While researching progress it seems that even while completing a project that you lose some progress, as shown below:
>research utility 300
36 seconds left.
You realize that your project about Utility Patterns Research only requires 36 more seconds of research, so you adjust your plans accordingly.
You confidently begin to bend the mana streams in the air in front of you, testing the limits of your ability to manipulate the world with utility spells.
>
You continue to study Utility magic.
>
You continue to study Utility magic.
>
You continue to study Utility magic.
>
The mule-drawn wagon's driver shouts, "And off we go! We'll be making our way to the Riverhaven ferry. I'll return for more passengers in a short while!"
>
You make definite progress in your project about Utility Patterns Research and decide to take a break. However, there is still more to learn before you arrive at a breakthrough.
>research utility 300
2 seconds left.
You realize that your project about Utility Patterns Research only requires 2 more seconds of research, so you adjust your plans accordingly.
You confidently begin to bend the mana streams in the air in front of you, testing the limits of your ability to manipulate the world with utility spells.
>
You make definite progress in your project about Utility Patterns Research and decide to take a break. However, there is still more to learn before you arrive at a breakthrough.
>research utility 300
1 seconds left.
You realize that your project about Utility Patterns Research only requires 1 more seconds of research, so you adjust your plans accordingly.
You confidently begin to bend the mana streams in the air in front of you, testing the limits of your ability to manipulate the world with utility spells.
>
Breakthrough!
You have woven a Utility pattern that had previously escaped your grasp
GNIKOLEYCHUK
ALDEN
Research
03/03/2014 01:44 AM CST
Is research not working in test right now?
When I type Research I get the three options- cancel, list, status.
When I type list I get need some special means to analyze the mana streams.
When I try to research say Fundamentals, I am asked to designate a time. If I got for 300, it tells me I am missing special means to analyze the mana streams.
LIURIDR
MOCKERJB
Re: Research
03/03/2014 09:15 AM CST
How does GAF work? You just have to have it up in order to research?
LIURIDR
MOCKERJB
Re: Research
03/03/2014 10:12 AM CST
It's a major difference between "having to have it learned" and just "having to have it active" so that's why I ask. Is it castable on other people? Can it be unleashed? These are questions mages need to know!
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Research
03/03/2014 12:42 PM CST
>>It's a major difference between "having to have it learned" and just "having to have it active" so that's why I ask. Is it castable on other people? Can it be unleashed? These are questions mages need to know!
Gauge Flow is a 2 slot, Basic Utility spell. It is not a metaspell, and thus needs to be actively cast and maintained to perform research. It is self-cast only. Potency affects the speed of research. It will be available on scrolls.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Gauge Flow is a 2 slot, Basic Utility spell. It is not a metaspell, and thus needs to be actively cast and maintained to perform research. It is self-cast only. Potency affects the speed of research. It will be available on scrolls.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
MOCKERJB
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/06/2014 01:46 AM CST
This is almost certainly the result of your GAF spell being underpowered. Hmm.
I'll get back to you on this.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
I'll get back to you on this.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/06/2014 03:34 AM CST
Okay, this should be fixed.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
JHALIASCLERIC
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/06/2014 09:20 AM CST
>>Where does one pick up GAF?
AFAIK right now you can just cast it in test naturally, like the synergy spell, but it'll be a store scroll thing like the other Analogous Patterns.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
AFAIK right now you can just cast it in test naturally, like the synergy spell, but it'll be a store scroll thing like the other Analogous Patterns.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/06/2014 11:24 AM CST
>>AFAIK right now you can just cast it in test naturally, like the synergy spell, but it'll be a store scroll thing like the other Analogous Patterns.
Yep, it's on Preview right now in Test, but it will be sold alongside other AP scrolls when we go live.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
Yep, it's on Preview right now in Test, but it will be sold alongside other AP scrolls when we go live.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/11/2014 09:29 PM CDT
>>> DR-ARMIFER: Gauge Flow is a 2 slot, Basic Utility spell.
I have been sort of bothered by this and just have to ask. Why is a system whose only purpose is to gain experience (unless you go beyond the first feat) require a three spell slot buy in. It seems to takes an excessive amount of time to lock skills compared to normal casting (15 minutes per skill is fairly low) and has absolutely no other use that assisting with training spell gaps. In fact, 4 slots for what is essentially a small suit of mutually exclusive buffs also seems quite excessive but at least is actually does something other than facilitate training.
I have been sort of bothered by this and just have to ask. Why is a system whose only purpose is to gain experience (unless you go beyond the first feat) require a three spell slot buy in. It seems to takes an excessive amount of time to lock skills compared to normal casting (15 minutes per skill is fairly low) and has absolutely no other use that assisting with training spell gaps. In fact, 4 slots for what is essentially a small suit of mutually exclusive buffs also seems quite excessive but at least is actually does something other than facilitate training.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/11/2014 09:33 PM CDT
>>I have been sort of bothered by this and just have to ask. Why is a system whose only purpose is to gain experience (unless you go beyond the first feat) require a three spell slot buy in.
Gauge Flow will be a store-bought scroll spell, and I fully expect people to use that fact to their benefit.
>>It seems to takes an excessive amount of time to lock skills compared to normal casting (15 minutes per skill is fairly low) and has absolutely no other use that assisting with training spell gaps.
With a max Potency Gauge Flow, you should be looking at completing research in about 12 minutes and change, which is still slower than what we want straight casting to give but not by a great margin.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Gauge Flow will be a store-bought scroll spell, and I fully expect people to use that fact to their benefit.
>>It seems to takes an excessive amount of time to lock skills compared to normal casting (15 minutes per skill is fairly low) and has absolutely no other use that assisting with training spell gaps.
With a max Potency Gauge Flow, you should be looking at completing research in about 12 minutes and change, which is still slower than what we want straight casting to give but not by a great margin.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/11/2014 09:41 PM CDT
>>>> ARMIFER: Gauge Flow will be a store-bought scroll spell, and I fully expect people to use that fact to their benefit.
That makes it a two slot buy in then (I either lose the opportunity to use a scroll or need to spend a slot to get an extra scroll slot). I don't personally see it as much better. Of course I won't need to waste a slot on a sorcery training spell and can release and relearn GF at will, but there is still an opportunity cost since I can either use research or make maximum use of scrolls.
>>>> ARMIFER: With a max Potency Gauge Flow, you should be looking at completing research in about 12 minutes and change, which is still slower than what we want straight casting to give but not by a great margin.
The thing is with 12 minutes of straight casting I will probably lock primary magic or sorcery, one other magic skill and attunement or arcana (and probably both if I toss in a power every minute or so and use a cambrinth). That works out to one skill per four minutes (or three if you let me use the power argument).
The reason I am questioning this is the system seems interesting enough and has some inherent advantages to it. For some guilds it may even be near essential (necromancers). I want to like it and use it but the buy in seems too high.
That makes it a two slot buy in then (I either lose the opportunity to use a scroll or need to spend a slot to get an extra scroll slot). I don't personally see it as much better. Of course I won't need to waste a slot on a sorcery training spell and can release and relearn GF at will, but there is still an opportunity cost since I can either use research or make maximum use of scrolls.
>>>> ARMIFER: With a max Potency Gauge Flow, you should be looking at completing research in about 12 minutes and change, which is still slower than what we want straight casting to give but not by a great margin.
The thing is with 12 minutes of straight casting I will probably lock primary magic or sorcery, one other magic skill and attunement or arcana (and probably both if I toss in a power every minute or so and use a cambrinth). That works out to one skill per four minutes (or three if you let me use the power argument).
The reason I am questioning this is the system seems interesting enough and has some inherent advantages to it. For some guilds it may even be near essential (necromancers). I want to like it and use it but the buy in seems too high.
MOCKERJB
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/11/2014 10:30 PM CDT
Do you need gauge flow for research and symbiotic casting (after the symbiosis is researched), or just the research? In other words, can I learn the spell temporarily via scroll, research what I need, then forget the spell and still cast with the symbiosis effect I researched?
2DUMBARSE
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/11/2014 11:15 PM CDT
>Do you need gauge flow for research and symbiotic casting (after the symbiosis is researched), or just the research? In other words, can I learn the spell temporarily via scroll, research what I need, then forget the spell and still cast with the symbiosis effect I researched?
From my testing, you don't need gauge flows to cast symbioses; need it to research the symbiosis but not to cast it.
From my testing, you don't need gauge flows to cast symbioses; need it to research the symbiosis but not to cast it.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/12/2014 01:39 AM CDT
>>The thing is with 12 minutes of straight casting I will probably lock primary magic or sorcery, one other magic skill and attunement or arcana (and probably both if I toss in a power every minute or so and use a cambrinth).
To be clear, RESEARCH is not and has never been intended to be a BETTER way to learn skills. In fact, it's very likely that it will be a strictly less optimal way to train skills, vs somebody who's optimizing their experience gains via casting. This is due to a relatively low barrier to entry (a scroll slot or 2 spell slots to train all but 2 magic skills) and limited need for engagement - It's a more simple system that balances the effort you have to put in with the benefit you get out of it.
I don't imagine powergamers using RESEARCH as a primary means of gaining experience. I imagine RESEARCH to be a vector through which non-powergamers still gain a reasonable amount of experience without having to spend their time in-game chain-casting spells and cluttering up the time they spend enjoying the non-training parts of the game.
>>From my testing, you don't need gauge flows to cast symbioses; need it to research the symbiosis but not to cast i
This is correct. GAF is required for all things related to actively researching magical things. Once you've researched a symbiosis, it remains fresh enough that you don't need GAF to remember the tweaks you're making to the spell patterns.
>>>>I have been sort of bothered by this and just have to ask. Why is a system whose only purpose is to gain experience (unless you go beyond the first feat) require a three spell slot buy in.
This is a system that represents a dedication to magical scholarship. The entry cost might be too high for some, but the fact that it requires either a scroll slot or 2 spell slots to access the experience-granting projects, and 1 slot for the symbioses, means that you can gain access to an entirely different way of engaging with the magic system for 1 spell slot plus either a temporary scroll or a permanent 2 spell slots.
It's a mistake to call it a 'system whose only purpose is to gain experience'. While it does offer experience to people that have certain gaps in their spell list, this system has far more potential than simply being an experience gaining system. The system at its base level is definitely limited, but there's a lot of easy growth potential there that we can leverage instead of simply trying to cram more spells into the spell lists.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
To be clear, RESEARCH is not and has never been intended to be a BETTER way to learn skills. In fact, it's very likely that it will be a strictly less optimal way to train skills, vs somebody who's optimizing their experience gains via casting. This is due to a relatively low barrier to entry (a scroll slot or 2 spell slots to train all but 2 magic skills) and limited need for engagement - It's a more simple system that balances the effort you have to put in with the benefit you get out of it.
I don't imagine powergamers using RESEARCH as a primary means of gaining experience. I imagine RESEARCH to be a vector through which non-powergamers still gain a reasonable amount of experience without having to spend their time in-game chain-casting spells and cluttering up the time they spend enjoying the non-training parts of the game.
>>From my testing, you don't need gauge flows to cast symbioses; need it to research the symbiosis but not to cast i
This is correct. GAF is required for all things related to actively researching magical things. Once you've researched a symbiosis, it remains fresh enough that you don't need GAF to remember the tweaks you're making to the spell patterns.
>>>>I have been sort of bothered by this and just have to ask. Why is a system whose only purpose is to gain experience (unless you go beyond the first feat) require a three spell slot buy in.
This is a system that represents a dedication to magical scholarship. The entry cost might be too high for some, but the fact that it requires either a scroll slot or 2 spell slots to access the experience-granting projects, and 1 slot for the symbioses, means that you can gain access to an entirely different way of engaging with the magic system for 1 spell slot plus either a temporary scroll or a permanent 2 spell slots.
It's a mistake to call it a 'system whose only purpose is to gain experience'. While it does offer experience to people that have certain gaps in their spell list, this system has far more potential than simply being an experience gaining system. The system at its base level is definitely limited, but there's a lot of easy growth potential there that we can leverage instead of simply trying to cram more spells into the spell lists.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/12/2014 09:42 AM CDT
>>>> DR-SOCHARIS: It's a mistake to call it a 'system whose only purpose is to gain experience'. While it does offer experience to people that have certain gaps in their spell list, this system has far more potential than simply being an experience gaining system. The system at its base level is definitely limited, but there's a lot of easy growth potential there that we can leverage instead of simply trying to cram more spells into the spell lists.
Hmmmm. Well, I guess I have to wait and see whatever else you have planned for the system then. I was under the apparently incorrect assumption that it had already reached it's planned scope.
Hmmmm. Well, I guess I have to wait and see whatever else you have planned for the system then. I was under the apparently incorrect assumption that it had already reached it's planned scope.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/12/2014 10:27 AM CDT
There's been discussion about their plans to add perks to barriers.
The gyst of SYMBIOSIS is 'adds modifiers to spells', and presently, there are only a handful of skill buffs and stat buffs. There's enormous room for growth with this system.
The gyst of SYMBIOSIS is 'adds modifiers to spells', and presently, there are only a handful of skill buffs and stat buffs. There's enormous room for growth with this system.
2DUMBARSE
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/12/2014 11:12 AM CDT
I don't think it's fair to state or imply the system is not useful now. It's only in its infant stages and what's available already is pretty great. Just look at what symbiosis alone gives you:
1. For less than the cost of one of some spells, you gain full access
2. You get a half-strength buff for every stat and less-common skill buffs (it actually fills a perceived gap for me nicely)
3. You get a means of making it so a spell that trains only one type of magic train can train two
4. You get a way to continue training magic into the 1000s off basic spells for only the extra effort of simply typing "prep symbiosis"
Nothing is ever released as, "This is totally done and we're never going to dedicate time to the evolution of this system." And I think it's nice to have a way to train magic through research during RP events, where spamming casts is generally frowned upon.
The foundation for the system is the most important part. The stuff that comes after is just icing on the cake.
1. For less than the cost of one of some spells, you gain full access
2. You get a half-strength buff for every stat and less-common skill buffs (it actually fills a perceived gap for me nicely)
3. You get a means of making it so a spell that trains only one type of magic train can train two
4. You get a way to continue training magic into the 1000s off basic spells for only the extra effort of simply typing "prep symbiosis"
Nothing is ever released as, "This is totally done and we're never going to dedicate time to the evolution of this system." And I think it's nice to have a way to train magic through research during RP events, where spamming casts is generally frowned upon.
The foundation for the system is the most important part. The stuff that comes after is just icing on the cake.
TIGARCLAW
Re: Research "Progress Leak"
03/14/2014 10:27 PM CDT
>>I don't think it's fair to state or imply the system is not useful now.
Folks need to remember why Research was introduced in the first place. To "plug" the issue of high level mages not being able to learn certain schools of magic from Basic/Intro spells since they have too many ranks to learn from those spells as of 3.1 As some guilds do not have advanced spells they can use in every school of magic to learn not to mention that a LOT of spells which are advanced do not have desirable benefits that anyone wants to cast except as a necessity to learn X school of magic.
So the idea was introduce Research/Symbiosis make that favourite Basic/Intro spell x times as hard AND make it teach once again even at high levels AND give it a secondary benefit at the cost of messing around with Research.
I think its a bandaid solution that just adds unecessary layers. But that was an oppinion I stated already and dont wish to beat a dead horse.
Folks need to remember why Research was introduced in the first place. To "plug" the issue of high level mages not being able to learn certain schools of magic from Basic/Intro spells since they have too many ranks to learn from those spells as of 3.1 As some guilds do not have advanced spells they can use in every school of magic to learn not to mention that a LOT of spells which are advanced do not have desirable benefits that anyone wants to cast except as a necessity to learn X school of magic.
So the idea was introduce Research/Symbiosis make that favourite Basic/Intro spell x times as hard AND make it teach once again even at high levels AND give it a secondary benefit at the cost of messing around with Research.
I think its a bandaid solution that just adds unecessary layers. But that was an oppinion I stated already and dont wish to beat a dead horse.
