I would have expected flight to boost athletics now.

And it's kinda harsh but thieves really aren't a priority now. It sucks to see every other guild (except traders) get new toys, but they are all on a unified backbone system, so they all have to be managed and fixed. Thieves didn't get the luxury of having a GM rewrite them from the ground up like barbs, unfortunately.

They will be tweaked and adjusted I expect, but will probably wait for a more full redo of things in 2013. As is they are mostly ok.

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Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.

>Easy now... Rangers

Take every chance to crap and be emo about things are really don't matter to me any more since you're just going to trot out the same tired list of things that's been going around for months. If rangers can't see how they're benefiting from the changes, they need to reroll as a paladin or something.

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Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.

Wrong place for this discussion. The best place is probably nowhere.

Let's focus on DR3 issues on these forums for now, it helps us stay organized and keep things working.

--

"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

>>Wrong place for this discussion. The best place is probably nowhere.
Let's focus on DR3 issues on these forums for now>>

I'm rather sad that you don't recognize this as being part of 3.0.

Let me point out the obvious, and rephrase the question.

Darken boosted hiding.
Dampen boosted stalking.

3.0 Hiding and stalking got combined.

So therefore - what? which one to use?


And I'll give a stab for an answer -
it goes to a matter of playability. I haven't checked the concentration required for both <i'm sure its on epedia somewhere>, but for now I'd say pick whichever one uses the least concentration.



An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>

My idea would be

Dampen: Stealth Booster.

Darken: The area darkens considerably for sentient creatures in the room. While this khri is active the Thief 'pulses' against all those engaged with her committing a mental contest against defenders. At minimum the effect will blur their vision, penalizing their defenses and perception slightly. At higher levels of effects, the defender perception and ability to evade the thieves attacks are penalized more so, up to potentially 'loosing track' of the thief when they go to attack (incurring 3-4 seconds of rt but no attack. This has diminishing returns and cannot happen back to back. Notably this only comes into effect when the contest goes overwhelmingly in the thieves favor and can reset every pulse). Defaults to a pulse every 30 or so seconds, effects of which hinder an enemy between 5 and 15 seconds based off contest success.

Skulk: Per Current. Darken Pulses occur more quickly (every 20 seconds or so).

Sorry not sure if it was explicitly stated, your not really darkening the room, its a mental contest. Your shrouding their sight, similar to kuri(a)jistu. Basically your focus and meditation is disrupting their internal 'focus' which causes them to have issues focusing and even causing the details of the room to bleed out (ergo making it 'darker'). The idea would only attack this engaged with you, its not changing the room in any way to bystanders.

>>Khri is not ninjutsu. Or magic. It's strictly internal self. No external effects.

Silence most definitely has an external effect. Just because you think they're all internal (and to be fair most of them are) doesn't mean you should throw around statements like that.

Also instead of just trying to tear down the idea with a "No" his idea can very easily be fit into the "No external effects" model you've got in your brain by changing from a area debuff to a boost (essentially the exact same thing).

Now I personally don't care for it because we already have abilities that a) boost stealth b) boost evasion c) add roundtime to other people, but that doesn't mean I'm going to just stonewall the guy. I'd rather see something like this worked into an re-active/ongoing dirt ambush, something that instead of having to actively try to screen/sight someone just automatically tosses dirt with similar effects for an ongoing period of time.

One final note too, I rarely find the loudest voice to be correct and you seem to just be screaming "NO" all over the thief folders Krooner. Less negativity and more ingenuity would be a lot better.

>>As far as I know, khri are all explicitly internal things.

Silence description from the guild leader - "Sometimes you just don't want to be seen. While this won't make it impossible, it'll make it so that others' eyes will just glide right over you if they aren't looking hard. It has the end effect of making you invisible, although you really aren't."

Making it "so that others' eyes will just glide right over you" is pretty close to what he was describing. My main point was that people should focus LESS on fluff and more on mechanics. It's better to start with a great idea and make it fit the fluff, than to be constrained by the fluff when thinking about mechanics.

>>It sounds like you're talking about ambush screen, though, so you do kinda have it already at least!

After reading this I'm reasonably sure you didn't actually read my post.

>>With Silence, you're doing something to yourself that causes people to not see you.

>>You're not doing something to other people to not make them see you.

Mechanically it's exactly the same thing, the difference is pure fluff.

I'm sorry I guess its splitting hairs, but Silence obviously has an effect on other people. Either you are developing predator like invisibility (which I doubt) or its a mental focus which is telling the rest of the world "ignore me". Similar to Obfuscate from Vampire the Requiem/Masquerade. While its nature works off the recipients passive mentality, its still having an outward effect. If you can explain any way someones internal focus could make me not see them in plain sight otherwise, I would be welcome to hearing it, otherwise there are cases where Khri are not strictly 'internal'.

>>I'm rather sad that you don't recognize this as being part of 3.0.

Context is everything. I was replying to the Thieves vs Rangers part of the thread.

>>can a GM comment on khri in general, in the 3.0 environment? If two khri boosted hiding and stalking, in 3.0 will both continue to boost stealth? Will they stack? Will they overwrite?

I'm going to take a look at them and convert one of them into something else. Not sure what yet. I'll let you know though.

>>Internal vs External

Guys this forum is for 3.0-specific issues. The nature of Khri is interesting but it's not something we need to focus on when discussing DR3 things.

--

"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

>>can a GM comment on khri in general, in the 3.0 environment? If two khri boosted hiding and stalking, in 3.0 will both continue to boost stealth? Will they stack? Will they overwrite?

>>I'm going to take a look at them and convert one of them into something else. Not sure what yet. I'll let you know though.

Any update on this? Before 3.0 release or after at this point?

~Minstrel Ascot, Bladesinger of M'riss

The current thought is to turn it into a reduction of total stealth hindrance for the armors that would affect your stealth actions. It should be done before release if we go this route, so won't affect any combos. Thoughts?

AGM Ricinus
Dev Systems
Cleric Advocate

>The current thought is to turn it into a reduction of total stealth hindrance for the armors that would affect your stealth actions. It should be done before release if we go this route, so won't affect any combos. Thoughts?

I'm a fan! Are we talking working off the total penalty?

>The current thought is to turn it into a reduction of total stealth hindrance for the armors that would affect your stealth actions. It should be done before release if we go this route, so won't affect any combos. Thoughts?

Oh yeah, I like it a lot.

>a reduction of total stealth hindrance for the armors that would affect your stealth actions.

Does that mean that some armors don't? Like metal armors adding extra stealth hinderance because of the noise they make when they more or something? Hard to be stealth when someone can hear you coming: clang, clang, clang...

Ok, I've got a testable version of Dampen up and running on the Test server. let me know what you think of it in application.

AGM Ricinus
Dev Systems
Cleric Advocate

Im playing with it in test, I've tried suits of every armor class, light, chain, brig, plate and about a dozen mixed combinations with 2 or 3 armor types, but I'm completely unable to discern any benefit from using it.

For a more practical test, I went into combat and did a lot of hiding again really not able to notice any difference.

Not saying that there isn't one somewhere, but certainly nothing that I could prove.

>>I ran up to Dirge and bought some Massive Plate Armor, still couldn't see any difference in the appraisal for hindrance.

Well, the difference will show up in appraisals if it happens to be enough to knock it down a level. You will only see it on the line that tallies your entire armor setup, though, and it is only a boost to stealth hindrance.

AGM Ricinus
Dev Systems
Cleric Advocate

Hmm, I find it strange no one else is noticing a difference.

All of your armor:

some thick leathers
a metal chain mask
a metal targe


The thick leathers are light armor.

The leathers look like they offer protection for the following areas:
...
You feel certain that some thick leathers appear to impose high maneuvering hindrance and fair stealth hindrance, offering:
...
If you were only wearing some thick leathers your maneuvering would be insignificantly hindered and your stealth would be insignificantly hindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered and your stealth is lightly hindered.
...
Roundtime: 8 seconds.

>khri start damp
Focusing your mind, you attempt to attune your senses to even your most minor movements. You quickly feel more comfortable with your ability to control your motions to prevent detection.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

>ap leath
The thick leathers are light armor.
...
You feel certain that some thick leathers appear to impose high maneuvering hindrance and fair stealth hindrance, offering:
...
If you were only wearing some thick leathers your maneuvering would be insignificantly hindered and your stealth would be insignificantly hindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered and your stealth is insignificantly hindered.
...
Roundtime: 8 seconds.

Wearing the huge damite armor set I went from insane to overwhelming.

That particular test was done with roughly half the capped bonus that can be achieved. Please keep in mind I added this ability in as a test balloon not as a final solution. While discussing the idea of a thing can be useful, I figured I'd whip a version of it out to play with as well. Feel free to continue to discuss other possibilities or ideas. This particular version does work however, and is tied into core stealth so that every stealth check that evaluates armor will be affected by it.

AGM Ricinus
Dev Systems
Cleric Advocate

>>Honestly, I'd rather have a damage reduction ability than armor stealth hinderance reduction.

Me too. Once there has been another copy I'll try testing dampen again with my new lumium LP/HP setup and see if it does anything.