I did some testing with backstab, and no experience was being awarded. Hiding and stalking were teaching zero stealth. This was against DP zealots which are above my level.
TALBOT3
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 03:12 PM CST
I made some tweaks last night to make stealth experience require more of a challenge than musk hogs at 800 ranks. Looking at your skills, you should be learning okay against zealots if you're hiding/stalking against them at melee. Could you log into Test and CHATTER to help me see what's going wrong?
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
TALBOT3
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 04:47 PM CST
Socharis,
Thanks for taking a look at this. Ambushing body parts is now teaching BS very well. But there may still be an issue with the backstab verb.
In zealots, I can move mindstates after a handful of ambushes, but if I use the backstab verb, it will not go past dabbling. Stealth will move slowly, but I know I outclass their perception. One strange thing is that hiding will teach stealth, but stalking will not.
In celps, ambushing moves both stealth and backstab extremely well. Both hiding and stalking teach stealth.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 04:52 PM CST
>>One strange thing is that hiding will teach stealth, but stalking will not.
Yeah, in general stalking a target is slightly easier than hiding from it (it doesn't know you're there, after all), so you learn a bit less.
After we chatted most recently I think the backstab exp is better now.
In general, exp will probably be better than it is in Prime so long as you're against something that challenges your stealth skills. Roughly (But not necessarily exactly) the same ranges as combat.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
Yeah, in general stalking a target is slightly easier than hiding from it (it doesn't know you're there, after all), so you learn a bit less.
After we chatted most recently I think the backstab exp is better now.
In general, exp will probably be better than it is in Prime so long as you're against something that challenges your stealth skills. Roughly (But not necessarily exactly) the same ranges as combat.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 05:08 PM CST
Does stalking confer a bonus to ambushing over just being hidden?
NINEVAH1
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 05:23 PM CST
It seems the exp from the Backstab verb is still bad. Skills and info real quick: 622 BS, 725 stealth, hunting splitters. My khri that are up if it matters
You are under the influence of the Elusion meditation, which should last around 8 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Hasten meditation, which should last around 9 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Dampen meditation, which should last around 13 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Darken meditation, which should last around 13 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Focus meditation, which should last around 13 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Strike meditation, which should last around 13 roisaen.
Just a small test sample, but I killed 4 splitters back to back each taking 3-4 strikes to kill after that I was only at 2/34. It seemed to take ~5 strikes to get a single mind level, and it did get up to 3/34, but pulsed and I could not get it back up before I ran out of critters. After Ricinus first made the changes, and I tested it was learning much better than this. I jumped in to test the new stealth exp changes (which seems fine to me) and noticed BS was learning much slower using the Backstab verb now.
P.S. What happened to the HEALME verb? I miss it.
You are under the influence of the Elusion meditation, which should last around 8 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Hasten meditation, which should last around 9 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Dampen meditation, which should last around 13 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Darken meditation, which should last around 13 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Focus meditation, which should last around 13 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Strike meditation, which should last around 13 roisaen.
Just a small test sample, but I killed 4 splitters back to back each taking 3-4 strikes to kill after that I was only at 2/34. It seemed to take ~5 strikes to get a single mind level, and it did get up to 3/34, but pulsed and I could not get it back up before I ran out of critters. After Ricinus first made the changes, and I tested it was learning much better than this. I jumped in to test the new stealth exp changes (which seems fine to me) and noticed BS was learning much slower using the Backstab verb now.
P.S. What happened to the HEALME verb? I miss it.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 05:29 PM CST
>>P.S. What happened to the HEALME verb? I miss it.
Turned it off because having it on makes it hard to get feedback on how combat actually is - Makes it easy to forget danger, etc.
>>Backstab exp slow
I'll take a look at it later to see what's up. You shouldn't be training stealth just fine but backstab slow, with that separation of ranks.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
Turned it off because having it on makes it hard to get feedback on how combat actually is - Makes it easy to forget danger, etc.
>>Backstab exp slow
I'll take a look at it later to see what's up. You shouldn't be training stealth just fine but backstab slow, with that separation of ranks.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
NINEVAH1
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 05:39 PM CST
>>I'll take a look at it later to see what's up. You shouldn't be training stealth just fine but backstab slow, with that separation of ranks.
Thanks, and kinda how I felt too. After the first 4 splitters, stealth was sitting at 10/34 using slip stalk between each attack. I did another round of 4 in quick succession and with stealth starting at 7/34, BS at 0/34 (took forever to get 4 on me again) I ended at 19/34 in stealth and 3/34 in BS with again averaging 3-4 strikes per kill except for one one-shot kill.
Thanks, and kinda how I felt too. After the first 4 splitters, stealth was sitting at 10/34 using slip stalk between each attack. I did another round of 4 in quick succession and with stealth starting at 7/34, BS at 0/34 (took forever to get 4 on me again) I ended at 19/34 in stealth and 3/34 in BS with again averaging 3-4 strikes per kill except for one one-shot kill.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 06:02 PM CST
You should also consider that splitters are more or less soft capping on you now for stealth, too. You might try something harder.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
NINEVAH1
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 06:05 PM CST
Is BS exp tied to stealth exp? I have had zero problems learning stealth in Prime and Test in splitters (and Assassins are still out of my league). BS using the BACKSTAB verb is the only thing that is moving slowly.
NINEVAH1
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 06:08 PM CST
Double post but meant to add 622 BS for splitters seems to be in range for them. I don't know their new cap in 3.0 but it's 750 in Prime. I might be getting close to soft cap for them, but I don't believe it should be moving as slow as it is.
I haven't tested ambushing to train BS in Test yet, but going to try soon. If you are in Test I'll give a shout in chat.
I haven't tested ambushing to train BS in Test yet, but going to try soon. If you are in Test I'll give a shout in chat.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 06:10 PM CST
I'm mostly commenting on your stealth sitting at 10/34 while you're hunting, that seems rather low compared to if you stealthing vs something harder. Backstab experience isn't directly tied to stealth experience.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
GRIM45
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 06:11 PM CST
>>You should also consider that splitters are more or less soft capping on you now for stealth [700's], too. You might try something harder.
Are you sure you this is correct for head-splitters? That's where I am for maulers right now.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Are you sure you this is correct for head-splitters? That's where I am for maulers right now.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
NINEVAH1
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 06:16 PM CST
>> Backstab experience isn't directly tied to stealth experience.
K just got me confused with the statement.
As response to the stealth soft cap, I can lock stealth fairly quickly, and still have to use buffs to remain hidden most the time. When compared to BS training stealth is a breeze.
K just got me confused with the statement.
As response to the stealth soft cap, I can lock stealth fairly quickly, and still have to use buffs to remain hidden most the time. When compared to BS training stealth is a breeze.
TALEEK
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 06:30 PM CST
While this issue is getting around. I'll poke the weapon EXP while training BS still stinks.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 06:36 PM CST
>>As response to the stealth soft cap, I can lock stealth fairly quickly, and still have to use buffs to remain hidden most the time. When compared to BS training stealth is a breeze.
Ahh, ok. I was mostly going off your 10/34. I'll take a look at backstab exp tonight.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
Ahh, ok. I was mostly going off your 10/34. I'll take a look at backstab exp tonight.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
NINEVAH1
Re: Stealth and Backstab experience
01/15/2013 06:49 PM CST
>>Ahh, ok. I was mostly going off your 10/34. I'll take a look at backstab exp tonight.
Yea I was just throwing that out for comparison between the two skills since you had said something about it. With pretty much the same amount of actions for both it seems I'm learning stealth 3x quicker than BS.
Tested using just ambush and it seems I'm getting 1 mind state per 3 actions compared to 1 per 5 actions with the Backstab verb. Also something I noticed that was odd.
HR> backstab
You slip out of concealment and backstab a zombie head-splitter!
< You thrust a balanced stiletto at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter fails to dodge.
H> jab head
You masterfully position yourself to strike at the zombie head-splitter's head.
You leap out of hiding and ambush a zombie head-splitter, catching it by surprise.
< You Backstab at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter dodges.
I always get <you thrust> when I use backstab, and always get <you Backstab> when I ambush. I don't know if this is intended, or maybe part of the problem, but thought I'd throw it out there.
Yea I was just throwing that out for comparison between the two skills since you had said something about it. With pretty much the same amount of actions for both it seems I'm learning stealth 3x quicker than BS.
Tested using just ambush and it seems I'm getting 1 mind state per 3 actions compared to 1 per 5 actions with the Backstab verb. Also something I noticed that was odd.
HR> backstab
You slip out of concealment and backstab a zombie head-splitter!
< You thrust a balanced stiletto at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter fails to dodge.
H> jab head
You masterfully position yourself to strike at the zombie head-splitter's head.
You leap out of hiding and ambush a zombie head-splitter, catching it by surprise.
< You Backstab at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter dodges.
I always get <you thrust> when I use backstab, and always get <you Backstab> when I ambush. I don't know if this is intended, or maybe part of the problem, but thought I'd throw it out there.
