Very short backstory. I was preying on the afk traders zooming around town and found one daydreaming in front of the bank. Third grab and I pulled his spiritgem. I didn't think this was an appropriate thing to keep, so I stepped out of hiding and offered it back. He accepted, thanked me, and I went on my way.
I make it no further than the haven ferry and get gibbed by another person entirely, with a warning about being careful who you steal from. I reply that I'll instead be careful to whom I pay a kindness, and departed. I don't even get from the temple to the Caravansary before being struck down again by the same person, who apparently just wanted to continue the conversation. I didn't use the warn command, but on that occasion I verbally warned him that he was crossing the line between sending a message and harassing. He laughed.
I make it back to crossing, and plant myself outside the infirmary to rest and recoup, when bam. Dead again, same person, with the message that I should be careful who I threaten(?). This time, however, before I died, the trader in front of the bank comes into the room and hides. A few minutes after my death, said trader dances out of hiding, leaves the room, and both log off (can't check profile).
My question: Do I have consent on that (snip) who transparently, gleefully, logged on to another, much larger character to exact his revenge? His property was returned, I fail to see how his/her behavior falls within what PVP open for stealing was designed for.
Thanks.
BOBTHESNOB5515
BOBTHESNOB5515
PCOOK
Re: Consent Question
11/24/2012 07:02 PM CST
I'd go for it, if you got logs to back up your story there's little chance he'd report... Call it a lesson learned should have kept the spirit gem.
BOBTHESNOB5515
Re: Consent Question
11/24/2012 07:04 PM CST
>Call it a lesson learned should have kept the spirit gem.
I don't think that's the lesson here, but thanks for the responses.
I don't think that's the lesson here, but thanks for the responses.
NIKPACK
Re: Consent Question
11/24/2012 07:36 PM CST
Cuthalion's response is pretty spot on with how I read the situation. After you stole, you were marked PVP OPEN, so anyone could attack you without having to get consent.
<<What is the penalty for killing him (the trader) anyways?
I always assume the worst and in this case it would be the penalty to killing someone without consent, a PVP warning and the various penalties associated with that.
Best case scenario, the killings and PvP encounter continues.
Nikpack
<<What is the penalty for killing him (the trader) anyways?
I always assume the worst and in this case it would be the penalty to killing someone without consent, a PVP warning and the various penalties associated with that.
Best case scenario, the killings and PvP encounter continues.
Nikpack
PCOOK
Re: Consent Question
11/24/2012 08:22 PM CST
Fine then mentally and verbally abuse the trader. Report him for AFK liberally ... Harass him to death, two can play policy.
PCOOK
Re: Consent Question
11/24/2012 08:22 PM CST
Fine then mentally and verbally abuse the trader. Report him for AFK liberally ... Harass him to death, two can play policy.
BOBTHESNOB5515
Re: Consent Question
11/24/2012 08:56 PM CST
>Fine then mentally and verbally abuse the trader. Report him for AFK liberally ... Harass him to death, two can play policy.
I appreciate the solidarity, but I don't think I should respond to mech abuse with mech abuse. I'd like to keep the GMs out of it entirely, since it's an instance of pvp open. He chose to abuse the system(at the very least the spirit behind the policy), and I'd like to punish him IG. My only real concern was whether the same system he "victimized" would turn around and treat me like the abuser.
From the majority responses, that appears to be the case.
>Yes, he may have abused the system, but you did steal. That alone entitles anyone and everyone to pound you into the ground in perpetuity and steal everything you own.
That doesn't seem right. That doesn't sound like a game environment anyone would want fostered. I thought the idea behind OPEN for stealing was to curtail thieves hiding behind the system to victimize other players, NOT to enable abuse from the other direction.
>What is the penalty for killing him anyways?
I'm going to stay my hand, actually. While it's tempting to incite him on to extreme cruelty, I kind of enjoy forging. I'm certain the last thing the GMs need right now is another spat.
I appreciate the solidarity, but I don't think I should respond to mech abuse with mech abuse. I'd like to keep the GMs out of it entirely, since it's an instance of pvp open. He chose to abuse the system(at the very least the spirit behind the policy), and I'd like to punish him IG. My only real concern was whether the same system he "victimized" would turn around and treat me like the abuser.
From the majority responses, that appears to be the case.
>Yes, he may have abused the system, but you did steal. That alone entitles anyone and everyone to pound you into the ground in perpetuity and steal everything you own.
That doesn't seem right. That doesn't sound like a game environment anyone would want fostered. I thought the idea behind OPEN for stealing was to curtail thieves hiding behind the system to victimize other players, NOT to enable abuse from the other direction.
>What is the penalty for killing him anyways?
I'm going to stay my hand, actually. While it's tempting to incite him on to extreme cruelty, I kind of enjoy forging. I'm certain the last thing the GMs need right now is another spat.
SHADOW7988
Re: Consent Question
11/24/2012 09:00 PM CST
>Yes, he may have abused the system, but you did steal. That alone entitles anyone and everyone to pound you into the ground in perpetuity and steal everything you own.
This is a bit off, it is marking you Open, so anyone can attack you, however if they are grabbing your stuff, or harassing you. That's just as wrong as it would be to harass an Open Necromancer.
However yes, anyone and everyone is entitled to hunt you while your open, you did something illegal and the bounty hunters are going to take it out of you in flesh and blood.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
This is a bit off, it is marking you Open, so anyone can attack you, however if they are grabbing your stuff, or harassing you. That's just as wrong as it would be to harass an Open Necromancer.
However yes, anyone and everyone is entitled to hunt you while your open, you did something illegal and the bounty hunters are going to take it out of you in flesh and blood.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
BOBTHESNOB5515
Re: Consent Question
11/24/2012 09:50 PM CST
>When you first stole from him, that was an unprovoked attack. When you got killed for it, that was a completely justified response.
Had it ended there, I wouldn't be here. This leaves out the fact that I returned the stolen property(and in doing so gave him the only opportunity to identify me he could have had), that he didn't kill me once, but thrice, and that he made it plain that it was none other than the same person, by logging out of one character and onto another in the room I was in. He couldn't have been more plain had he emailed me a screencap.
>You really have no proof of [mech abuse] at all.
I actually have the only evidence I could possibly possess, but it's not really about what I can prove, it's about what a GM can prove.
>but you don't suddenly become the victim.
He broke the rules(y'know, policy?) in order to behave in an abhorrent way towards another person, for no reason other than that he could (since he lost nothing).
And he's going to get away with it, because it's just not worth it for me; because I'm likely to receive the reprimand he deserves; because I'm apparently "playing the victim".
>Other options would be to keep stealing from him whenever you can without getting caught, and resist any generous impulses to give back the swag.
Yes, that's a given at this point :)
Had it ended there, I wouldn't be here. This leaves out the fact that I returned the stolen property(and in doing so gave him the only opportunity to identify me he could have had), that he didn't kill me once, but thrice, and that he made it plain that it was none other than the same person, by logging out of one character and onto another in the room I was in. He couldn't have been more plain had he emailed me a screencap.
>You really have no proof of [mech abuse] at all.
I actually have the only evidence I could possibly possess, but it's not really about what I can prove, it's about what a GM can prove.
>but you don't suddenly become the victim.
He broke the rules(y'know, policy?) in order to behave in an abhorrent way towards another person, for no reason other than that he could (since he lost nothing).
And he's going to get away with it, because it's just not worth it for me; because I'm likely to receive the reprimand he deserves; because I'm apparently "playing the victim".
>Other options would be to keep stealing from him whenever you can without getting caught, and resist any generous impulses to give back the swag.
Yes, that's a given at this point :)
PCOOK
Re: Consent Question
11/24/2012 10:39 PM CST
<<<This is terrible advice, and if you catch the attention of any GM it will undoubtedly backfire in your face. But, I think the OP has the sense to realize this.>>
See we found the trader get him!
See we found the trader get him!
SGUMIKE
Re: Consent Question
11/26/2012 02:50 AM CST
The first death is a given. The follow ups are simply taking it too far. The guy made a point in showing off it was his alt. the least you could do is put him on blast here. Who knows, "random" stranger may find it in them to take revenge on your behalf. If not, atleast we'd have better knowledge of our local mouth breathers.
BOBTHESNOB5515
Re: Consent Question
11/26/2012 06:36 AM CST
Nah, he's pathetically easy to steal from, and like I said before, his behavior has earned him a permanent shadow. If he takes stealing that seriously, he's in for a world of hurt in the coming weeks and months.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Consent Question
11/26/2012 07:31 AM CST
>>Nah, he's pathetically easy to steal from, and like I said before, his behavior has earned him a permanent shadow. If he takes stealing that seriously, he's in for a world of hurt in the coming weeks and months
Yeah but IF it is his alt, this is how its going to play out:
You steal from him.
Since he is a trader, he gets a message, whatever it is, that someone is stealing from him.
He's going to do this:
profile <your name here>
PVP Stance: Open
Log alt > kill you again, even if he doesn't know it's you, he already has your name.
This is Assuming the guy DID log in his alt, if he did he won't hesitate to use OOC ways, mech abuse again. (sad but true)
So in the end you are probably the one going to pay again.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
Yeah but IF it is his alt, this is how its going to play out:
You steal from him.
Since he is a trader, he gets a message, whatever it is, that someone is stealing from him.
He's going to do this:
profile <your name here>
PVP Stance: Open
Log alt > kill you again, even if he doesn't know it's you, he already has your name.
This is Assuming the guy DID log in his alt, if he did he won't hesitate to use OOC ways, mech abuse again. (sad but true)
So in the end you are probably the one going to pay again.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Consent Question
11/26/2012 08:50 AM CST
>>Since he is a trader, he gets a message, whatever it is, that someone is stealing from him.
This doesn't work all the time, by any stretch of the imagination. I'd hardly call it a deterrent to stealing from Traders, which is why they're such popular theft targets (that and money).
This doesn't work all the time, by any stretch of the imagination. I'd hardly call it a deterrent to stealing from Traders, which is why they're such popular theft targets (that and money).
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Consent Question
11/26/2012 08:59 AM CST
>>This doesn't work all the time, by any stretch of the imagination.
When doesn't it work, or is the message just a skill vs skill check? I just thought it was a perk to the trader guild....the messaging being something about pockets being lighter or something like that.
>>I'd hardly call it a deterrent to stealing from Traders
In the situation above it would be!
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
When doesn't it work, or is the message just a skill vs skill check? I just thought it was a perk to the trader guild....the messaging being something about pockets being lighter or something like that.
>>I'd hardly call it a deterrent to stealing from Traders
In the situation above it would be!
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
BOBTHESNOB5515
Re: Consent Question
11/26/2012 09:04 AM CST
My stance is always open. So regardless of whether I do steal from him or someone else does it, if that's how he intends to play, I may as well profit in the meanwhile.
I'm starting to warm to the idea that thieves are pariahs.
Of course, new facts have surfaced demonstrating that I was wrong. The first is that both he and my assassin were logged on at the same time. Thus, I was mistaken, and restraint paid dividends. The second is that I have already done business with him post-rp, so it appears we're both able to be adults about it.
I'm starting to warm to the idea that thieves are pariahs.
Of course, new facts have surfaced demonstrating that I was wrong. The first is that both he and my assassin were logged on at the same time. Thus, I was mistaken, and restraint paid dividends. The second is that I have already done business with him post-rp, so it appears we're both able to be adults about it.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Consent Question
11/26/2012 09:08 AM CST
>>When doesn't it work, or is the message just a skill vs skill check? I just thought it was a perk to the trader guild....the messaging being something about pockets being lighter or something like that.
I'm really not sure what it's function is, to be honest. My Trader's level 51 with 310 perception, the only thing I could tell you is that I frequently notice I am missing a few gold and got no indication of such. It does happen sometimes, though.
I'm really not sure what it's function is, to be honest. My Trader's level 51 with 310 perception, the only thing I could tell you is that I frequently notice I am missing a few gold and got no indication of such. It does happen sometimes, though.
REASONMJ
Re: Consent Question
11/26/2012 11:51 PM CST
>>When doesn't it work, or is the message just a skill vs skill check? I just thought it was a perk to the trader guild....the messaging being something about pockets being lighter or something like that.
It is a perk from being a Trader, and it does work automatically without requiring any action from the Trader, but there is some sort of skillcheck involved, since it doesn't always work 100% of the time. The skill check is fairly generous to the Trader though, since the whole point of the ability is only to give you a warning when you didn't have enough skill to outright catch the pickpocket, which is generally of fairly little use and no deterrent whatsoever (assuming no mechanics abuse bringing in alts to kill people for you)
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
It is a perk from being a Trader, and it does work automatically without requiring any action from the Trader, but there is some sort of skillcheck involved, since it doesn't always work 100% of the time. The skill check is fairly generous to the Trader though, since the whole point of the ability is only to give you a warning when you didn't have enough skill to outright catch the pickpocket, which is generally of fairly little use and no deterrent whatsoever (assuming no mechanics abuse bringing in alts to kill people for you)
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
