Innocence is not attempting to turn away ranged attackers, it seems. Some goblin bowmen showed up and were firing at me. ASSESS showed them behind me, and Innocence wasn't doing anything about them.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
LAMBL
DR-MELETE
Re: Innocence Not Working Properly
11/27/2012 03:58 AM CST
>>Innocence is not attempting to turn away ranged attackers, it seems. Some goblin bowmen showed up and were firing at me. ASSESS showed them behind me, and Innocence wasn't doing anything about them.
I reworked how innocence works on creatures a bit. Rather than just keeping them from advancing/facing, they should now consider an empath who has innocence (and who can win the charm vs. will contest) to be friendly. Not enough to make them attack something else, a la manipulate, but enough that they'll likely eventually just leave the room if you are the only thing there to attack. The friendship they feel toward you due to innocence is short-lived, however, so if they do not leave the room they may try to attack again after a bit (and be repelled again, etc.)
One thing about innocence is that the effect is more powerful the closer they are to you, so if you're barely winning the contest the creature may successfully advance to melee, try to attack you and then get repelled.
I had to screw around a little bit with the creature AI when I was doing this so please be on the lookout for general creature weirdness as far as them choosing their targets. For example, closing to melee, attacking, retreating to pole, advancing again, attacking for a bit, then retreating again (it was a bug in the old creature AI that caused that annoying behavior with the old GS, for instance).
This is only Test right now, I'll roll it to plat once I am sure the AI is working properly.
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
I reworked how innocence works on creatures a bit. Rather than just keeping them from advancing/facing, they should now consider an empath who has innocence (and who can win the charm vs. will contest) to be friendly. Not enough to make them attack something else, a la manipulate, but enough that they'll likely eventually just leave the room if you are the only thing there to attack. The friendship they feel toward you due to innocence is short-lived, however, so if they do not leave the room they may try to attack again after a bit (and be repelled again, etc.)
One thing about innocence is that the effect is more powerful the closer they are to you, so if you're barely winning the contest the creature may successfully advance to melee, try to attack you and then get repelled.
I had to screw around a little bit with the creature AI when I was doing this so please be on the lookout for general creature weirdness as far as them choosing their targets. For example, closing to melee, attacking, retreating to pole, advancing again, attacking for a bit, then retreating again (it was a bug in the old creature AI that caused that annoying behavior with the old GS, for instance).
This is only Test right now, I'll roll it to plat once I am sure the AI is working properly.
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
DR-MELETE
Re: Innocence Not Working Properly
11/27/2012 04:04 AM CST
>>For example, closing to melee, attacking, retreating to pole, advancing again, attacking for a bit, then retreating again
I should clarify, I don't mean them getting disengaged due to innocence, but choosing to retreat to pole rather than due to a spell effect. I don't expect problems, but I still want folks to be on the lookout. :]
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
I should clarify, I don't mean them getting disengaged due to innocence, but choosing to retreat to pole rather than due to a spell effect. I don't expect problems, but I still want folks to be on the lookout. :]
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
LAMBL
Re: Innocence Not Working Properly
11/30/2012 01:58 PM CST
Well this can't be right:
A black goblin arrives, grumbling and scratching its head.
A black goblin loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
A black goblin cackles madly and hurls its axe at you with a rolling cry!
The black goblin's axe speeds through the air towards you. You block the axe with your small shield.
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
It doesn't happen all the time...most of the time they either don't try to attack me or just disengage without actually throwing. Once in a while they'll get an axe flying at me though, even though the messaging says I've clearly won the contest.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
A black goblin arrives, grumbling and scratching its head.
A black goblin loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
A black goblin cackles madly and hurls its axe at you with a rolling cry!
The black goblin's axe speeds through the air towards you. You block the axe with your small shield.
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
It doesn't happen all the time...most of the time they either don't try to attack me or just disengage without actually throwing. Once in a while they'll get an axe flying at me though, even though the messaging says I've clearly won the contest.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
LAMBL
Re: Innocence Not Working Properly
11/30/2012 02:45 PM CST
Also, malchata are flinging fireballs at me and using their special attacks despite my success in the contest scrolling my screen at a rapid rate. It might be a special attack thing in general. For what it's worth, seordmaors didn't send any lightning my way, so it sometimes works against magic.
A s'sugi malchata begins to wave its arms in a magical fashion, focusing on you!
A s'sugi malchata loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
>
A s'sugi malchata gestures at you.
A large ball of flame flies at you!
>
A s'sugi malchata gestures at you.
A tiny ball of flame flies at you!
>
A s'sugi malchata loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
>
A s'sugi malchata loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
>
A s'sugi malchata plunges one of its clawed hands into the sand, clucking and chattering wildly. The sand about your feet begins to swirl until it rises up around you, but you deftly leap out of danger!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
>
A s'sugi malchata plunges one of its clawed hands into the sand, clucking and chattering wildly. The sand about your feet begins to swirl until it rises up around you, but you deftly leap out of danger!
[You're solidly balanced and opponent has slight advantage.]
>
You are still rather wet, but drying off nicely.
>
A s'sugi malchata loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
>
A s'sugi malchata loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
Against other players, it seems to only trigger on engagement. They were able to use bow attacks, thrown weapons, targeted spells, and debilitation spells without even contesting Innocence.
Also, on a mildly related note, Compel did nothing to prevent a player victim from returning to the room from which he was expelled. Not sure if that's intentional, but there ya go.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
A s'sugi malchata begins to wave its arms in a magical fashion, focusing on you!
A s'sugi malchata loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
>
A s'sugi malchata gestures at you.
A large ball of flame flies at you!
>
A s'sugi malchata gestures at you.
A tiny ball of flame flies at you!
>
A s'sugi malchata loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
>
A s'sugi malchata loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
>
A s'sugi malchata plunges one of its clawed hands into the sand, clucking and chattering wildly. The sand about your feet begins to swirl until it rises up around you, but you deftly leap out of danger!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
>
A s'sugi malchata plunges one of its clawed hands into the sand, clucking and chattering wildly. The sand about your feet begins to swirl until it rises up around you, but you deftly leap out of danger!
[You're solidly balanced and opponent has slight advantage.]
>
You are still rather wet, but drying off nicely.
>
A s'sugi malchata loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
>
A s'sugi malchata loses all track of harmful intention toward you and disengages.
Against other players, it seems to only trigger on engagement. They were able to use bow attacks, thrown weapons, targeted spells, and debilitation spells without even contesting Innocence.
Also, on a mildly related note, Compel did nothing to prevent a player victim from returning to the room from which he was expelled. Not sure if that's intentional, but there ya go.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
DELVER
Re: Innocence Not Working Properly
11/30/2012 04:47 PM CST
>Also, on a mildly related note, Compel did nothing to prevent a player victim from returning to the room from which he was expelled. Not sure if that's intentional, but there ya go.
From what I've experienced in Plat, Compel has a relatively short duration sub 50 mana.
Asbhuan
From what I've experienced in Plat, Compel has a relatively short duration sub 50 mana.
Asbhuan
DR-MELETE
Re: Innocence Not Working Properly
11/30/2012 10:04 PM CST
>>It might be a special attack thing in general.
Yes, it's looking that way. I'll try to patch up all the holes I can find.
>>Against other players, it seems to only trigger on engagement.
I'll see if there's a reasonable way to stop this.
>>Also, on a mildly related note, Compel did nothing to prevent a player victim from returning to the room from which he was expelled. Not sure if that's intentional, but there ya go.
Yeah, that's intended.
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
Yes, it's looking that way. I'll try to patch up all the holes I can find.
>>Against other players, it seems to only trigger on engagement.
I'll see if there's a reasonable way to stop this.
>>Also, on a mildly related note, Compel did nothing to prevent a player victim from returning to the room from which he was expelled. Not sure if that's intentional, but there ya go.
Yeah, that's intended.
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
DR-MELETE
Re: Innocence Not Working Properly
12/01/2012 04:56 AM CST
>>Against other players, it seems to only trigger on engagement.
Follow up on this. I had confused myself a bit because the innocence spell as it exists in our documentation and how it was discussed between myself and The Powers That Be are different. That's my bad. Here's what the release notes actually say about Innocence:
Innocence is meant to prevent engagement, and that's pretty much it. I think adding the 'critters think the player is a friend' effect is not game-breaking, but preventing all players from attacking the Empath is just out of the scope of this spell.
I like the idea of such a spell, and maybe it will exist someday, but for now I think Innocence will have to stop with preventing engagement, at least versus players. Do let me know if there are workarounds to that, though.
Again, a spell that prevents people from attacking the empath altogether (with stat contests, etc.) isn't off the table, just that innocence isn't that spell.
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
Follow up on this. I had confused myself a bit because the innocence spell as it exists in our documentation and how it was discussed between myself and The Powers That Be are different. That's my bad. Here's what the release notes actually say about Innocence:
| Innocence: |
| Basic Utility. Prevents general engagement, forces engaged enemies to disengage. |
| Note: This will have a new mechanism that will actually, really, prevent an Empath from being engaged by non-undead creatures so long as the Empath does not take any aggressive actions. |
Innocence is meant to prevent engagement, and that's pretty much it. I think adding the 'critters think the player is a friend' effect is not game-breaking, but preventing all players from attacking the Empath is just out of the scope of this spell.
I like the idea of such a spell, and maybe it will exist someday, but for now I think Innocence will have to stop with preventing engagement, at least versus players. Do let me know if there are workarounds to that, though.
Again, a spell that prevents people from attacking the empath altogether (with stat contests, etc.) isn't off the table, just that innocence isn't that spell.
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Innocence Not Working Properly
12/01/2012 05:35 AM CST
<<I think Innocence will have to stop with preventing engagement, at least versus players. Do let me know if there are workarounds to that, though.>>
Interestingly enough, Dispel didn't work.
EMPATH Point of view:
>pow
You reach out with your senses and see pulsating streams of bright blue and white Life mana flowing through the area.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is somewhat less mana to the north.
You are preparing the Innocence spell at fifteen mana.
The spell feels distinctively offensive but will not cause shock.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
>cast
You gesture.
Tapering ribbons of soft yellow extend across the area, pausing to dance in swirls and eddies.
>
You feel fully rested.
>
Totendanz falters, but refuses to turn away.
>
Totendanz raises her an arm skyward, chanting.
>
Totendanz gestures at you.
Rays of dim grey light shine forth from Totendanz's hand steadily. For several moments, your world is cast in a sharp sheen of blacks and whites as an uncomfortable feeling sets in.
>
Totendanz falters, but refuses to turn away.
Necro POV:
>prep dispel 30
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
You raise an arm skyward, chanting the equation of the Dispel spell.
>
You feel fully prepared to cast your spell.
>cast rufia
You gesture at Rufiagonif.
Rays of dim grey light shine forth from your hand steadily. For several moments, Rufiagonif is cast in a sharp sheen of blacks and whites as your spell seeks out an energy pattern to undo.
Your spell did not affect anything.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
57th empath vs 108th necro. Not bad from the empaths standpoint. :-)
Tested in hiding, couldn't advance from hiding.
However:
thrown <and i assume other ranged> not prevented:
>adv rufia
You feel uneasy and cautious about approaching Rufiagonif, but the sensation soon passes, leaving you only a tiny lingering sense of guilt.
>throw rufia
You come out of hiding.
You turn to face Rufiagonif.
< With the speed and temerity of a swooping falcon, you throw an ivory-hilted jambiya at Rufiagonif. Rufiagonif completely fails to block with her target shield. The jambiya lands a good strike to Rufiagonif's left arm.
The ivory-hilted jambiya falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]
The vivisection spell works as well.
necro:
Your formation of a targeting pattern around Rufiagonif has completed.
>cast rufia
You flicker your malevolent desires towards Rufiagonif, summoning invisible blades to strike at her with the merest thought.
You are convinced that your casting went unobserved.
Cuts and tears appear all over Rufiagonif's chest, creating a thin red mist in the general vicinity.
Rufiagonif is stunned!
Roundtime: 1 sec.
empath:
You hear someone chanting.
>
You get a startling sensation, as some sixth sense barely warns you of an assault by Totendanz!
You feel invisible blades slashing you as cuts and tears rip open all across your chest, creating a thin red mist in the general vicinity.
You are stunned!
>
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
Interestingly enough, Dispel didn't work.
EMPATH Point of view:
>pow
You reach out with your senses and see pulsating streams of bright blue and white Life mana flowing through the area.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is somewhat less mana to the north.
You are preparing the Innocence spell at fifteen mana.
The spell feels distinctively offensive but will not cause shock.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
>cast
You gesture.
Tapering ribbons of soft yellow extend across the area, pausing to dance in swirls and eddies.
>
You feel fully rested.
>
Totendanz falters, but refuses to turn away.
>
Totendanz raises her an arm skyward, chanting.
>
Totendanz gestures at you.
Rays of dim grey light shine forth from Totendanz's hand steadily. For several moments, your world is cast in a sharp sheen of blacks and whites as an uncomfortable feeling sets in.
>
Totendanz falters, but refuses to turn away.
Necro POV:
>prep dispel 30
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
You raise an arm skyward, chanting the equation of the Dispel spell.
>
You feel fully prepared to cast your spell.
>cast rufia
You gesture at Rufiagonif.
Rays of dim grey light shine forth from your hand steadily. For several moments, Rufiagonif is cast in a sharp sheen of blacks and whites as your spell seeks out an energy pattern to undo.
Your spell did not affect anything.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
57th empath vs 108th necro. Not bad from the empaths standpoint. :-)
Tested in hiding, couldn't advance from hiding.
However:
thrown <and i assume other ranged> not prevented:
>adv rufia
You feel uneasy and cautious about approaching Rufiagonif, but the sensation soon passes, leaving you only a tiny lingering sense of guilt.
>throw rufia
You come out of hiding.
You turn to face Rufiagonif.
< With the speed and temerity of a swooping falcon, you throw an ivory-hilted jambiya at Rufiagonif. Rufiagonif completely fails to block with her target shield. The jambiya lands a good strike to Rufiagonif's left arm.
The ivory-hilted jambiya falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]
The vivisection spell works as well.
necro:
Your formation of a targeting pattern around Rufiagonif has completed.
>cast rufia
You flicker your malevolent desires towards Rufiagonif, summoning invisible blades to strike at her with the merest thought.
You are convinced that your casting went unobserved.
Cuts and tears appear all over Rufiagonif's chest, creating a thin red mist in the general vicinity.
Rufiagonif is stunned!
Roundtime: 1 sec.
empath:
You hear someone chanting.
>
You get a startling sensation, as some sixth sense barely warns you of an assault by Totendanz!
You feel invisible blades slashing you as cuts and tears rip open all across your chest, creating a thin red mist in the general vicinity.
You are stunned!
>
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
LAMBL
Re: Innocence Not Working Properly
12/01/2012 06:30 AM CST
Hm, that's unfortunate. So basically Innocence is just for creatures, since other characters will be smart enough to just attack you without engaging. Well that's good to know at least, thanks for the update.
<<Again, a spell that prevents people from attacking the empath altogether (with stat contests, etc.) isn't off the table, just that innocence isn't that spell.>>
I suggessted just such a spell quite a while back...at this point it sounds like it would make the most sense as a Metaspell that modifies Innocence. I still like the idea.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
<<Again, a spell that prevents people from attacking the empath altogether (with stat contests, etc.) isn't off the table, just that innocence isn't that spell.>>
I suggessted just such a spell quite a while back...at this point it sounds like it would make the most sense as a Metaspell that modifies Innocence. I still like the idea.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
