Just a thought;
One of the functions of RoC in 2.0 was removing our Transcendental spells. Since we now have the ability to release spells whenever we want, is there some additional function/feature that can be added to RoC? Maybe with enough mana it masks the appearance of a Transcendental spell?
Not sure if that makes a lot of sense though, given the magic is physically changing us. Just a thought though; RoC may need a spot of love for 3.0.
JHALIASCLERIC
RAIST
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/15/2012 06:02 PM CST
>Just a thought though; RoC may need a spot of love for 3.0.
Keep in mind that would mean an increase in spell slot cost, most likely.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Keep in mind that would mean an increase in spell slot cost, most likely.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/15/2012 06:18 PM CST
Absolutely; I like the idea of spells gaining increased functionality with increased spell slot cost. If RoC at it's base form only protects you in justice zones, when upgraded it hides you from Moonies/Clerics, upgraded further... Something neater/newer? Just spitballing here. It's just that the spell is= losing one of its functional utilities, and while we still have that function (as does everyone! and rightfully and usefully so!), it strikes me as a good point to entertain other possible functions being added to the spell.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/15/2012 07:01 PM CST
>>Keep in mind that would mean an increase in spell slot cost, most likely.
It matters. As it stands, RoC's "remove transcendental necromancy" aspect is redundant, because we can just do "release ::trans spell name here::" instead, so who knows if that should even count toward anything.
Then again, IMO Armifer should probably just poach whatever code Raesh used that prevents Bards from releasing those ritual spells and make RoC required to get rid of trans spells, but I'm a jerk that way.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
It matters. As it stands, RoC's "remove transcendental necromancy" aspect is redundant, because we can just do "release ::trans spell name here::" instead, so who knows if that should even count toward anything.
Then again, IMO Armifer should probably just poach whatever code Raesh used that prevents Bards from releasing those ritual spells and make RoC required to get rid of trans spells, but I'm a jerk that way.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/16/2012 01:33 PM CST
Since we can't use empaths at all in 3.0, RoC is a spell that an out and proud necromancer would never really use. Unless it trains something, I don't see myself ever casting it again. So if there's some way to add functionality to it, I fully support that.
Perhaps keeping RoC up at sufficient mana could speed up DO drain? It could be difficult to do... Since HL necros will pretty much be forced to accrue significantly more DO in 3.0, adding a HL perk to RoC would be very nice.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
Perhaps keeping RoC up at sufficient mana could speed up DO drain? It could be difficult to do... Since HL necros will pretty much be forced to accrue significantly more DO in 3.0, adding a HL perk to RoC would be very nice.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
BRYCOLE83
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/16/2012 02:56 PM CST
>> Perhaps keeping RoC up at sufficient mana could speed up DO drain? It could be difficult to do... Since HL necros will pretty much be forced to accrue significantly more DO in 3.0, adding a HL perk to RoC would be very nice.
Great idea. Maybe even it could be converted to temporarily lower SO levels (along with DO).... or maybe that would just be another spell.
Great idea. Maybe even it could be converted to temporarily lower SO levels (along with DO).... or maybe that would just be another spell.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/16/2012 08:26 PM CST
I don't think HL Necromancers are going to be earning more DO than low level Necros?
RoC in 3.0 is a superb trainer of Utility, which means it's going to be very useful for improving CFB, NR, QE, EotB, Devour and CF, spells that are otherwise (aside from NR) probably kind of a drag to use for training of Utility. It also still prevents our accusation timer from running up in town, so, proud or not, Necromancers should still be considering RoC a useful tool in their repertoire, ESPECIALLY considering as a cyclic, you can now have it up and use TM or Debil spells.
RoC in 3.0 is a superb trainer of Utility, which means it's going to be very useful for improving CFB, NR, QE, EotB, Devour and CF, spells that are otherwise (aside from NR) probably kind of a drag to use for training of Utility. It also still prevents our accusation timer from running up in town, so, proud or not, Necromancers should still be considering RoC a useful tool in their repertoire, ESPECIALLY considering as a cyclic, you can now have it up and use TM or Debil spells.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/16/2012 08:49 PM CST
<<Since we can't use empaths at all in 3.0, RoC is a spell that an out and proud necromancer would never really use. Unless it trains something,>>
i didn't use it much in 2.0. In 3.0 it trains utility very well.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
BLUESUEDESHOES
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/16/2012 09:14 PM CST
RoC has been the only spell I've used for training PM and Harness in 2.0 since I learned it. Easy to use and keep magics locked at all times. I'm hoping it will be just as useful in 3.0.
Elvis has left the building.
Elvis has left the building.
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/16/2012 10:33 PM CST
>I don't think HL Necromancers are going to be earning more DO than low level Necros?
HL necros have higher base DO, so the rate at which DO drains may become a problem. Glad the spell trains well. I'd be happy for it to do more. Accusation timer means nothing to me since I keep my title up and probably have higher than average SO on any given day. I like the idea of something that can help speed up DO drain, which is my more immediate concern.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
HL necros have higher base DO, so the rate at which DO drains may become a problem. Glad the spell trains well. I'd be happy for it to do more. Accusation timer means nothing to me since I keep my title up and probably have higher than average SO on any given day. I like the idea of something that can help speed up DO drain, which is my more immediate concern.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 01:29 AM CST
Current SO drain is designed very deliberately, which is why it has been tweaked multiple times already. If they created a spell that sped up SO drain, they might slow down default gain to accommodate.
FELONIOUSPI
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 02:56 PM CST
>ESPECIALLY considering as a cyclic, you can now have it up and use TM or Debil spells.
Dude , what's the point of covering your SO AND casting BLB or VOD on a PC ? that's insanely un-useful
Or doing the same to a mob ?
TEVESHSZAT
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 03:25 PM CST
>>Necromancers should still be considering RoC a useful tool in their repertoire, ESPECIALLY considering as a cyclic, you can now have it up and use TM or Debil spells.
That isn't how RoC works.
You're not able to offset casting spells that cause social outrage by having RoC up. RoC prevents passive suspicion, not active terrorizing.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
That isn't how RoC works.
You're not able to offset casting spells that cause social outrage by having RoC up. RoC prevents passive suspicion, not active terrorizing.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 05:49 PM CST
Last I checked I can cast STRA in a justice zone and no SO will come of it; I can keep RoC up in order to help prevent successful accusations.
RoC has improved functionality now; you can cast a scroll spell or two while maintaining the facade of being a non-Necromancer. Furthermore, if I'm hunting with a Moonmage, I can replace OBF without having to drop RoC.
RoC has improved functionality now; you can cast a scroll spell or two while maintaining the facade of being a non-Necromancer. Furthermore, if I'm hunting with a Moonmage, I can replace OBF without having to drop RoC.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 07:28 PM CST
>>Last I checked I can cast STRA in a justice zone and no SO will come of it
That's because STRA isn't a spell that shows visible Necromancy. It has nothing to do with RoC.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
That's because STRA isn't a spell that shows visible Necromancy. It has nothing to do with RoC.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
FELONIOUSPI
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 08:11 PM CST
It generally goes without saying that ROC is more for your "under the radar" Necromancers. Was it designed to be useful for the perverse , pvp , play style? Unless it's not performing it's actual function effectively in 3.0 , I don't think there is a problem with it.
FELONIOUSPI
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 08:15 PM CST
Sorry for the double post . To be fair , after looking at the simu site description , it does appear to be losing a mentionable function .
>Finally, the spell matrix is designed to react poorly to the presence of Transcendental Necromancy spells, to aid in the magician's display of contrition. While in use, the Rite of Contrition will dispel any active transcendental mutation.
>Finally, the spell matrix is designed to react poorly to the presence of Transcendental Necromancy spells, to aid in the magician's display of contrition. While in use, the Rite of Contrition will dispel any active transcendental mutation.
BRYCOLE83
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 08:16 PM CST
What exactly does it do in 3.0 now?
It's a cyclic spell that costs 1 slot. That means it should do "2 things" since cyclic have a -1 spell slot cost.
It's a cyclic spell that costs 1 slot. That means it should do "2 things" since cyclic have a -1 spell slot cost.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 08:26 PM CST
Bear in mind Moongate also does only one thing and there's no one seriously talking about making it do more.
The "one function per slot" is a good rule of thumb, but it's not intended to be an iron-clad. Ultimately a spell costs what we consider it to be worth.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
The "one function per slot" is a good rule of thumb, but it's not intended to be an iron-clad. Ultimately a spell costs what we consider it to be worth.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 10:22 PM CST
>That's because STRA isn't a spell that shows visible Necromancy. It has nothing to do with RoC.
I think you're misunderstanding my point; if you want to be in town with RoC up, you can cast (AP) spells and leave RoC up. That's all I'm saying. RoC being cyclical is more useful than RoC as held mana, because it doesn't mean no magic training if you're so inclined to do so around other people. I know I've been annoyed when sitting in classes and being forced to leave RoC up and train non-magics because a Moonie or Cleric popped in.
I think you're misunderstanding my point; if you want to be in town with RoC up, you can cast (AP) spells and leave RoC up. That's all I'm saying. RoC being cyclical is more useful than RoC as held mana, because it doesn't mean no magic training if you're so inclined to do so around other people. I know I've been annoyed when sitting in classes and being forced to leave RoC up and train non-magics because a Moonie or Cleric popped in.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 10:23 PM CST
Sorry for double;
If it's only a single spell slot and there's nothing else on the table for it, then oh well.
If it's only a single spell slot and there's nothing else on the table for it, then oh well.
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/17/2012 11:20 PM CST
>Unless it's not performing it's actual function effectively in 3.0 , I don't think there is a problem with it.
I don't think there's a problem with it, I just will no longer have any reason to use it in 3.0 beyond training if it teaches well at higher ranks. I'd like it to do more if possible.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
I don't think there's a problem with it, I just will no longer have any reason to use it in 3.0 beyond training if it teaches well at higher ranks. I'd like it to do more if possible.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
FELONIOUSPI
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/18/2012 09:44 AM CST
>I don't think there's a problem with it, I just will no longer have any reason to use it in 3.0 beyond training if it teaches well at higher ranks.
I mean , I don't think it was designed to be useful for us playing on the perverse side even in 2.0. I never had reason to use it in 2.0 either. Except training of course.
I mean , I don't think it was designed to be useful for us playing on the perverse side even in 2.0. I never had reason to use it in 2.0 either. Except training of course.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: RoC in 3.0
12/18/2012 09:57 AM CST
>I mean , I don't think it was designed to be useful for us playing on the perverse side even in 2.0. I never had reason to use it in 2.0 either. Except training of course.
It still prevents the 'in justice zone timer' from ticking, so if you have business to attend to in justice zones, it's useful. And not every justice zone has a high concentration of people; I wager there are a few people in Theren who know my Necromancer, but I doubt there are many in the Crossing, probably none in Shard, and almost certainly none in Hib. ::shrug:: YMMV.
It still prevents the 'in justice zone timer' from ticking, so if you have business to attend to in justice zones, it's useful. And not every justice zone has a high concentration of people; I wager there are a few people in Theren who know my Necromancer, but I doubt there are many in the Crossing, probably none in Shard, and almost certainly none in Hib. ::shrug:: YMMV.
