With being told by the GMs that armor tert guilds need to move down to lighter armors I'm wondering what to do with my warrior mage.
I don't think I'll have any fun spending the year and a half it would take to catch another armor up to where my HP is at now. Is there any chance that HP will remain a viable choice for warrior mages?
APATHETICSMILE
YANSHADEY
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 11:12 AM CST
Know the feeling. HP has been my armor of choice for a while now.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 11:15 AM CST
>>Know the feeling. HP has been my armor of choice for a while now.
It's literally all I've trained on my warrior mage.
I did about 50 ranks in LC after finding out that I couldn't learn TM anymore on the test server before I got so bored that I had to start a new character.
It's literally all I've trained on my warrior mage.
I did about 50 ranks in LC after finding out that I couldn't learn TM anymore on the test server before I got so bored that I had to start a new character.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 11:33 AM CST
You can try simply wearing lighter HP that will impose a less significant maneuvering hindrance. But truthfully, the knowledge that this change to YS and armors is pretty old. My warmie has been training all metal armors, and simply let LP and HP drop when I got tired of swapping greaves.
You can also decide to backtrain lighter armor types gradually; certainly with buffs and lightish plate armor, your hindrance won't suddenly be debilitating.
You can also decide to backtrain lighter armor types gradually; certainly with buffs and lightish plate armor, your hindrance won't suddenly be debilitating.
SHADOW7988
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 11:34 AM CST
This is not as a Warrior Mage playing character, I have a lot of different characters and I think I rolled one up back in 96 and ran with it for a short while.
Conceptually I see Warrior Mages wearing heavy armors, I don't see them as the type that would don fraily robes and frolic around. They'd stand take a beating while throwing spells at opponents to destroy them.
I mean check the image that is on the Professions: Warrior Mage page of the DR website: http://www.play.net/dr/info/guilds/wm.asp
Does that like like cloth or some form of plate armor, it looks like plate to me.
I know it's in their Tertiary Skillset, but I believe they should have at least one heavy armor skill in their SoI.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Conceptually I see Warrior Mages wearing heavy armors, I don't see them as the type that would don fraily robes and frolic around. They'd stand take a beating while throwing spells at opponents to destroy them.
I mean check the image that is on the Professions: Warrior Mage page of the DR website: http://www.play.net/dr/info/guilds/wm.asp
Does that like like cloth or some form of plate armor, it looks like plate to me.
I know it's in their Tertiary Skillset, but I believe they should have at least one heavy armor skill in their SoI.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 11:41 AM CST
>>You can try simply wearing lighter HP that will impose a less significant maneuvering hindrance
I've tried lighter plate on the test server and still can't survive against the enemies I require to move TM.
>>But truthfully, the knowledge that this change to YS and armors is pretty old.
Yup and when it was first announced there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth and the answer the GMs gave us was that plate would be a viable armor type for all guilds in 3.0.
I've tried lighter plate on the test server and still can't survive against the enemies I require to move TM.
>>But truthfully, the knowledge that this change to YS and armors is pretty old.
Yup and when it was first announced there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth and the answer the GMs gave us was that plate would be a viable armor type for all guilds in 3.0.
HAMBARD
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 12:03 PM CST
Have you tried changing up stances to account for your evasion stinking anyways? Go hard on the parry/shield stances maybe?
Either that or maybe it will work up to usable with some backtraining. I'd see if the GMs will boost your HP skill in test to see if that makes the critter more huntable, etc...
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
Either that or maybe it will work up to usable with some backtraining. I'd see if the GMs will boost your HP skill in test to see if that makes the critter more huntable, etc...
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
POWERHAUS
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 12:43 PM CST
look into some of the old Kanton gear maybe?
Lumium or Steel should work fine unless you feel you can handle the weight/hinderance/cost of damite or better.
Here's my HP armor(I think it's a light field plate in my glance window) with 101 in HP
The full plate is heavy plate.
The plate looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
right leg
left leg
chest
abdomen
back
>>You feel certain that a pockmarked bronze full plate appears to impose extreme maneuvering hindrance and insane stealth hindrance, offering:
very high protection and exceptional damage absorption for puncture attacks.
great protection and exceptional damage absorption for slice attacks.
very good protection and exceptional damage absorption for impact attacks.
very high protection and exceptional damage absorption for fire attacks.
very high protection and exceptional damage absorption for cold attacks.
high protection and exceptional damage absorption for electrical attacks.
>>If you were only wearing a pockmarked bronze full plate you could expect your maneuvering to be fairly hindered and your stealth to be extremely hindered.
You are confident that the full plate is very strong against damage, and are in pristine condition.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
Lumium or Steel should work fine unless you feel you can handle the weight/hinderance/cost of damite or better.
Here's my HP armor(I think it's a light field plate in my glance window) with 101 in HP
The full plate is heavy plate.
The plate looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
right leg
left leg
chest
abdomen
back
>>You feel certain that a pockmarked bronze full plate appears to impose extreme maneuvering hindrance and insane stealth hindrance, offering:
very high protection and exceptional damage absorption for puncture attacks.
great protection and exceptional damage absorption for slice attacks.
very good protection and exceptional damage absorption for impact attacks.
very high protection and exceptional damage absorption for fire attacks.
very high protection and exceptional damage absorption for cold attacks.
high protection and exceptional damage absorption for electrical attacks.
>>If you were only wearing a pockmarked bronze full plate you could expect your maneuvering to be fairly hindered and your stealth to be extremely hindered.
You are confident that the full plate is very strong against damage, and are in pristine condition.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 03:15 PM CST
>>I've tried lighter plate on the test server and still can't survive against the enemies I require to move TM.
Not enough information given; what's the spread between your TM and your other combats?
Appraise your current armor setup so we can see what your hindrance is.
Not enough information given; what's the spread between your TM and your other combats?
Appraise your current armor setup so we can see what your hindrance is.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 03:24 PM CST
>>Not enough information given; what's the spread between your TM and your other combats?
About a hundred rank gap between TM and defenses, all are in the zombie head stompers range in prime. On test I still appear to need head-stompers to move TM but they're killing me fairly quickly without HEALME spam.
Stepping down to maulers or whatever it is below head stompers lets me survive but wont get TM to show up on the board.
>>Appraise your current armor setup so we can see what your hindrance is.
I'm at work now but I remember my rig as appraising at "you are currently very hindered" on the test server. It's half plate from kantons, plate boots from one of the HE's shops and lumium light plate gauntlets, sallet and targe.
About a hundred rank gap between TM and defenses, all are in the zombie head stompers range in prime. On test I still appear to need head-stompers to move TM but they're killing me fairly quickly without HEALME spam.
Stepping down to maulers or whatever it is below head stompers lets me survive but wont get TM to show up on the board.
>>Appraise your current armor setup so we can see what your hindrance is.
I'm at work now but I remember my rig as appraising at "you are currently very hindered" on the test server. It's half plate from kantons, plate boots from one of the HE's shops and lumium light plate gauntlets, sallet and targe.
WOLVERINE911
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 03:31 PM CST
I have to admit that the feeling of being able to use any mundane item just as well as everyone else, just having to work harder for it that has been my allure to DragonRealm's skill system being rather directly trashed by the "no matter how hard you train, you're now capped at a high enough hinderance to make any rationally comparable amount of ranks flat out worse" is disheartening.
I train stealth to higher ranks as a warrior mage because I don't stat focus for it, or ability focus for it, but I can still do it if I want by investing more time.
I train shield higher ranks than a paladin would need to for the same reason.
Rangers and Paladins have dealt with this scenario in the TM change over.
But now to be told my character concept is just an impractically hindering choice that ultimately makes me worse off no matter how many more ranks I train, when it is portrayed in lore and on the character image reference on the website amoung many other reasons, is, I believe, wrong.
Let me cap my hinderanece reduction 200 - 300 ranks after a paladin would, and give it a higher base hinderance even still, but don't make it so severe that my choices are "Wear lighter armor or suck"
Just my two cents, and I apologize if I'm off target here, but if that is the case, please explain it to me.
I train stealth to higher ranks as a warrior mage because I don't stat focus for it, or ability focus for it, but I can still do it if I want by investing more time.
I train shield higher ranks than a paladin would need to for the same reason.
Rangers and Paladins have dealt with this scenario in the TM change over.
But now to be told my character concept is just an impractically hindering choice that ultimately makes me worse off no matter how many more ranks I train, when it is portrayed in lore and on the character image reference on the website amoung many other reasons, is, I believe, wrong.
Let me cap my hinderanece reduction 200 - 300 ranks after a paladin would, and give it a higher base hinderance even still, but don't make it so severe that my choices are "Wear lighter armor or suck"
Just my two cents, and I apologize if I'm off target here, but if that is the case, please explain it to me.
ORBITAL303
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 05:03 PM CST
I'm really unclear on this too. I would really like some clarification because I need to decide if I'm going to switch to less hindering plate, stay in my current uberplate, or start shopping for some chain.
I always felt like WM's were supposed to feel like front line fighters, rather than glass cannons, so I always personally trained HP. I understood the niche of wanting to train chain instead if you were into stealth or something, which was in and of itself a big struggle. But now it's at least sounding like the sky is falling.
As a side note, the messaging for YS still implies it makes your armor less hindering, despite apparently not actually doing so.
- Starlear -
I always felt like WM's were supposed to feel like front line fighters, rather than glass cannons, so I always personally trained HP. I understood the niche of wanting to train chain instead if you were into stealth or something, which was in and of itself a big struggle. But now it's at least sounding like the sky is falling.
As a side note, the messaging for YS still implies it makes your armor less hindering, despite apparently not actually doing so.
- Starlear -
SHADOW7988
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 05:05 PM CST
>As a side note, the messaging for YS still implies it makes your armor less hindering, despite apparently not actually doing so.
It effectively is, and increasing your ability to reduce damage as well (or at least I believe I understand the concept of the spell well enough).
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
It effectively is, and increasing your ability to reduce damage as well (or at least I believe I understand the concept of the spell well enough).
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
ORBITAL303
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 05:06 PM CST
I mostly meant that it showed an app change before and doesn't now.
- Starlear -
- Starlear -
ORBITAL303
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 05:08 PM CST
Sorry for the double reply, but no, it isn't, if you don't get any hindrance reduction beyond 250 ranks in armor, for me at least.
- Starlear -
- Starlear -
SHADOW7988
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 05:20 PM CST
You are correct it only works for hindrance reduction if your dealing with ranks before and up to including 250.
Solid point.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Solid point.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 05:29 PM CST
Then wear less plate, or, wear lighter plate. The name of the game again is balance, and YS was unreasonable insofar as it let you reduce plate hindrance below what was intended. Now, as an armor tert (which may or may not be reasonable for warmies; I've always thought warmies should be lore tert and either survival or armor secondary, given that we're WARRIOR mages, i.e., less scholarly, but that's besides the point as it's not changing), you shouldn't don all heavy uberplate and expect zero ramifications.
In 3.0, YS boosts armor ranks improving your defenses with armor, SUF improves reflex, SW buffs evasion, and AeG will buff shield. We have a lot of defense boosters.
In 3.0, YS boosts armor ranks improving your defenses with armor, SUF improves reflex, SW buffs evasion, and AeG will buff shield. We have a lot of defense boosters.
WOLVERINE911
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 05:50 PM CST
To clarify, at least on my part, I wear a half-plate, greave, gaunt, helm set up that I had forged before crafting 3.0 specifically for low hinderance, protection was irrelevant to me, as it was for my character concept.
From what I'm reading and experiencing, regardless of the sacrifices I make with protection, unless I want TRULY garbage armor(and perhaps not even then) I wont be able to use plate as my armor with out taking a MAJOR percentile hit to my defenses.
Again, this is to explain my perspective on this, and I'm hoping for either consideration or explaination, I would be just as happy to be proven wrong as have something change, but I really don't want to sit by and watch this not even be an option for me.
From what I'm reading and experiencing, regardless of the sacrifices I make with protection, unless I want TRULY garbage armor(and perhaps not even then) I wont be able to use plate as my armor with out taking a MAJOR percentile hit to my defenses.
Again, this is to explain my perspective on this, and I'm hoping for either consideration or explaination, I would be just as happy to be proven wrong as have something change, but I really don't want to sit by and watch this not even be an option for me.
HAMBARD
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 06:06 PM CST
>>I wont be able to use plate as my armor with out taking a MAJOR percentile hit to my defenses.
I would only say that I don't think it hinders anything but evasion as a defense. Shield and Parry act independently of evasion in 3.0, so the tradeoff of more absorption for less dodging means it may be worth stance-ing for high shield, high parry, low evasion and allow the armor to do its job.
You will evade less hits, but you have multiple other avenues to prevent those hits from doing damage prior to vit loss.
I'm not sure if people have tested that out effectively or not yet, I don't have enough heavy plate ranks to attempt it at level.
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
I would only say that I don't think it hinders anything but evasion as a defense. Shield and Parry act independently of evasion in 3.0, so the tradeoff of more absorption for less dodging means it may be worth stance-ing for high shield, high parry, low evasion and allow the armor to do its job.
You will evade less hits, but you have multiple other avenues to prevent those hits from doing damage prior to vit loss.
I'm not sure if people have tested that out effectively or not yet, I don't have enough heavy plate ranks to attempt it at level.
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
ORBITAL303
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 06:22 PM CST
I should also mention that I don't mix armor types really, so I may not be seeing what other people are seeing as far as crazy hindrance. I still dodge (actual dodges, not glancing blows) relatively regularly in my full on weighted damite stuff, but I think my evasion and armor are about 50 ranks above the critters in question (DP Zealots w/ 400ish evasion/HP). But the idea of a 90% penalty to evasion makes me sad in the pants if it means i'd have effectively like, 40 evasion. I think the hindrance appraisal I have in full armor is very hindered.
- Starlear -
- Starlear -
BEVERAGEK
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 08:52 PM CST
I thought all you had to do was keep armor skill much closer to evasion, and not mix armor types in order for Heavy Plate to be more survivable as an armor tert?
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
THESAGEONE
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 09:11 PM CST
>>I thought all you had to do was keep armor skill much closer to evasion, and not mix armor types in order for Heavy Plate to be more survivable as an armor tert?
I guess that's part of the problem. Most people have no clue.
I guess that's part of the problem. Most people have no clue.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 09:12 PM CST
>>I thought all you had to do was keep armor skill much closer to evasion, and not mix armor types in order for Heavy Plate to be more survivable as an armor tert?
Screwed up thing is I get the same hindrance (very hindered) in all plate vs plate w/chain hands/head.
Screwed up thing is I get the same hindrance (very hindered) in all plate vs plate w/chain hands/head.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 09:17 PM CST
>Screwed up thing is I get the same hindrance (very hindered) in all plate vs plate w/chain hands/head.
Hinderances are ranges. It's not beyond the pall of believe that your HP accessories are little to no more hindering than your chain ones, given weight and forging methods.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
Hinderances are ranges. It's not beyond the pall of believe that your HP accessories are little to no more hindering than your chain ones, given weight and forging methods.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/03/2012 09:21 PM CST
>>Hinderances are ranges. It's not beyond the pall of believe that your HP accessories are little to no more hindering than your chain ones, given weight and forging methods.
True 'nuff. I was just surprised by the steepness of the mixing penalty and heavy plate's hindrance for tert's in general.
True 'nuff. I was just surprised by the steepness of the mixing penalty and heavy plate's hindrance for tert's in general.
DR-KODIUS
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/04/2012 09:20 PM CST
So a few things here...
Armor Terts probably shouldn't mix armor types. You're not good at using armor, so don't try to get all fancy. This is a perk for having a higher armor skillset.
Buffs do less in 3.0. This is probably affectng you more than armor hindrance. If Swirling Winds gave +250 defenses in 2.0, it is probably giving half that now. This is true for almost all Guilds that had buffs brought in line with the new caps.
Now, as for plate. The tradeoff for using plate is having a larger defensive penalty than tissue paper cloth and other lighter armors.
How effectively you can fight in HP depends on how you've trained, how light your plate armor is and other factors. If you are fighting anything weaker than you (invasions, boss monsters, PvP), you'll probably get the best mileage out of your HP armor. The defensive penalty won't factor in much because your defenses are higher than the enemy, and the added absorption will come in handy because things always have a chance to hit you.
Hunting at level, you'd probably want to land vertigo on things to remove its bite, unbalance it with tremor/TC, stance more for parry/shield which are less affected by hindrance, or backtrain a bit.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Armor Terts probably shouldn't mix armor types. You're not good at using armor, so don't try to get all fancy. This is a perk for having a higher armor skillset.
Buffs do less in 3.0. This is probably affectng you more than armor hindrance. If Swirling Winds gave +250 defenses in 2.0, it is probably giving half that now. This is true for almost all Guilds that had buffs brought in line with the new caps.
Now, as for plate. The tradeoff for using plate is having a larger defensive penalty than tissue paper cloth and other lighter armors.
How effectively you can fight in HP depends on how you've trained, how light your plate armor is and other factors. If you are fighting anything weaker than you (invasions, boss monsters, PvP), you'll probably get the best mileage out of your HP armor. The defensive penalty won't factor in much because your defenses are higher than the enemy, and the added absorption will come in handy because things always have a chance to hit you.
Hunting at level, you'd probably want to land vertigo on things to remove its bite, unbalance it with tremor/TC, stance more for parry/shield which are less affected by hindrance, or backtrain a bit.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
BEVERAGEK
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/04/2012 09:27 PM CST
>>Armor Terts probably shouldn't mix armor types.
What about just light chain torso and leather everywhere else? Or is even that going to really hamstring me defensive wise?
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
What about just light chain torso and leather everywhere else? Or is even that going to really hamstring me defensive wise?
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
DARKANGEL23
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/04/2012 09:34 PM CST
So Ive been following this thread pretty closely since this affects myself as well. Im a Moon Mage and I wear LP (Brig). And Im having a little bit of a tough time figuring out exactly whats up here so Im gonna fire away... if Im being redundant I apologize and I blame it on finals week.
1) Since I wear Brig is it that Im going to get hit more in combat at level because Im an Armor Tert and I dont work off the hinderance as well?
2) If Im getting hit is it doing more damage to me because Im Armor Tert? Or same damage just more often due to #1?
3) I brought Cloth up to level when it came out just in case.. so what is the reason I want to be wearing that rather than my stronger Brig piece?
4) If I swap over to Light Armor in 3.0 am I going to be getting hurt more or less than in the Brig? This sorta hinges on all the previous questions since Im having trouble figuring out why I would want to use something that less protecting but less hindering... Im very much getting stuck on exactly why hinderance, other than not dodging as much, is so bad.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
1) Since I wear Brig is it that Im going to get hit more in combat at level because Im an Armor Tert and I dont work off the hinderance as well?
2) If Im getting hit is it doing more damage to me because Im Armor Tert? Or same damage just more often due to #1?
3) I brought Cloth up to level when it came out just in case.. so what is the reason I want to be wearing that rather than my stronger Brig piece?
4) If I swap over to Light Armor in 3.0 am I going to be getting hurt more or less than in the Brig? This sorta hinges on all the previous questions since Im having trouble figuring out why I would want to use something that less protecting but less hindering... Im very much getting stuck on exactly why hinderance, other than not dodging as much, is so bad.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
OLSONM6
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/04/2012 10:39 PM CST
>1) Since I wear Brig is it that Im going to get hit more in combat at level because Im an Armor Tert and I dont work off the hinderance as well?
Yes.
>2) If Im getting hit is it doing more damage to me because Im Armor Tert? Or same damage just more often due to #1?
The hits will cause more damage if your armor ranks are below the offensive ranks of what you are fighting. This is more likely for an armor tert.
>3) I brought Cloth up to level when it came out just in case.. so what is the reason I want to be wearing that rather than my stronger Brig piece?
You would want to wear cloth over brig if the lower hindrance made it so that you would dodge/parry/shield block more and thus get hit less often, even if those hits do more damage.
>4) If I swap over to Light Armor in 3.0 am I going to be getting hurt more or less than in the Brig? This sorta hinges on all the previous questions since Im having trouble figuring out why I would want to use something that less protecting but less hindering... Im very much getting stuck on exactly why hinderance, other than not dodging as much, is so bad.
You will probably be getting hit less, but those hits will probably cause more damage.
Say you are overhunting fighting critter A, and wearing cloth you dodge 80% of hits, but the 20% that hit you do 20 damage. Also say that wearing brig you dodge 50% of the hits and the hits that do come through do 10 damage. In this case, you're over 100 strikes you take 400 damage in close and 500 damage in brig. So cloth is probably better.
Say instead that you're underhunting righting critter B. Wearing cloth you dodge 90% of hits, but this 10% that hit do 17 damage. Wearing brig you dodge 70% of hits and the 30% of hits do 4 damage. In this case, 100 strikes does 170 damage wearing cloth and 120 damage wearing brig. So brig is better.
Yes.
>2) If Im getting hit is it doing more damage to me because Im Armor Tert? Or same damage just more often due to #1?
The hits will cause more damage if your armor ranks are below the offensive ranks of what you are fighting. This is more likely for an armor tert.
>3) I brought Cloth up to level when it came out just in case.. so what is the reason I want to be wearing that rather than my stronger Brig piece?
You would want to wear cloth over brig if the lower hindrance made it so that you would dodge/parry/shield block more and thus get hit less often, even if those hits do more damage.
>4) If I swap over to Light Armor in 3.0 am I going to be getting hurt more or less than in the Brig? This sorta hinges on all the previous questions since Im having trouble figuring out why I would want to use something that less protecting but less hindering... Im very much getting stuck on exactly why hinderance, other than not dodging as much, is so bad.
You will probably be getting hit less, but those hits will probably cause more damage.
Say you are overhunting fighting critter A, and wearing cloth you dodge 80% of hits, but the 20% that hit you do 20 damage. Also say that wearing brig you dodge 50% of the hits and the hits that do come through do 10 damage. In this case, you're over 100 strikes you take 400 damage in close and 500 damage in brig. So cloth is probably better.
Say instead that you're underhunting righting critter B. Wearing cloth you dodge 90% of hits, but this 10% that hit do 17 damage. Wearing brig you dodge 70% of hits and the 30% of hits do 4 damage. In this case, 100 strikes does 170 damage wearing cloth and 120 damage wearing brig. So brig is better.
FIREKAST
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/05/2012 12:23 AM CST
I'm copying my post from the Combat thread with my results. I too was worried I'd have to backtrain/downgrade to a lighter armor, but found this not to be the case.
Skills/etc:
Parry: 640
Shield: 530
Evasion: 475
Stance: 100% parry, 44% shield, 44% evasion
Leather: 400+ (boosted this with Y'ntrel Sechra spell, an armor skill booster, to close the gap a bit. I have no idea how many ranks this actually grants though)
Plate: 540
Defending: 595
Stats:
Strength : 60 Reflex : 60
Agility : 60 Charisma : 60
Discipline : 60 Wisdom : 60
Intelligence : 60 Stamina : 60
Armor:
All of your armor:
some damite full plate embellished with gold leaf around the edges
an armet
some light plate gauntlets
a lumium targe forged into the shape of a dartboard
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently highly hindered and your stealth is highly hindered.
All of your armor:
a coarse sealed cowl
some coarse shalswar-hide gloves
some perfect firecat-skin leathers
a lumium targe forged into the shape of a dartboard
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently insignificantly hindered and your stealth is lightly hindered.
Test:
Dancing with 4 juvie armadillos. No buffs (except for YS with the leather).
It took 9 minutes, 47 seconds to die from vitality loss while wearing the leather armor. I was hit a total of 60 times.
It took 27 minutes, 6 seconds to die from a destroyed chest with 29% vitality left while wearing the plate armor. I was hit a total of 217 times.
Skills/etc:
Parry: 640
Shield: 530
Evasion: 475
Stance: 100% parry, 44% shield, 44% evasion
Leather: 400+ (boosted this with Y'ntrel Sechra spell, an armor skill booster, to close the gap a bit. I have no idea how many ranks this actually grants though)
Plate: 540
Defending: 595
Stats:
Strength : 60 Reflex : 60
Agility : 60 Charisma : 60
Discipline : 60 Wisdom : 60
Intelligence : 60 Stamina : 60
Armor:
All of your armor:
some damite full plate embellished with gold leaf around the edges
an armet
some light plate gauntlets
a lumium targe forged into the shape of a dartboard
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently highly hindered and your stealth is highly hindered.
All of your armor:
a coarse sealed cowl
some coarse shalswar-hide gloves
some perfect firecat-skin leathers
a lumium targe forged into the shape of a dartboard
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently insignificantly hindered and your stealth is lightly hindered.
Test:
Dancing with 4 juvie armadillos. No buffs (except for YS with the leather).
It took 9 minutes, 47 seconds to die from vitality loss while wearing the leather armor. I was hit a total of 60 times.
It took 27 minutes, 6 seconds to die from a destroyed chest with 29% vitality left while wearing the plate armor. I was hit a total of 217 times.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/05/2012 12:47 AM CST
>>What about just light chain torso and leather everywhere else? Or is even that going to really hamstring me defensive wise?
I have a Cleric wearing chain torso and plate greaves/helm, and he's doing decent. I think tertiary armor works alright if you're only mixing two armor types and supplement with a buff or two.
I have a Cleric wearing chain torso and plate greaves/helm, and he's doing decent. I think tertiary armor works alright if you're only mixing two armor types and supplement with a buff or two.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/05/2012 12:27 PM CST
So, is some light lumium full plate w/lumium light plate accessories what I want to shoot for changing my plate to? Or is there something that's better for hindrance than lumium and the 'light plate' templates?
GERSTEINJ2
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/05/2012 12:41 PM CST
>>Armor Terts probably shouldn't mix armor types.
um... i mix what used to be Light chain with leather on virtually most of my leather wearers.
Leather body armor, and Chain on head and hands on both thieves, necro.
My WM is in all what used to be HC, my moon mages vary- 1 in bone, 3 of them in LC, 1 in leather with chain peripheals, 1 in cloth.
Bard- chain.
cleric what used to be HC.
I haven't really noticed anything detrimental for my necro for mixing the two.
nor my thief when I've tested in "test", although my necro has more ranks in both armors and shield.
On the other hand, my WM isn't much of a stealther.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
um... i mix what used to be Light chain with leather on virtually most of my leather wearers.
Leather body armor, and Chain on head and hands on both thieves, necro.
My WM is in all what used to be HC, my moon mages vary- 1 in bone, 3 of them in LC, 1 in leather with chain peripheals, 1 in cloth.
Bard- chain.
cleric what used to be HC.
I haven't really noticed anything detrimental for my necro for mixing the two.
nor my thief when I've tested in "test", although my necro has more ranks in both armors and shield.
On the other hand, my WM isn't much of a stealther.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
BRYCOLE83
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/05/2012 04:16 PM CST
>>So, is some light lumium full plate w/lumium light plate accessories what I want to shoot for changing my plate to? Or is there something that's better for hindrance than lumium and the 'light plate' templates?
Here is a covellite set I forged up. It's 3.0 density so it should have the exact same hindrance stats as lumium. Far cheaper too. It has been lightened and tempered.
> app plate careful
The full plate is heavy plate.
The plate looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
right leg
left leg
chest
abdomen
back
You feel certain that some light covellite full plate appears to impose high (9/15) maneuvering hindrance and insane (15/15) stealth hindrance, offering:
very good (6/15) protection and very high (10/18) damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high (7/15) protection and very high (10/18) damage absorption for slice attacks.
good (5/15) protection and very high (10/18) damage absorption for impact attacks.
very good (6/15) protection and great (11/18) damage absorption for fire attacks.
very good (6/15) protection and great (11/18) damage absorption for cold attacks.
low (2/15) protection and low (3/18) damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing some light covellite full plate you could expect your maneuvering to be highly hindered and your stealth to be insanely hindered.
You are certain that the full plate is nearly impervious to damage (17/18), and are in pristine condition (98-100%).
The full plate is made with metal.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a quality of 96, placing it at 'very pure' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a hardness of 35, placing it at 'somewhat soft' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a durability of 80, placing it at 'great durability' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a workability of 65, placing it at 'not hard to work with' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has an electrical resistance of 25, placing it at 'an exceptional conductor of electricity' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a thermal resistance of 85, placing it at 'poor at transfering heat and cold' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a physical resistance of 80, placing it at 'exceptionally good at repelling physical blows' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the full plate weighs exactly 270 stones.
You are certain that the full plate is worth exactly 20210 kronars.
Roundtime: 16 seconds.
> ana plate
You thoroughly analyze the full plate, revealing some of its secrets.
These appear to be a type of finished metal plate armor that are masterfully-crafted.
The plate are a complicated piece to make.
It was made by someone with abilities close to your own skill.
About 100 volume of metal was used in this item's construction.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
Here is a covellite set I forged up. It's 3.0 density so it should have the exact same hindrance stats as lumium. Far cheaper too. It has been lightened and tempered.
> app plate careful
The full plate is heavy plate.
The plate looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
right leg
left leg
chest
abdomen
back
You feel certain that some light covellite full plate appears to impose high (9/15) maneuvering hindrance and insane (15/15) stealth hindrance, offering:
very good (6/15) protection and very high (10/18) damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high (7/15) protection and very high (10/18) damage absorption for slice attacks.
good (5/15) protection and very high (10/18) damage absorption for impact attacks.
very good (6/15) protection and great (11/18) damage absorption for fire attacks.
very good (6/15) protection and great (11/18) damage absorption for cold attacks.
low (2/15) protection and low (3/18) damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing some light covellite full plate you could expect your maneuvering to be highly hindered and your stealth to be insanely hindered.
You are certain that the full plate is nearly impervious to damage (17/18), and are in pristine condition (98-100%).
The full plate is made with metal.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a quality of 96, placing it at 'very pure' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a hardness of 35, placing it at 'somewhat soft' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a durability of 80, placing it at 'great durability' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a workability of 65, placing it at 'not hard to work with' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has an electrical resistance of 25, placing it at 'an exceptional conductor of electricity' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a thermal resistance of 85, placing it at 'poor at transfering heat and cold' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the metal in the full plate has a physical resistance of 80, placing it at 'exceptionally good at repelling physical blows' on the official Trader's Scale.
You are certain that the full plate weighs exactly 270 stones.
You are certain that the full plate is worth exactly 20210 kronars.
Roundtime: 16 seconds.
> ana plate
You thoroughly analyze the full plate, revealing some of its secrets.
These appear to be a type of finished metal plate armor that are masterfully-crafted.
The plate are a complicated piece to make.
It was made by someone with abilities close to your own skill.
About 100 volume of metal was used in this item's construction.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
FIREKAST
Re: HP for Warrior Mages
12/05/2012 06:40 PM CST
I have a suit of light lumium stuff. Doing better in my heavy damite.
