So I start silence, i go into invisibility, I attack something, obviously losing invisibility.

30 seconds later it reforms.

Always 30 seconds, never more, never less.

Not sure if that's what you were going for or not.

Nice catch, glad this isn't an

>invis
>attack
>invis
>attack
>invis
>attack

x 100 skill any more.

>>this seriously cripples this ability to near uselessness in combat (which I'm guessing is what you were told to do

I don't think a roundtime-free ambush prep every 30 seconds is all that useless. That comes out to what, one roundtime-free ambush every ~6 hide/attack sets?

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>But this change... without something to counter it, is too drastic.

Well, I've already reduced some of the penalties associated with hiding vs other players, which probably helps more than this particular fix hurts. As far as the actual durations go, I'd have to actually see how things worked in live combat. Focusing on just the worse case scenario of immediately acting out of invisibility doesn't sway me much, especially since you have another ability you can use to go invisible that can help fill in a gap on occasion.

One other important thing to remember - http://cheezburger.com/3352758016


FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

>Focusing on just the worse case scenario of immediately acting out of invisibility doesn't sway me much.

I'm not sure how it's the worst case scenario.

Either you'd immediately attack, or immediately be spotted by a search or outed by an aoe spell/abiltiy/effect that can hit in the shadows, not to mention being spotted passively while advancing. Either way it would immediately break, and you'd have 30 seconds (at the very, very best) of nothing.

I guess you could kind of front load it, go into invisibility and wait for 30 seconds doing nothing before attacking, but that's only going to work one time per engagement... and yuck, that's like self inflicted RT or something.

Don't get me wrong, silence would still definitely have it's utility uses, I just cringe to see thieves continue to lose combat viable stuff, when we already have so little.

I agree with WATCH should be removed. Not sure why it really exists. Stealth needs some changes to make invizo not the only real way to use it. That being said, Necro's have had the 28-30 second reform for a long time and while our ability's do not require it. I don't think Invizo was intended to be an absolute defense against aimed weapons and TM.

-Zerreck

>That being said, Necro's have had the 28-30 second reform for a long time and while our ability's do not require it.

That requires what... 7th circle?

So, a 7th circle Necro has the same invisibility pulse as a near 200th circle thief who is using a skill based timer.

Just tested it myself in both prime and test before making this post.

I must be crazy, cuz I just don't get it.

>>I must be crazy, cuz I just don't get it.

And I'm fine with that - considering there hasn't been any actual testing of the ability under any condition except those that determine the max timer for one particular player. Now, folks can actually play test the change and give feedback, and we can see what can be done while this is still in Test, or we can theorize it some more on the forums and let the play testing happen when 3.1 rolls into the live servers and then possibly make modifications.

FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

You can't compare this change to RF or EoTB. RF and EoTB take 30 seconds to reform no matter what; you could spend 5 minutes in RF or EoTB invis, cast a spell and still have to wait 30 seconds.

From what I read in Ricinus's posts, if you're in silence invis for the better part of 30 seconds, invis can potentially reform in under 5 seconds based on skill. In many ways, silence is still way better than RF and EoTB. You just can't attack and have invis reform right away unless you wait a little while before attacking.

Thinking back, I don't think invis was ever intended to replace mundane stealth, which makes a lot of sense to me.

I tested with just dropping a coin, and then picking up to drop silence. The first drop/breaking of silence lasted for ~5 seconds, and silence was brought back up. I dropped/picked up the coin again, and it took 85 seconds for silence to pop back on (no movement, no combat, just sitting there). I retried this in prime, and for me, its a 10-15 second reactivation time, each time. Mid 90s, the 3.1 reactivate time seems a bit much.

>it took 85 seconds for silence to pop back on (no movement, no combat, just sitting there). I retried this in prime, and for me, its a 10-15 second reactivation time, each time. Mid 90s, the 3.1 reactivate time seems a bit much.

>So i don't think any sort of skill check is happening/ To speed up the pulse on it.

Thank you, those were some the points I was trying to make. Any which way you slice it, something isn't working or needs tweaking.

>Now, folks can actually play test the change and give feedback, and we can see what can be done while this is still in Test, or we can theorize it some more on the forums and let the play testing happen when 3.1 rolls into the live servers and then possibly make modifications.

Yes, please. We need more people testing. I get so lonely in there all by myself.

Just kidding. I don't. DR single player mode!

:D

Ok, figured I'd put together a different version for you folks to try out. This one has a max refresh of 40 seconds and a minimum refresh of 25 seconds, and with higher skill you can work off some of that refresh time while invisible.

So, a circle 1 thief, sitting to start this khri, would wait 40 seconds after becoming visible before the invisiblity kicked back in regardless of how long they were hanging out invisible prior to being spotted.

Your grandfathered base rank mid-90ish thief not using any starting perks to boost potency would wait 25 seconds after becoming visible, also regardless of how much time spent invisible. Add in sitting/delay and 5 seconds of that 25 seconds could be counted while invisible, making the refresh 20 seconds after popping out of invisible.

And finally, the uber guy can work off all but whatever is left before the next pulse, which is anywhere from 0-5 seconds. Being bounced out of invisible repeatedly will of course will leave the refresh at the minimum of 25 seconds.


FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

Sorry I meant to also include the positive line:

Don't get me wrong, silence would still definitely have it's utility uses.



I need an edit button, or to just stop posting in the morning.

>I'm not sure I can lay out the changes any clearer than I already have. For you personally, the only difference is the change from 30 to 25,

Thank you, again I was not trying to be snarky... I just wasn't sure. It was early in the morning and I thought I'd post to make sure I wasn't missing something.

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it.

Some more data points. Both characters used sitting and delay to start Silence, and then waited 1 minute before they broke inviso.

54th with 95 Util & 152 IM: Reformed after 39 seconds.

150th with 359 Util & 575 IM: Reformed after 5 seconds. I dropped inviso again approximately 30 seconds later and it reformed very quickly. My timer said 3 seconds but I didn't hit the start button exactly when I dropped inviso.

As for my opinion on the new Silence, I don't really know yet. I use it typically in PvP and haven't done much in Test, especially with the new stealth changes, but I don't see my use of it changing or really being effected much by this. Otherwise it seems to be working as intended.

I will add that I like having inviso reform be skill based. I always like when timers can be reduced with skill.