Well again death has already been made less and less painful since well.... 1997.

If you'd like to discuss the merits of a system by which active EXP can be preserved upon death, and potential pitfalls thereof, that would be great.

As a player I'd like death to carry no consequence whatsoever, but many games get boring after you switch on "god mode".

Its a tough balance between making something so punitive that it makes a game no fun, and making a game have zero consequence. As currently constructed I think death dishes out an appropriate ammount of punishment. Again I don't think an hour of training loss or whatever at the extreme TOP end of punishment is even that severe.

---

Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:

http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html

In effect, you summed up why you should be open all by yourself, or that you need to change the way you play. "I am a mouthy player" means that in a fantasy world containing dragons, goblins orcs and others(necromancers, thieves, assassins and just nasty people) means you know that you are pushing buttons. If pushing said buttons means the occasional death, well you bring it on yourself. GM's have stated ad nauseum that you have to play to your PvP setting. Playing the, well I want PvP but only on my terms, does not excuse you from playing as guarded should. Mouthy and closed...going to get killed. Mouthy and guarded..not only are you going to get killed but make a name for yourself as a whiner, so people will sit waiting for you to get mouthy so they can kill you again. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being mouthy, half the player base is. The problem lies in you thinking that being mouthy is just A OK as your RP and everyone else has to adjust to YOU. You will find yourself in one of two places. Thoroughly frustrated that your numbers are going up because of the deaths(cause exp is SO hard to replace) or warn interacting everyone that might take issue with your RP. Switch to open, take the deaths as they come as penance for being mouthy and run with it to further RP, or shut up, play like guarded is meant(don't let your mouth write checks your butt isn't willing to cash) and learn to enjoy being a kind sweet pacifist that never upsets others for fear of dying and losing meaningless text exp.

TL:DR RP the way that actually reflects your stance.

>>JARRETTJ26

I do not think it's too difficult for someone to A)use a warn, B)toss off an ooc whisper C) utilizing the challenge system. Personal preference in reverse there.

Challenges are just as good without the exp loss and death penalties, and I'd personally never turn one down.

Seems a good way for a "mouthy" guarded player to operate. (besides the fact that I treat people like i would in real life, and don't try and piss anyone off I don't already know and/or consider a friend)

Random mouthiness to strangers should be met with some proper punishment, no disagreements there.

With the warn/challenge/OOC stuff you are again asking other players to adapt to what YOU want. Some people will have no problem with this. Others will. You are basically asking for advanced notice of what another player will do so you can either prepare for it(kinda takes away the element of surprise that most like to utilize in combat stealth, debil spell etc) or so you can backtrack and apologize/alter the situation. Now I am by no way advocating killing someone for saying dwarves are smelly(they are) or that a keep was blown up causing you joy(more than a few see it as rather funny, especially since that whole plot line is deader than the equine cemetery) but if you are going to engage in ongoing RP of an annoying, harassing or otherwise dislikable sort, you are gonna get smacked down for it. My biggest problem with the PvP stance system is that people really do expect others(paying the same amount a month) to adjust their RP based on an OOC mechanic. Two people are fighting/arguing/bantering and things are all just fine til one decides the line has been crossed. In a normal situation, words become actions. In your scenario, the line has been crossed(imagined or not) and now said aggrieved person must now pause, check profiles(guarded...hrm...let me make SURE I have consent) then decide to take the time to utilize other forms of OOC mechanics to make sure the altercation procedes in a manner YOU accept as appropriate.

You wouldn't expect to be having an argument at the local bar over the best team in the NFL to all of a sudden pause, let the guy check your wallet for your please don't hit me til I say its ok card, make sure the rules of the bar fight are to your liking and also give you advanced warning that he is now going to in fact hit you. 90% of DR altercations do not end in someone's text dying, let alone being injured, so roll with it, accept the occasional text death and be a good sport about it. Most of the time the person will actually find you an empath and cleric to boot. Its a violent game staged in a violent world where you train to be violent or defend against violence. That violence happens to you in away you dislike is just a side effect of the whole.

>>With the warn/challenge/OOC stuff you are again asking other players to adapt to what YOU want.

With the "lets not alert the player who may be unaware of what's about to befall the opportunity to back out and say 'hey, sorry not for me'" you are asking other players to adapt to what YOU want.

The point I made earlier that you are missing here is I AGREE WITH YOU. Don't write checks with your mouth etc. I see no reason to KILL a character when you can beat them to near death via a challenge.

this is a circular difference of opinion on the matter, and has successfully derailed my orignial intent of "let's talk about dropping loss of exp at PVP death somehow" which clearly our value theories are different on.

Please, stay on topic or stop responding, I really don't want to get this thread shut down like the last 50.

You are missing the point you have already made(possibly unintentionally). By being a self described "mouthy" character, you should be prepared for an adverse reaction. You don't get in a boxing ring and wind up surprised you got punched. The reaction you get for being mouthy is another persons adapting to what you started by being mouthy. You should be prepared to get whacked if you are acting in an aggressive manner, whether verbally or physically, you are inviting an aggressive response. What you are trying to do, through asking for a warn/challenge/whisper(and to a different extent asking for PvP deaths to be coded differently) is to control the response you opened the door to. Some will banter away forever, some may thump you, and others will kill your text. The "appropriate response" is at the discretion of the person responding, not you.

In its simplest form, a PvP death is a trivial thing. Clerics will not only save your memories where they are(zero loss of ranks), but also be able to replace some of the learning pools you had going at the time of death. Now I am not in any way saying people should bring others into the conflict, be it an alt(against policy) or a bigger character not involved(they should know better except when warranted due to harassment of little characters, all of whom involved should be open). To stay on topic, the GM's have made death penalties so minor that the likely worst one is a gweth breaking. Memories/learning can be restored, spell scrolls have a chance to be retained, deaths sting can be negated by vigil/uncurse, the depart options expanded if a cleric isn't available keep you from losing items or coins, and as you pointed out...over the course of playing for 18 years...one hour of training is a drop in the bucket.

If you want a game with zero consequences for your actions(or incredibly forgiving ones) perhaps DR isn't for you any more. Which ever way things go, I hope you find a way to enjoy DR as it is instead of asking others to mold it and themselves into something different so it suits you ideals and ideas.

I'm unfriending all of you for this thread.

---
NaOH+HI

Whatever I already got posts removed. Dead horse

---

Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:

http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html

Has anyone ever seen how much exp you do loose if you take a death? or complete exp loss for that matter? And on that, does anyone actully have this happen to them (a complete exp loss) more than say 1 in 20 times from returning from a full exp fill?

Does the frustration you feel from loosing that exp justify what is lost?

I dont know..... sometimes i think there is alittle to much over reaction for what really being lost in any instant. And then the point of the game is completly lost. That this is all role play.



Rifkinn

My best understanding from observation:

You die and you lose obviously your field experience and 3% of a rank (regardless of how many ranks you have in something) in each skill you have in your total experience if you depart immediately. Arguably, it'd be more annoying to get the 3% back for the HLCs compared to smaller characters, since 3% of 1 rank takes quite a while with like .1 pulses per 200 seconds.

Also, it'd be more frustrating for magic users to die compared to NMUs because they actually have a chance of losing memorized spells.

To avoid losing a percentage of already absorbed experience, you have to get resurrected and then you would get some of your field experience back, as well.

---

"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade

>>1 hour to fill, 1 second to empty. Doesn't matter what the loss is after that; you've already lost at least an hour of work.

One hour out of 1, 2, 5, 10 years? The end of this game takes a long time to get to and an hour lost out of that really makes no difference.

Even when I had more limited time to play, exp loss from death was the least of my cares when I died. .3 -.4 loss in a skill at most at the high end is not enough to change how effective you are in any skill, and is not going to set you back in any race except the one in your head. Skills do not take a ridiculous amount of time to lock anymore, for the most part, if you are training them properly. Ranks come to easy to even complain about it sub 300 ranks, and even at 1100+ in a primary skill I can still get a rank a day.

I really have to ask though, what are you in such a race to reach that an hour of lost time is this big of a deal? There is no end game. Are you all just racing to get bored?

>The end of this game takes a long time to get to and an hour lost out of that really makes no difference.

The request was for a subjective response.

You got one. You can't qualify or quantify or disregard my opinion. That's how I feel. I answered.

This is why things like the guarded stance dosnt work in a game like this.

Where people are having a negative emotional response to when things dont go their way it sudgests that they have some kind of belief their is some kind of end game. Or at the very least some kind of victory belief. This brings up a win or loose mentality to how they interact. Giveing them a middle ground or "saftey net" like a guarded stance it only serves to conspire or innocently collude with this mentality. with respect to RP interaction that is.


2 mins to scribble this opinion out just isnt enough time..... off to work, have fun, ta dar!



Rifkinn.