> Raesh: Yeah, that doesn't look right. What were you doing to do that?
By starting and then quickly canceling research, you can complete a research project in seconds. The following log took about 5 seconds (it also demonstrates the roundoff bug).
>research fundamental 300
research cancel
You tentatively reach out and begin manipulating the mana streams, testing their give and the amount of energy coursing through them.
You decide to stop researching Fundamental Research.
>research fundamental 300
research cancel
You tentatively reach out and begin manipulating the mana streams, testing their give and the amount of energy coursing through them.
You decide to stop researching Fundamental Research.
>research fundamental 300
research cancel
You tentatively reach out and begin manipulating the mana streams, testing their give and the amount of energy coursing through them.
You decide to stop researching Fundamental Research.
>research fundamental 300
research cancel
You tentatively reach out and begin manipulating the mana streams, testing their give and the amount of energy coursing through them.
You decide to stop researching Fundamental Research.
>research fundamental 300
research cancel
You realize that your project about Fundamental Research only requires 284 more seconds of research, so you adjust your plans accordingly.
You tentatively reach out and begin manipulating the mana streams, testing their give and the amount of energy coursing through them.
You decide to stop researching Fundamental Research.
>research fundamental 300
research cancel
You realize that your project about Fundamental Research only requires 72 more seconds of research, so you adjust your plans accordingly.
You tentatively reach out and begin manipulating the mana streams, testing their give and the amount of energy coursing through them.
You decide to stop researching Fundamental Research.
>research fundamental 300
research cancel
You realize that your project about Fundamental Research only requires 18 more seconds of research, so you adjust your plans accordingly.
You tentatively reach out and begin manipulating the mana streams, testing their give and the amount of energy coursing through them.
You decide to stop researching Fundamental Research.
>research fundamental 300
research cancel
You realize that your project about Fundamental Research only requires 6 more seconds of research, so you adjust your plans accordingly.
You tentatively reach out and begin manipulating the mana streams, testing their give and the amount of energy coursing through them.
You decide to stop researching Fundamental Research.
>research fundamental 300
research cancel
You realize that your project about Fundamental Research only requires 2 more seconds of research, so you adjust your plans accordingly.
You tentatively reach out and begin manipulating the mana streams, testing their give and the amount of energy coursing through them.
You decide to stop researching Fundamental Research.
>research fundamental 300
You realize that your project about Fundamental Research only requires 1 more seconds of research, so you adjust your plans accordingly.
You tentatively reach out and begin manipulating the mana streams, testing their give and the amount of energy coursing through them.
Breakthrough!
You have a novel insight into the nature of spellcasting. While it probably won't make you famous, it will surely come in handy with practical magic.
ILLIENA
JHALIASCLERIC
re: 3.1 release
03/24/2014 09:38 AM CDT
Haaaaaaaa! It looks like you're automatically getting some portion of the remaining project.
Out of curiosity, how did you discover that?
Out of curiosity, how did you discover that?
ILLIENA
re: 3.1 release
03/24/2014 09:46 AM CDT
> Haaaaaaaa! It looks like you're automatically getting some portion of the remaining project.
Actually, I'm getting all of it. I didn't show the details, but you can use research status to check your completion percentages. When it says "you only need 72 seconds more", it's wrong. Even if I waited out the full 72 seconds normally, I wouldn't finish the research project. That was the second bug I alluded to.
> Out of curiosity, how did you discover that?
Just playing around with things.
Actually, I'm getting all of it. I didn't show the details, but you can use research status to check your completion percentages. When it says "you only need 72 seconds more", it's wrong. Even if I waited out the full 72 seconds normally, I wouldn't finish the research project. That was the second bug I alluded to.
> Out of curiosity, how did you discover that?
Just playing around with things.
ALGOTHI
re: 3.1 release
03/24/2014 10:52 PM CDT
To add to this, I am still getting a rather large amount of exp from cyclic spells in a short amount of time.
After 2 minutes with RoC at 19 mana, harnessing 17 mana per pulse.
Attune: 867 00% (17/34)
Magic: 873 75% (7/34)
Utility: 748 16% (17/34)
This is likely far too much exp in the given timeframe, though I wonder if its due to RoC's pulse rate of once approx. every 15 seconds.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
After 2 minutes with RoC at 19 mana, harnessing 17 mana per pulse.
Attune: 867 00% (17/34)
Magic: 873 75% (7/34)
Utility: 748 16% (17/34)
This is likely far too much exp in the given timeframe, though I wonder if its due to RoC's pulse rate of once approx. every 15 seconds.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
DRFREAK
re: 3.1 release
03/24/2014 11:14 PM CDT
I think some of that is because that is where ROC caps. I get much less exp then that at 1100-1200s in similar magics.
-Zerreck Arkarm
DRFREAK
re: 3.1 release
03/24/2014 11:16 PM CDT
I would really hate to see the magic gain of my only non combat cyclic to be lowered more then it is.
-Zerreck Arkarm
JHALIASCLERIC
re: 3.1 release
03/25/2014 08:11 AM CDT
How does it hold up if you wait longer though? I thought the time frame on cyclic xp was within a 5m window. My playing around with it in test showed it's still a good way to gain magic XP, but after a certain length of time, you need to release and recast.
ALGOTHI
re: 3.1 release
03/25/2014 11:13 AM CDT
>How does it hold up if you wait longer though?
In the case of RoC, after the 2 minute mark there is little to no exp. I dont see it go above 17/34 no matter how long I wait, so its likely the exp drop-off to zero is close to that point.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
In the case of RoC, after the 2 minute mark there is little to no exp. I dont see it go above 17/34 no matter how long I wait, so its likely the exp drop-off to zero is close to that point.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
JHALIASCLERIC
re: 3.1 release
03/25/2014 01:44 PM CDT
I see something very similar. I think that's functioning as intended.
MOCKERJB
re: 3.1 release
03/25/2014 01:49 PM CDT
Extremely unlikely that it's "working as intended" to lock multiple magic skills in 4 minutes.
JHALIASCLERIC
re: 3.1 release
03/25/2014 02:39 PM CDT
Nono, sorry, to clarify, I'm responding to DRFREAKs point about cyclic XP from RoC, not the repeated cancellation of research granting full time bug.
JHALIASCLERIC
TFPALADIN
re: 3.1 release
03/27/2014 07:42 AM CDT
One of the things that people may be missing with 3.1 is the fact that you need to actually pick your spells. For the past year having every spell open, to me, takes away the fun and experimentation of the game. Starting a new guild and having access to every spell regardless of level may seem like a good thing, but I actually don't like it.
STILVA
re: 3.1 release
03/27/2014 09:08 AM CDT
>One of the things that people may be missing with 3.1 is the fact that you need to actually pick your spells. For the past year having every spell open, to me, takes away the fun and experimentation of the game. Starting a new guild and having access to every spell regardless of level may seem like a good thing, but I actually don't like it.
I welcome the having to pick spells out again. I still think, however, that the way spell slots work (or at least, the long-term yield) is in dire need of reconsideration. Primaries get the most slots, but also easily the most strained because of how slot costs are calculated. Magic secondaries and terts have whined about needing more spell choices but they're forgetting that quite a few spell feats are incredibly good, and they can actually afford to pick out most of them without hesitation. Primaries don't have anywhere remotely close to that luxury, and Research(etc.) is just another ball to juggle.
I welcome the having to pick spells out again. I still think, however, that the way spell slots work (or at least, the long-term yield) is in dire need of reconsideration. Primaries get the most slots, but also easily the most strained because of how slot costs are calculated. Magic secondaries and terts have whined about needing more spell choices but they're forgetting that quite a few spell feats are incredibly good, and they can actually afford to pick out most of them without hesitation. Primaries don't have anywhere remotely close to that luxury, and Research(etc.) is just another ball to juggle.
DRFREAK
re: 3.1 release
03/27/2014 09:56 AM CDT
>Magic secondaries and terts have whined about needing more spell choices but they're forgetting that quite a few spell feats are incredibly good
Yeah but after taking 3-4 analogous pattern spells, 7 spell feats and all the necromancer spells. I still have something like 27 spell slots. I refuse to pick stuff I will never use or don't fit my character. I would MUCH rather have the problem of NOT getting something I want but having to choose between cool option 1 or cool option 2.
-Zerreck Arkarm
Yeah but after taking 3-4 analogous pattern spells, 7 spell feats and all the necromancer spells. I still have something like 27 spell slots. I refuse to pick stuff I will never use or don't fit my character. I would MUCH rather have the problem of NOT getting something I want but having to choose between cool option 1 or cool option 2.
-Zerreck Arkarm
NIKPACK
re: 3.1 release
03/27/2014 01:07 PM CDT
<<Starting a new guild and having access to every spell regardless of level may seem like a good thing, but I actually don't like it.
As we've gotten further and further from 3.0's release, I've felt the same way. The preview was certainly necessary (and a long one as well to help catch returning players), but I look forward to a little more restriction and that feeling of accomplishment of gaining a new toy. For right now, the excitement of circling is an influx of TDPs (and remembering to go spend them).
On a tangent, I kinda wish that spells and magical feats were bought using different pools. So for example, you'd gain spell slots at a given rate (maybe one every other level to begin which tapers off as one increases levels) and at another rate (such as one every 5 levels) you'd earn a magical feat slot. This certainly removes the high level of character customization that a single currency provides, but I just feel the current system is a bit too much in that direction.
This feeling of disorganization is highlighted by the fact that one needs to speak with two different people to choose spells and feats. While a minor inconvenience, it perpetuates the system's unkempt and rough feeling. I certainly will be ignoring a large number of my characters come 3.1's release.
Just my opinion though.
Nikpack
As we've gotten further and further from 3.0's release, I've felt the same way. The preview was certainly necessary (and a long one as well to help catch returning players), but I look forward to a little more restriction and that feeling of accomplishment of gaining a new toy. For right now, the excitement of circling is an influx of TDPs (and remembering to go spend them).
On a tangent, I kinda wish that spells and magical feats were bought using different pools. So for example, you'd gain spell slots at a given rate (maybe one every other level to begin which tapers off as one increases levels) and at another rate (such as one every 5 levels) you'd earn a magical feat slot. This certainly removes the high level of character customization that a single currency provides, but I just feel the current system is a bit too much in that direction.
This feeling of disorganization is highlighted by the fact that one needs to speak with two different people to choose spells and feats. While a minor inconvenience, it perpetuates the system's unkempt and rough feeling. I certainly will be ignoring a large number of my characters come 3.1's release.
Just my opinion though.
Nikpack
GNIKOLEYCHUK
re: 3.1 release
03/27/2014 01:08 PM CDT
>>> DRFREAK: Yeah but after taking 3-4 analogous pattern spells, 7 spell feats and all the necromancer spells. I still have something like 27 spell slots.
Just for curiosity sake, what spell feats do you take?
Looking at my list I would consider the following five to be helpful enough that most characters with enough slots should take them:
Cautious Casting, Deep Attunement, Raw Channeling, Efficient Harnessing, and Dedicated Cambrinth Use.
I suspect many characters could find at least a few other feats useful. I also have:
Basic Preparation Recognition, Utility Mastery (due to being a moon mage)
Alternate Preparation (which you would have automatically)
Sorcerous Patterns, Improved Memory, Magic Theorist (no need to comment here)
Augmentation Mastery (no idea why I chose this)
Cautious Harnessing (To save my nerves during astral travel, it may seem silly but there are one slot spells that are less useful)
Just for curiosity sake, what spell feats do you take?
Looking at my list I would consider the following five to be helpful enough that most characters with enough slots should take them:
Cautious Casting, Deep Attunement, Raw Channeling, Efficient Harnessing, and Dedicated Cambrinth Use.
I suspect many characters could find at least a few other feats useful. I also have:
Basic Preparation Recognition, Utility Mastery (due to being a moon mage)
Alternate Preparation (which you would have automatically)
Sorcerous Patterns, Improved Memory, Magic Theorist (no need to comment here)
Augmentation Mastery (no idea why I chose this)
Cautious Harnessing (To save my nerves during astral travel, it may seem silly but there are one slot spells that are less useful)
DR-RAESH
re: 3.1 release
03/27/2014 02:34 PM CDT
Keep in mind a design goal of feats was to help with the problem of everyone having way too many spell slots without having to come up with and code 20 new spells for every guild or whatever.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
TEVESHSZAT
re: 3.1 release
03/27/2014 05:42 PM CDT
>>Yeah but after taking 3-4 analogous pattern spells, 7 spell feats and all the necromancer spells. I still have something like 27 spell slots.
Circle 200 Necro has what, ~80 slots (and a circle 150 is 75ish, right?)?
~45-50 slots for every necro spells
~40 slots for every feat
~20 slots for every analogous spell
I get that someone might not want every feat or every guild spell (let alone every analogous pattern), but the list is only going to expand, not shrink.
As it stands, you can't just blindly grab everything, which to me is a good start. Someone who is magic secondary and 100th (~60 slots) is going to have to really think things through.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Circle 200 Necro has what, ~80 slots (and a circle 150 is 75ish, right?)?
~45-50 slots for every necro spells
~40 slots for every feat
~20 slots for every analogous spell
I get that someone might not want every feat or every guild spell (let alone every analogous pattern), but the list is only going to expand, not shrink.
As it stands, you can't just blindly grab everything, which to me is a good start. Someone who is magic secondary and 100th (~60 slots) is going to have to really think things through.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DRFREAK
re: 3.1 release
03/27/2014 06:43 PM CDT
>Just for curiosity sake, what spell feats do you take?
Just tried to log into test to show you my full purchase using spell slots but test is unavailable right now.
>Keep in mind a design goal of feats was to help with the problem of everyone having way too many spell slots without having to come up with and code 20 new spells for every guild or whatever.
I totally get this. But many of the spell feats have little or no use after awhile. So once your in the 1000-1200 magic skills range the feats stop doing much, or anything at all.
I am not trying to yell about the sky falling or anything. Just the necromancer spell list has been small for awhile, we used to even get every spell by circle 52. While it has grown, we are far from complete.
As a side note i am working on a chart for buffs that each guild gets based on skill set. It's pretty interesting.
-Zerreck Arkarm
DR-RAESH
re: 3.1 release
03/27/2014 08:11 PM CDT
>>As a side note i am working on a chart for buffs that each guild gets based on skill set. It's pretty interesting.
That was my thought when I built such a list (Largely for when I redid SoI). You can see some strong biases towards the 'useful' skills and Evasion is particularly egregious.
Also the fact that, historically, we didn't really do armor or weapon buffs but handled those sorts of things through different mechanics.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
That was my thought when I built such a list (Largely for when I redid SoI). You can see some strong biases towards the 'useful' skills and Evasion is particularly egregious.
Also the fact that, historically, we didn't really do armor or weapon buffs but handled those sorts of things through different mechanics.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
GNIKOLEYCHUK
re: 3.1 release
03/27/2014 10:08 PM CDT
>>>> DR-RAESH: That was my thought when I built such a list (Largely for when I redid SoI). You can see some strong biases towards the 'useful' skills and Evasion is particularly egregious.
Create a spell that buffs first aid and performance and I'll show you a spell that no one takes. Such a spell would be more or less a waste of development time and that fact probably explains the biases I imagine.
Create a spell that buffs first aid and performance and I'll show you a spell that no one takes. Such a spell would be more or less a waste of development time and that fact probably explains the biases I imagine.
RMOCKEN
re: 3.1 release
05/05/2014 06:10 PM CDT
