>>>>but once you have your Symbiosis memorized its just a simple 'Prep symb' command to boost spell difficulty.

You are forgetting several things:

You need spell slots for these feats. There are a very limited number of slots to begin with especialy anywhere PRE 100th.

In order to do a Symbiosis you have to sit there not even BLINKING for a very long time staring into space. Literaly cant do most things till its done. Most other systems/activities are not that exculusive/punitive.

There still is no sytem in place where you can "rechose" your slots that is user friendly to accomodate for the complexity of what you will need down the road as you get more andm ore ranks vs how many spell slots you got vs what is going to cost what when you need it.

To "map" it out you literally need a calculator and such if you are already 150+ before you chose anything. I can see folks spending HOURS figguring this out and making mistakes that they are "stuck" with.

There is really no "choice" for a good number of guilds as various magic using guilds are missing "Advanced" spells that teach X school of magic. So basicaly you either "drink the coolaid" or abandon what you need.

I am a fan of change and get ecited about challanges. Not excited about going back to the "grind" I have spent years and years doing the grind (played on-off since 1999). This whole thing is basicaly back to the grind to me. Again you are entitled to your opinion much like I am to mine. You think its reat. I think its cumbersome, complex and just adding unecessary layers.

>>but I think it's a huge stretch for anyone to suggest that adding symbiosis use into a training routine is complex

I picked that as one point. If you think MM have it bad look at War Mages. They have GAZILLION spells definately hard choices to make. Pretty sure Clerics will be in the same boat.

The concept I am speaking to is where things are being added as "extra" steps to do things we have been doing for SOOO many years without those steps.

Khri Meditate
Barb Meditate Research

Not just magic resaerch/symbiosis.

I still find it amusing that barb abilities are NOT magic yet they run off of InnerFire and they have Debilitation, Augmentation and Warding like magic users do which run off mana - inner fire - concentration.

I imagine for the sake of simplicity in relation to being able to "mesh" these systems they had to be "aligned" so perhaps a necessary evil there. But every time I see those InnerFire, debilitation, etc. ranks on my Barb it makes me think MAGIC and I chuckle.

>>The concept I am speaking to is where things are being added as "extra" steps to do things we have been doing for SOOO many years without those steps.

Except you didn't have these skills before last year... and spells have always stopped training after a point. You always had to cast hard spells and use a lot of mana to learn well. And that was back before Cambrinth had its RT slashed by 90%. And now you have a way to ensure easy spells train forever. How is that a bad thing?

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Huh... It only took me 2 seconds to charge a cambrinth armband with 15 mana, and 1 second to invoke it. With 100 arcana. That compares with what I believe used to be 2 seconds to charge, and 8 seconds to focus previously? What am I missing here?

I dunno, we could make everyone immune to combat damage and there would still be complaints that riding the minecart in the greater fist was potentially lethal :(

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>>This wasn't me complaining. I just wanted to correct a misconception. I can't speak for the learning experience of others, but mine seems fine.

For what it's worth, I would very much like some shaving done to cambrinth RT. Right now it takes me 6+ seconds longer to fill my cambrinth than it does to prep the spell (26 seconds to fill two 50-mana items). And I am not a low level mage. In fact, it only gets worse at higher levels because you need more mana in your spells.

Mainly, it would be nice if Arcana ranks interacted meaningfully with the system. Right now, RT is determined entirely by amount of mana charged. There's no skill factor.

I don't mean to add anything urgently to your plate though. I just wanted to speak up so you would know.


-- Player of Eyuve

>>Cambrinth is RT intensive, but really efficient at saving Attunement. I believe that is its current design niche.

As much as I am not a fan of lengthy RT this is a saving grace and I use it for that feature as much as anything else when casting spells.

>Huh... It only took me 2 seconds to charge a cambrinth armband with 15 mana, and 1 second to invoke it. With 100 arcana. That compares with what I believe used to be 2 seconds to charge, and 8 seconds to focus previously? What am I missing here?

Try doing this in prime for starters. Having an actual representation of live in your dev environment would be important and give you accurate data. Your tests arent what's implemented in prime. Cambrinth RT is extremely high compared to 2.0, if its intended, great, but at ldast sync your environments so you can make factual comparisons.

It looks like there was a bug specific to Kodius in Dev. Woo!

Cambrinth IS intended to take longer to use now. There are more options for using it (with cyclics, etc), and it works brilliantly as a mana battery. As we add more high-capacity cambrinth, the benefits will become clear.

On to some replies:

>>You need spell slots for these feats. There are a very limited number of slots to begin with especialy anywhere PRE 100th.

You need one spell slot to get access to the basic set of Augmentation symbioses. One more slot will get you access to the Warding symbioses (once we get those out). This is specifically designed so that instead of spending slots on a bunch of prereqs you don't want just to get access to high-tier spells, you can use symbioses to fill your non-combat gaps. You also need two spell slots to access RESEARCH in general, iirc.

>>In order to do a Symbiosis you have to sit there not even BLINKING for a very long time staring into space. Literaly cant do most things till its done. Most other systems/activities are not that exculusive/punitive.

You are making this up. This is incorrect on basically every level. You are restricted from:

- Climbing
- Stalking
- Swimming
- Hiding
- Casting spells
- Playing instruments
- Crafting
- Engaging in combat

You're very explicitly capable of engaging in nearly all RP activities, which was a core goal of this system. You just can't work it into your combat script with any regularity (though you can use it to fill gaps in critters if you want).

>>There still is no sytem in place where you can "rechose" your slots that is user friendly to accomodate for the complexity of what you will need down the road as you get more andm ore ranks vs how many spell slots you got vs what is going to cost what when you need it.

Correct. You have to make decisions that are permanent for your character.

>>To "map" it out you literally need a calculator and such if you are already 150+ before you chose anything. I can see folks spending HOURS figguring this out and making mistakes that they are "stuck" with.

As opposed to flailing about wildly for anything to gripe about, you could ask "What are your plans for dealing with this?" If you'd asked that, I'd have told you that we'll have a 3-week preview period, followed by a period allowing spell respecs similar to the DR3 conversion.

>>There is really no "choice" for a good number of guilds as various magic using guilds are missing "Advanced" spells that teach X school of magic. So basicaly you either "drink the coolaid" or abandon what you need.

Which is why we introduced the RESEARCH system to allow you to make intelligent choices about what you want rather than forcing you down a road.

Please stop posting needlessly inflammatory misinformation. Constructive discussion is good, yelling really really loud isn't. Please consider this when you post.

--

"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

>Correct. You have to make decisions that are permanent for your character.

The problem I have with this is that the game changes, abilities change, new spells are released, etc. The problem with making spell selection permanent is that you can screw yourself out of the neat new thing that comes along 5 years down the road.

If it didn't take years of gameplay to build a character to the higher circles, this wouldn't be as big of a deal. But if you make the wrong choice, it can really hurt.

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Don't forget to vote:

http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html

I'm curious about the future plans for Symbiosis and Research. Particularly what kind of Aug/Warding perks will be considered.

I think the system stands as a potentially really fantastic way of deepening functionality of all MUs spells. I'd hope, for example, that an Aug Symbiosis could be 'adds a light source to a spell', or that there could be the potential (as a feat) to utilize 2 Symbioses at once. Just wondering what else is on the table.