>That's not very smart. You wouldnt be able to tell anything from that because there is too many variables.

That was the point.

You say 'time' as though it's magically easier to measure. Even with your suggestions below, it takes more effort, processing, and time, than just 'ok, X circle, Y ranks'. You're better off arguing for increased IF ranks per-circle than arbitrary measurements.

And measuring 'bestest weapon training method' is a really, really, bad idea, and going to murder the slow players who might have been out of combat 90% of the time and running meditations/forms/etc. to train IF.

Or are you ignoring the fact that several of the best forgers in game are barbs who spend a metric ton of time forging, not in combat, but would be running IF skills? Because you've just burned them.

I could have misunderstood your math though, because, if I'm honest, I really didn't do more than glance at it and see it was a time-in-combat calculation.

---

Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.

>>Or are you ignoring the fact that several of the best forgers in game are barbs who spend a metric ton of time forging, not in combat, but would be running IF skills? Because you've just burned them.

lol that's me buddy.

I agree there is no great way to do it. I dont expect to change obviously and my last post was before I read Kodius response.

>>Also, this has been known since the very first talks about the new skills. You have had plenty of time to adjust.

Oh I did adjust, alot.

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

>lol that's me buddy.

Ya, I'm not making a particularly stellar point. I'll try it one more way and then drop it. You're a top-end player in a lot of ways, but that can't be the basis for most of the game; while as the population ages, we see a noticable increase in player training efficiency, we can't force adjust all ranks, systems, etc. based on that. I see where you're coming from with the combat-skills approach, but still feel like it leaves a lot to be desired; moreso than the current circle-based method. Aside from the odd case where someone has more combat skills then required to circle, why does your method have an upside compared to straight circle? I understand all of the barbs are upset about low ranks being grandfathered.

---

Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.

>>Aside from the odd case where someone has more combat skills then required to circle, why does your method have an upside compared to straight circle?

I would have the circle formula still apply. The only difference is there would a modification min it to include bonuses to those that met specific minimum criteria, thats all.

Same thing would apply to mastery skills, like now someone with 800 in 2 melee weapons gets 200 ranks more than someone with 600 in 12 melee weapon skills.

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

>>I would much much rather have more zerk power that allows us to shrug off damage, disablers, and stuns in order to get in close and do damage. To me this is a better barbarian way than just getting our own disablers.

>>Not a GvG argument, but this sounds alot like Protect Self (Paladin 100th ability, has a lengthy cooldown).

A little late on this, but Barbarians have had pulsing anti-stun and damage reduction in their berserks far longer than Paladins have had protect self, so it's simply following precedent.

>>Barbarians have had mountains more development and consistent GM's, so I have no doubt that their abilities are the bees knees and have had access to all sorts of yummy things. However I think the Anti Stun spell has been around as far back as I remember(web move), before berserk had the pulsing stun breaks, but I could be mistaken.

Yes, AS has been around forever. I'm just saying it's funny to call an ability "Paladinish" when it's a direct conversion from 2.0 mechanics that have been around for almost a decade.

>> but I think thats more about having a decade of very little development for paladins than it is a barb issue.

Yes, Paladins need a new lead, lead GMs to guild, which can be strengthened by the Ranger ability beseech GMs to code.

I must be doing something wrong here - I tried Dragon/Wildfire/Piranha/Contemplation/Turtle and altogether they lasted for a grand total of 8 minutes - that's 3 basics 1 intro and 1 expert.


Circle: 169
Showing all skills with field experience.

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction
Inner Fire: 812 55% intrigued (16/34) Augmentation: 652 70% interested (12/34)
Warding: 407 42% perusing (2/34)


...

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a bright aura of beautiful flames extending a quarter of your height above you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>
The horse-drawn carriage's driver pulls on his reigns, slowing it to a complete stop. He slowly assists his passengers off and begins scanning the crowd for more.

>

The Human driver says, "I'm leaving shortly, returning to the ferry to Riverhaven. If you would like to accompany me for a safe trip there, just join me." The Human driver smiles.
[JOIN HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE before it leaves if you would like to go to the ferry to Riverhaven.]

>
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....

After a moment, it seems to calm down.
>
The winds shift slightly to bring respite from the hot sun.
>
The sun nears the far horizon as the clear blue sky deepens into a rich indigo.
> siut
Please rephrase that command.
> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a bright aura of beautiful flames extending a quarter of your height above you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
> sit
You sit down.

s> med contem
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
sR>
Gazing into the flame, you contemplate a myriad of protective strategies.
sR>
Closer, closer the flames leap as you complete the martial analysis.
s>
The flame dance about you and fuel an enhanced defensive capability!
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
s> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a bright aura of beautiful flames.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
s>
The horse-drawn carriage's driver shouts, "And off we go! We'll be making our way to the Riverhaven ferry. I'll return for more passengers in a short while!"

s> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a bright aura of beautiful flames extending a quarter of your height above you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
s> stand
You stand back up.

> form start piranha
Your movements begin to mimic the rapid rythm of the piranha.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R>
The mule-drawn wagon's driver pulls on his reigns, slowing it to a complete stop. He slowly assists his passengers off and begins scanning the crowd for more.

R>

The Dwarven driver says, "I'm leaving shortly, returning to the ferry to Riverhaven. If you would like to accompany me for a safe trip there, just join me." The Dwarven driver smiles.
[JOIN MULE-DRAWN WAGON before it leaves if you would like to go to the ferry to Riverhaven.]

> form start turtle
With the determined movements of the turtle, you prepare to deflect incomining magical attacks.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R> form start dragon
You slowly center yourself, your mind growing quiet as a quickly building rage surges through your body, your limbs quaking with its boundless strength. A terrible roar of fury and bloodlust rips from your throat as the Form of the Dragon consumes you, only a thread of control fighting back the descent into a berserker's madness.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a bright aura of beautiful flames extending a quarter of your height above you.
A powerful gale threatens the aura forming around you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
> bers wildfire

>
You sense the rage within you well up and explode in a wild rage of dangerous power. The world dissolves in blood-red shadow, and your heart pounds madly within your chest, igniting bone, sinew, and muscle with savage strength!
> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a large aura of beautiful flames.
A powerful gale threatens the aura forming around you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
> med power
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R>
Symbolic representations of your inner fire manipulations begin to form.
R>
The threads of control maintaining your focus, rage and calm are now clearly visible.
>
You are currently practicing the Turtle Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are completely consumed with the Wildfire Berserk.
The Contemplation meditation is still burned into your mind.

|

---

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>
The mule-drawn wagon's driver shouts, "And off we go! We'll be making our way to the Riverhaven ferry. I'll return for more passengers in a short while!"

>
Blood pumping loudly, you whip about in a tumultuous fury.
> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a tiny aura of beautiful flames.
A powerful gale threatens the aura forming around you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>
Xibar sets, slowly dropping below the horizon.
> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a flickering aura of beautiful flame.
A powerful gale threatens the aura forming around you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a tiny aura of beautiful flames.
A powerful gale threatens the aura forming around you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>
Blood pumping loudly, you whip about in a tumultuous fury.
> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a flickering aura of beautiful flame.
A powerful gale threatens the aura forming around you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>
Blood pumping loudly, you whip about in a tumultuous fury.
> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
You see your reflection surrounded by a dim glow as if a flame lurked just out of sight.
A powerful gale threatens the aura forming around you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
> med power
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
Symbolic representations of your inner fire manipulations begin to form.
R>
The threads of control maintaining your focus, rage and calm are now clearly visible.
>
You are currently practicing the Turtle Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are deeply enraged with the Wildfire Berserk.
The Contemplation meditation is still burned into your mind.

---

|

---

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
> med power
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
Symbolic representations of your inner fire manipulations begin to form.
>
The threads of control maintaining your focus, rage and calm are now clearly visible.
>
You are currently practicing the Turtle Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are thoroughly inflamed with the Wildfire Berserk.
The Contemplation meditation is still burned into your mind.

---

|

---

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
You see your reflection surrounded by a dim glow as if a flame lurked just out of sight.
A powerful gale threatens the aura forming around you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>
Blood pumping loudly, you whip about in a tumultuous fury.
> med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
You see your reflection surrounded by a dim glow as if a flame lurked just out of sight.
A powerful gale threatens the aura forming around you.

You recall that you have 2 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 12 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 9 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>
The horse-drawn carriage's driver pulls on his reigns, slowing it to a complete stop. He slowly assists his passengers off and begins scanning the crowd for more.

>
The wild fire powering your limbs flickers, and then goes out entirely.
>
You feel your inner fire cool as you finish practicing the Form of the Dragon.
>

The Human driver says, "I'm leaving shortly, returning to the ferry to Riverhaven. If you would like to accompany me for a safe trip there, just join me." The Human driver smiles.
[JOIN HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE before it leaves if you would like to go to the ferry to Riverhaven.]

>
You feel your inner fire cool as you finish practicing the Form of the Turtle.
>
The horse-drawn carriage's driver shouts, "And off we go! We'll be making our way to the Riverhaven ferry. I'll return for more passengers in a short while!"

>

...

Not sure what to make of it.

---

IM: Dannyboy00001111

"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."

>>I agree that generally I feel like we could use a small uptweak, or the IF cost of berserks needs to be lowered a bit, or some such.

Kodius has said with the fix to room mana, we may get a tweak to IF. I hope...

---

~The Prydaen~

You need to use the Meditate Power ability to get the bar that will show you percentages... only it doesn't work with Genie so far. Meditate Flame will give you messaging about your Fire's strength, but it isn't as specific as Power. On my baby barb I elected to not learn (unlearn? I forget now) Power and make do with just the Flame messaging in favor of freeing up training sessions.

---

~The Prydaen~

I'll look into making Power work with Genie. 812 IF ranks is what what I meant.

Infused chakrel will yield interesting possibilities, but it is likely to be festivals/merchants/quests only until after Enchanting is completed.

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

You tap a curved greatsword with a chakrel stone pommel inside your greatsword sheath.
>
The large black steel blade follows a slight curve, though sharpened to a razor edge on both sides of the blade. A long hilt curves in the opposite direction of the blade and ends with a white glaes pommel cage that holds a faceted chakrel stone.


Will this be infused chakral in 3.0? It is a faceted chakral stone in a greatsword?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Bit Player of M'Riss

>>Wait, what? Chakrel will be enchanting?

I think I heard a heart break through my monitor.

---

Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry

Calm down, I'm sure this is somewhat like how Barbarians use skills similar to what Mages use, but in a purely barbarian fashion that is nothing like using magic.

---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

Whew. You scared me for a moment.

---

Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance