Previous
Someone comes up with a good idea and everyone wants to twist it to make sense for whatever they want. Everyone is making sense, so it really doesn't matter which way it goes.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
VEE-REX
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Hangback
12/31/2012 08:27 PM CST
>>Someone comes up with a good idea and everyone wants to twist it to make sense for whatever they want.
Not everyone! I said I wanted everyone to have it and let it be circle based. It's PVE?
But in all honesty, this is one of the more rational and non-emotional flaming ball of GvG conversations I've seen in awhile.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
Not everyone! I said I wanted everyone to have it and let it be circle based. It's PVE?
But in all honesty, this is one of the more rational and non-emotional flaming ball of GvG conversations I've seen in awhile.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Hangback
12/31/2012 09:19 PM CST
I'm just wondering why people are trying to make things so hard. Why couldn't it just be based off defending skill... I've said it before and I'll say it again that everybody should have defending skill in range with what they are hunting. If they don't then they deserve to not have hangback function properly and they outta not be wherever they are most likely.
Easy way to solve things without going into 2-3 split skill contests.
Easy way to solve things without going into 2-3 split skill contests.
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Hangback
12/31/2012 09:23 PM CST
<Not everyone! I said I wanted everyone to have it and let it be circle based. It's PVE?
Only problem I really have with this is, for example, a Moon Mage that has high magics and TM from sitting around scripting magics and listening to TM class being able to go into a high level hunting area with garbage defenses and not have to worry. That's also kind of the reason I got away from the athletics and such skillcheck. I don't think somebody that's spent a lot of time swimming or something should automatically be good at keeping range in combat.
Only problem I really have with this is, for example, a Moon Mage that has high magics and TM from sitting around scripting magics and listening to TM class being able to go into a high level hunting area with garbage defenses and not have to worry. That's also kind of the reason I got away from the athletics and such skillcheck. I don't think somebody that's spent a lot of time swimming or something should automatically be good at keeping range in combat.
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Hangback
12/31/2012 09:42 PM CST
>> Moon Mage that has high magics and TM from sitting around scripting magics and listening to TM class being able to go into a high level hunting area with garbage defenses and not have to worry.
Let's say you put a 20% fail rate at PlayerCircle=CritterCircle and a fatigue hit. Would you go train in a place where 1 out of 5 times you tried to stay at range you got smacked so hard you cried? I don't think so.
Kodius said it wouldn't be 100% effective. So if a <anyguild> wants to try and train ranged of some sort and not train defense with that, I say let them give it a whirl.
Besides... how does this same mage really effect YOU? So what if MoonMageB has 2000 TM and 200 Evasion? Does that change life that much?
Vinjince was right, there really is no right answer, everyone has a good reason for each skillset or skill they mentioned.
I just think for something so mundane, that is really about playability more than game balance, let's just make it simple.
If this was a PVP issue, you can bet that I'd be screaming about it being a survival skill - but PVE, eh, everyone should enjoy.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
Let's say you put a 20% fail rate at PlayerCircle=CritterCircle and a fatigue hit. Would you go train in a place where 1 out of 5 times you tried to stay at range you got smacked so hard you cried? I don't think so.
Kodius said it wouldn't be 100% effective. So if a <anyguild> wants to try and train ranged of some sort and not train defense with that, I say let them give it a whirl.
Besides... how does this same mage really effect YOU? So what if MoonMageB has 2000 TM and 200 Evasion? Does that change life that much?
Vinjince was right, there really is no right answer, everyone has a good reason for each skillset or skill they mentioned.
I just think for something so mundane, that is really about playability more than game balance, let's just make it simple.
If this was a PVP issue, you can bet that I'd be screaming about it being a survival skill - but PVE, eh, everyone should enjoy.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
DR-KODIUS
Re: Hangback
01/01/2013 01:50 AM CST
>>Only problem I really have with this is, for example, a Moon Mage
So moon mages have some spell that acts like Hangback on steroids.... not every Guild needs or should excel at using Hangback. RETREAT and FLEE still exist, after all.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
So moon mages have some spell that acts like Hangback on steroids.... not every Guild needs or should excel at using Hangback. RETREAT and FLEE still exist, after all.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Hangback
01/01/2013 07:10 AM CST
its too bad that multi-opponent is no longer in the equation for 3.0. Because that would logically make the most sense for the hangback skill. Explanation: as in you are attempting to hang back from a bunch of stuff, but if there's ALOT of critters it would make more sense they could surround you and you wouldn't be able to hang back as easily. I really think it should be a skill check rather than a guild check though.
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
SHADOW7988
Re: Hangback
01/01/2013 12:50 PM CST
I don't think anyone really is suggesting that there should be a guild check.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Hangback
01/01/2013 01:45 PM CST
>>I don't think anyone really is suggesting that there should be a guild check.
I don't think anyone is suggesting a guild check in the "You don't know how to do that!" sense, but they are suggesting some guilds should be better at it due to skillset placements. Think offhand more than slips, and definitely not in the way LT blades multi-throws unlock.
I'm not against this idea, just giving my view on what was suggested.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
I don't think anyone is suggesting a guild check in the "You don't know how to do that!" sense, but they are suggesting some guilds should be better at it due to skillset placements. Think offhand more than slips, and definitely not in the way LT blades multi-throws unlock.
I'm not against this idea, just giving my view on what was suggested.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
CRAVYD
Re: Hangback
01/01/2013 04:42 PM CST
It doesn't matter if some guilds are better at it than others. Some guilds are better at using melee weapons, some are better at running and hiding. Skillset placement hasn't stopped anyone from being good at anything if they were determined enough, yet. If you don't believe me, I'll offer up Caraamon and his forging as an example. Do what makes the most sense for the ability.
RAIST
Re: Hangback
01/01/2013 09:25 PM CST
>I'll offer up Caraamon and his forging as an example.
Beats being offered up as a sacrifice.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Beats being offered up as a sacrifice.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
NINEVAH1
Re: Hangback
01/01/2013 10:00 PM CST
I think Tactics and/or Athletics should be the only check for hangback. The only benefit that any guild should get over another should be that they have a better skillset placement for learning those two skills.
The way Kodius explained it, there will never be a 100% chance of success, plus it is for PvE only. So there is no reason why any guild should have a benefit over any other guild, other than having an easier time learning the skill(s).
The way Kodius explained it, there will never be a 100% chance of success, plus it is for PvE only. So there is no reason why any guild should have a benefit over any other guild, other than having an easier time learning the skill(s).
POWERHAUS
Re: Hangback
01/02/2013 01:24 AM CST
>>hangback 3.0
sounds like that'd work perfectly
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
sounds like that'd work perfectly
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
RAIST
Re: Hangback
01/02/2013 02:08 AM CST
Heh, I know.
Athletics check.
Barbarians get an Expertise related bonus to advance.
Paladins get an Defending related bonus to maintain distance.
It works for HUNT and scouting, right?
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Athletics check.
Barbarians get an Expertise related bonus to advance.
Paladins get an Defending related bonus to maintain distance.
It works for HUNT and scouting, right?
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
REWYN
Re: Hangback
01/02/2013 02:46 AM CST
<<Athletics check.
Barbarians get an Expertise related bonus to advance.
Paladins get an Defending related bonus to maintain distance.>>
Explain to me how a bonus to advance would work in a PvE only system that keeps you at a set distance..?
Barbarians get an Expertise related bonus to advance.
Paladins get an Defending related bonus to maintain distance.>>
Explain to me how a bonus to advance would work in a PvE only system that keeps you at a set distance..?
RAIST
Re: Hangback
01/02/2013 02:54 AM CST
>Explain to me how a bonus to advance would work in a PvE only system that keeps you at a set distance..?
I miss Dragon Dance with it's bonus to things that didn't exist.
Just because it starts out PvE only, doesn't mean it won't be worked into boss mechanics or GMNPC stuff.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
I miss Dragon Dance with it's bonus to things that didn't exist.
Just because it starts out PvE only, doesn't mean it won't be worked into boss mechanics or GMNPC stuff.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
NINEVAH1
Re: Hangback
01/02/2013 11:23 AM CST
>>Just because it starts out PvE only, doesn't mean it won't be worked into boss mechanics or GMNPC stuff.
Kodius specifically stated it would not work against boss critters or any type of player PC so that it didn't have to have weird checks and balances for those. Retreat and Flee are for those situations.
New hangback is for ease of training only.
Kodius specifically stated it would not work against boss critters or any type of player PC so that it didn't have to have weird checks and balances for those. Retreat and Flee are for those situations.
New hangback is for ease of training only.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Hangback
01/02/2013 03:29 PM CST
>>New hangback is for ease of training only.
Ease of training and invasion settings :)
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Ease of training and invasion settings :)
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
GRIM45
Re: Hangback
01/02/2013 03:32 PM CST
>>Ease of training and invasion settings :)
Not so sure on the latter. I'd wager most invasion creatures will be if not already, flagged as 'boss' to some degree.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Not so sure on the latter. I'd wager most invasion creatures will be if not already, flagged as 'boss' to some degree.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
