essentially accomplish everything the profile system sets out to, but with much less subjectivity and staff time consumed.
LATATHI2
INCARNATION
Re: DR should move to hardcoded PvP flags.
01/31/2011 05:35 PM CST
If that happens, I guarantee we'll quickly find dozens or hundreds of ways for players with the flags set to off to harass other players without fear of possible retaliation. I don't think you'd actually decrease staff work at all, and you're adding a bunch of coder work on top of it.
LATATHI2
Re: DR should move to hardcoded PvP flags.
01/31/2011 05:44 PM CST
>>If that happens, I guarantee we'll quickly find dozens or hundreds of ways for players with the flags set to off to harass other players without fear of possible retaliation. I don't think you'd actually decrease staff work at all, and you're adding a bunch of coder work on top of it.
The thing is, this already happens. I don't know about you, but I no longer consider it an acceptable risk to kill a CLOSED or sometimes even GUARDED person who has been provoking my character in some blatant way. The risk of eventual account destruction due to accumulated warnings is too serious.
I think the amount of staff time required to occasionally lock a mech abusing player OPEN would be far less than the amount currently required to mediate each and every conflict where someone decides they don't like the outcome of a conflict and uses REPORT.
The thing is, this already happens. I don't know about you, but I no longer consider it an acceptable risk to kill a CLOSED or sometimes even GUARDED person who has been provoking my character in some blatant way. The risk of eventual account destruction due to accumulated warnings is too serious.
I think the amount of staff time required to occasionally lock a mech abusing player OPEN would be far less than the amount currently required to mediate each and every conflict where someone decides they don't like the outcome of a conflict and uses REPORT.
RAIST
Re: DR should move to hardcoded PvP flags.
01/31/2011 05:45 PM CST
>we'll quickly find dozens or hundreds of ways for players with the flags set to off to harass other players without fear of possible retaliation.
You'd also need a system that could distinguish between theft and picking up, identify scamming, graverobbing, and a host of other issues that current give consent but don't require it.
Nice idea, but not practical.
"Your suffering amuses me" -GM Raesh
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
You'd also need a system that could distinguish between theft and picking up, identify scamming, graverobbing, and a host of other issues that current give consent but don't require it.
Nice idea, but not practical.
"Your suffering amuses me" -GM Raesh
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
TEVESHSZAT
Re: DR should move to hardcoded PvP flags.
01/31/2011 05:53 PM CST
Got a caution and/or warning, huh.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
LATATHI2
Re: DR should move to hardcoded PvP flags.
01/31/2011 05:59 PM CST
>>You'd also need a system that could distinguish between theft and picking up, identify scamming, graverobbing, and a host of other issues that current give consent but don't require it.
Currently when you decide to attack a player who has done any of those things and isn't OPEN, you run the risk that they're going to defraud a GM in some way and you'll end up with a warning. While policy-abusing players are a problem in either system, a hardcoded system wouldn't truly add new ways and would remove some existing ways that they can cause trouble.
Currently when you decide to attack a player who has done any of those things and isn't OPEN, you run the risk that they're going to defraud a GM in some way and you'll end up with a warning. While policy-abusing players are a problem in either system, a hardcoded system wouldn't truly add new ways and would remove some existing ways that they can cause trouble.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: DR should move to hardcoded PvP flags.
01/31/2011 06:26 PM CST
You could always WARN to get the first word.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: DR should move to hardcoded PvP flags.
01/31/2011 06:37 PM CST
<<Nice idea, but not practical.>>
RAIST pretty much nailed it.
There are simply too many ways to confuse an already confusing issue. The system we have now isn't perfect, but it's a far sight better than what we had in the past.
The real issue is when people believe they can choose to stringently follow the letter of the law and not the spirit. That's why we have made it very clear that no policy is hard and fast or black-and-white.
The letter of the law says you can attack anyone who is Open for any reason, at any time.
The spirit of the law is that there can come a time when even if someone is Open, it goes beyond "for any reason" and turns into harassment or disruption.
Bullying someone into eventually dropping down to Guarded might seem to solve the problem and prevent that person from being attacked at any time for any reason, but it doesn't eliminate the fact that the bullying is happening. What that person would be doing is imposing their playstyle upon other players.
What it also doesn't account for is the fact that some people choose to walk around from room to room, checking every inhabitants' PROFILE and randomly attacking those who are open. While again, that's fine within the letter of the law, the spirit of the law is that this sort of behaviour can eventually turn into disruption, if not harassment.
Solomon
Be our Facebook Pal!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/DragonRealms/60215414412
RAIST pretty much nailed it.
There are simply too many ways to confuse an already confusing issue. The system we have now isn't perfect, but it's a far sight better than what we had in the past.
The real issue is when people believe they can choose to stringently follow the letter of the law and not the spirit. That's why we have made it very clear that no policy is hard and fast or black-and-white.
The letter of the law says you can attack anyone who is Open for any reason, at any time.
The spirit of the law is that there can come a time when even if someone is Open, it goes beyond "for any reason" and turns into harassment or disruption.
Bullying someone into eventually dropping down to Guarded might seem to solve the problem and prevent that person from being attacked at any time for any reason, but it doesn't eliminate the fact that the bullying is happening. What that person would be doing is imposing their playstyle upon other players.
What it also doesn't account for is the fact that some people choose to walk around from room to room, checking every inhabitants' PROFILE and randomly attacking those who are open. While again, that's fine within the letter of the law, the spirit of the law is that this sort of behaviour can eventually turn into disruption, if not harassment.
Solomon
Be our Facebook Pal!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/DragonRealms/60215414412
YAMCER
Re: DR should move to hardcoded PvP flags.
01/31/2011 06:58 PM CST
<<a hardcoded system wouldn't truly add new ways and would remove some existing ways that they can cause trouble.>>
Nothing can ever be made fool-proof, since fools are so ingenious.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Nothing can ever be made fool-proof, since fools are so ingenious.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
