I've just added a new Ranger spell in Test called Skein of Shadows.
It's an advanced augmentation/utility hybrid that requires blend and 2 slots. It increases your armor skill and decreases stealth hindrance of light armor, chain armor and brigandine.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
DR-RAESH
DRFREAK
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 09:47 AM CDT
Very glad to see the GM's working on making stealth a bit better. Awesome spell.
In 3.1 now first thieves got a stealth armor hindrance reducer. Then they lowered the penalties from pole and melee range hiding.(which primarily helps thieves) And finally ranger's got a stealth hindrance reducer.
Is it possible for Necromancer's to have something to help take the sting off of them? We are still working with the same problems as them, and rely on stealth just as much.
Maybe a spell that grows flesh over the armor reducing stealth hindrance? Possibly increasing the protection of light armor and chain only? Or growing some armor that has no hindrance but works similar to critter armor? I don't want to step on ranger/thief toys. But now both the other survival prime guilds have something to combat the stealth issues.
-Zerreck Arkarm
DR-RAESH
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 10:16 AM CDT
I'll muse over it but it won't be an overnight thing. I don't like copy/pasting abilities too much and this particular spell was approved over a year ago and just got caught up in some of the 3.1 combat changes and so forth.
It's worth noting (since I'm not sure how well, if at all, appraise reflects the boost from SKS and Dampen) the two abilities aren't quite the same. In broad terms Dampen is better if you're sticking to light armor and also works on shields to a degree whereas SKS still favors lighter armors but not nearly as strongly and does nothing for shields. It's a subtle effect to push rangers to a little heavier armor than Thieves and to exploit their armor secondary nature a bit more.
Also, let me know if the messaging makes sense - what little there is for a spell like this. I'll admit I didn't have a strong concept for how the spell just a name I ended up liking and rolled with it.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
It's worth noting (since I'm not sure how well, if at all, appraise reflects the boost from SKS and Dampen) the two abilities aren't quite the same. In broad terms Dampen is better if you're sticking to light armor and also works on shields to a degree whereas SKS still favors lighter armors but not nearly as strongly and does nothing for shields. It's a subtle effect to push rangers to a little heavier armor than Thieves and to exploit their armor secondary nature a bit more.
Also, let me know if the messaging makes sense - what little there is for a spell like this. I'll admit I didn't have a strong concept for how the spell just a name I ended up liking and rolled with it.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
BADGOPHER
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 10:57 AM CDT
>Then they lowered the penalties from pole and melee range hiding.(which primarily helps thieves)
Uh, that helps anyone who wants to train stealth in combat. Thieves generally have enough oomph to overcome a lot of the issues, with khri and bonus and ambush sight. A barbarian, however, is screwed if he's trying to stealth much and doesn't have 40x the ranks of the opponent.
Uh, that helps anyone who wants to train stealth in combat. Thieves generally have enough oomph to overcome a lot of the issues, with khri and bonus and ambush sight. A barbarian, however, is screwed if he's trying to stealth much and doesn't have 40x the ranks of the opponent.
DRFREAK
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 11:30 AM CDT
Man, I am sorry, I am again talking about stealth as it pertains to PVP. Though my 155 barb has never had an issue training stealth at level in the right armor. And now with panther becoming a 20% stealth boost. I likely never will again. But your right, the pole-melee stealth thing does absolutely help everyone when it comes to PVE training.
-Zerreck Arkarm
DR-RICINUS
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 11:53 AM CDT
>>But your right, the pole-melee stealth thing does absolutely help everyone when it comes to PVE training.
Well, the change in Test that affects stealth contests at various ranges only applies to PvP. The PvE modifiers remain the same.
FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate
Well, the change in Test that affects stealth contests at various ranges only applies to PvP. The PvE modifiers remain the same.
FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate
DRFREAK
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 12:01 PM CDT
Oh, well then. So it primarily is for thieves in PVP.
-Zerreck Arkarm
EMBODIEDCHAOS
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 12:10 PM CDT
> It's an advanced augmentation/utility hybrid that requires blend and 2 slots. It increases your armor skill and decreases stealth hindrance of light armor, chain armor and brigandine.
Does the thief version increase armor as well? Ive considered dampen relatively worthless to thief because a stealth hindrance decrease alone puts it at the bottom of the useful khri list.
Does the thief version increase armor as well? Ive considered dampen relatively worthless to thief because a stealth hindrance decrease alone puts it at the bottom of the useful khri list.
DR-RICINUS
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 12:24 PM CDT
>>Does the thief version increase armor as well? Ive considered dampen relatively worthless to thief because a stealth hindrance decrease alone puts it at the bottom of the useful khri list.
Nope. It's not uncommon for early tier abilities/spells to only provide one benefit, so there are no current plans to add anything else to dampen.
FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate
Nope. It's not uncommon for early tier abilities/spells to only provide one benefit, so there are no current plans to add anything else to dampen.
FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate
EMBODIEDCHAOS
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 12:40 PM CDT
> Nope. It's not uncommon for early tier abilities/spells to only provide one benefit, so there are no current plans to add anything else to dampen.
Perhaps that consideration to add more and make it higher tier should be made. The existence of khri that provide no valid benefit to put it on level with other khri is kind of pointless. Its like choosing to put a toaster in your car rather than a stereo, who in gods name would do it.
Perhaps that consideration to add more and make it higher tier should be made. The existence of khri that provide no valid benefit to put it on level with other khri is kind of pointless. Its like choosing to put a toaster in your car rather than a stereo, who in gods name would do it.
DR-RICINUS
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 12:58 PM CDT
>>The existence of khri that provide no valid benefit to put it on level with other khri is kind of pointless.
If you would like to test it out using the various armor types it benefits, and then post your results in the Thief 3.1 folder, I'd be glad to hear you out.
FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate
If you would like to test it out using the various armor types it benefits, and then post your results in the Thief 3.1 folder, I'd be glad to hear you out.
FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate
EMBODIEDCHAOS
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 01:08 PM CDT
> If you would like to test it out using the various armor types it benefits, and then post your results in the Thief 3.1 folder, I'd be glad to hear you out.
That is the problem, there are no various armor types for thief. Thieves who know anything about their class wear cloth with the smallest shield possible, it is the best and only good option. The evasion hindrance butchers us for wearing anything other than cloth. With that said, using dampen while in cloth is a waste of resources. The current dampen may be well intended, but it does not mesh with the other systems thief is forced to interact with.
That is the problem, there are no various armor types for thief. Thieves who know anything about their class wear cloth with the smallest shield possible, it is the best and only good option. The evasion hindrance butchers us for wearing anything other than cloth. With that said, using dampen while in cloth is a waste of resources. The current dampen may be well intended, but it does not mesh with the other systems thief is forced to interact with.
MOCKERJB
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 08:49 PM CDT
<<The evasion hindrance butchers us for wearing anything other than cloth.>>
That's very strange. As a fellow armor tert, I've seen some awesome LC set ups. I'm surprised you're so "cloth or die," Raikage. For what it's worth, I repeat that as an armor tert, I would love dampen, or skein of shadows. I am hoping very much that skein is not signature. Making chain just a little less brutal on stealth (which is what it sounds like skein is specifically targeting) would be absolutely awesome.
That's very strange. As a fellow armor tert, I've seen some awesome LC set ups. I'm surprised you're so "cloth or die," Raikage. For what it's worth, I repeat that as an armor tert, I would love dampen, or skein of shadows. I am hoping very much that skein is not signature. Making chain just a little less brutal on stealth (which is what it sounds like skein is specifically targeting) would be absolutely awesome.
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Skein of Shadows ::Nudge::
03/16/2014 08:56 PM CDT
Last I looked this is the Ranger folder. Take the Thief discussion to the Thief folder.
Thanks.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
EMBODIEDCHAOS
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/16/2014 08:59 PM CDT
> That's very strange. As a fellow armor tert, I've seen some awesome LC set ups. I'm surprised you're so "cloth or die," Raikage. For what it's worth, I repeat that as an armor tert, I would love dampen, or skein of shadows. I am hoping very much that skein is not signature. Making chain just a little less brutal on stealth (which is what it sounds like skein is specifically targeting) would be absolutely awesome.
Well its not just armor tert that does it. Being a combination of armor tert + survival primary + other factors tiers good thief defenses specifically at focusing evasion. I have tried every armor mix there is, and every one of them gives you a lower effective defense than just wearing cloth.
Well its not just armor tert that does it. Being a combination of armor tert + survival primary + other factors tiers good thief defenses specifically at focusing evasion. I have tried every armor mix there is, and every one of them gives you a lower effective defense than just wearing cloth.
MOCKERJB
Re: Skein of Shadows
03/17/2014 08:47 AM CDT
Yeah, I'm sure that's right with a diamond-hide shield. Still, the protection/absorption on some special LC set ups is totally worth the extra small shade of hinderance when I know I'm in a fight where I'll get hit some (basically every challenging fight).
