Hobbes obviously did not consider the platypus.

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~Talo, Prydaen Barbarian~

No you

>Why do the people that complain about gwethsmashers all sound ridiculous?

Why do you think they were smashed in the first place, thereby prompting their complaint about gwethsmashers?

makes sense.


Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html

> I've seen all of like, one well-written and thoughtful complaint about gwethsmashers, and Armifer took the time to respond to that one personally.

> And shockingly, the guy responded saying his perspective had changed as a result.

Wow! A compliment. Thanks Reene! ^^ Can I use that as my sig? ^^

I am a sucker for logic. I'm strange that way. If it sounds logical, I will consider your argument. Armifier did just that, AND took the time to respond directly. Of course, if you go into an argument unwilling to accept the possibility that you are wrong or that there is another way to look at things, then you can't expect others to. I choose the former.

Earlier today I was gwethsmashed today by a player who had been mildly harassing me. In my opinion I did not say anything over the gweth which would warrant the smash; rather, the player used this mechanism to express his annoyance with me for other interactions.

Right now, at the rate that I play and gain money, it would take me about a week to replace my gweths. In my opinion, it is incredibly unfair - especially to "younger" and more casual players like myself - that some random bloke can decide to use a gwethsmasher in this way, causing me to have to waste my time for a week replacing the gweths. It doesn't help that gwethsmashing grants consent, considering there is no way I could kill this fellow. And even if I DID kill him I would still have to waste a week replacing the items he destroyed.

If GM's could at least have the option to consider a player's circumstances in replacing gweths after a gwethsmash, then I don't think this would be an issue. However, the current policy enables bullying. The fact that I now have to waste a week trying to replace items which can be instantly destroyed by another player on a whim is very frustrating.

I could actually see an argument for temporarily setting a smasher to Open in light of the upcoming change to stealing and profile, but yeah, getting smashed is part of being on the gweths. At this point almost all gwethsmasher discussions go right to the cemetary.

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The pulzone lands a powerful strike that pokes the steel-tipped pulzone into the gryphon's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
The steel-tipped pulzone lodges itself shallowly into the forest gryphon!

Hi, and welcome to the wonderful world we call Elanthia! You seem to be confused with the "MU" part of the term MUD. It means Multi-User. That means that you may have to interact with others. Some of these may include the friendly Empath who takes your wounds onto themselves. Some may be the Master Player Bard, entertaining you while you enjoy your ale (or other spirited or non-spirited beverage).

However, not all of these other people are going to have your best interest at heart. Some may be brigands trying to make off with your money. Some may be crotchety old timers who think you youngsters have it too easy. Some may even just plain not like you for any particular reason. Interacting with these kinds of people and others are what makes Elanthia "Real", and fun. After all, what good is a story without a bad guy?

>>In my opinion I did not say anything over the gweth which would warrant the smash

Allow me to direct you to a quote from news 2 26:

>>There does not have to be a justification for a smashing. Having Consent does not guarantee you will get your satisfaction. It guarantees you the option to attempt it, not success. That said, the entire system is being monitored closely for abuse.

>>Right now, at the rate that I play and gain money, it would take me about a week to replace my gweths.

Heavens to Betsy! A whole WEEK?!?

>>In my opinion, it is incredibly unfair - especially to "younger" and more casual players like myself - that some random bloke can decide to use a gwethsmasher in this way, causing me to have to waste my time for a week replacing the gweths.

If you can't afford those Gweths[J and K Gweths], there are always the limited use Gweths, whose names escape me at the moment.

I understand you feel wronged, but you have not presented any solid reasoning/justification for why it [Policy] should be changed. All you have posted is a whine that you got smashed and didn't like it.

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-TG, TG, & GL, et al.

>> You obviously haven't been to the Crossing Empath Guild's Infirmary lately.

I've found them all quite friendly.

I'd also love to see the gweths that actually lead up to this.

---

Rev. Reene

Reene: tie a scimitar to your fist.
Kystrk: that would just be unrealistic
Reene: because jump kicking someone from hiding and vaporizing their skull is super realistic
Kystrk: I was wearing footwraps

You're right I have no evidence on whether or not what the OP said was true.

But I have seen it happen myself to players.. who aren't noobs, but in the younger/casual bracket range, for no good reason at all.

Last time I tried to point it out, my post got misinterpreted and derailed to..

"noobs shouldn't have gweths anyways"

or

"they should learn proper gweth etiquette"

The point is that they may not be noobs, just not the hardcore bunch, and that they get smashed for no good reason at all, so learning proper gweth etiquette is useless.


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"All models are wrong, some are useful." -George C. Box

No good reason

-A sincere request for help on a quest..

-A very polite and cordial request to stop aggressive behavior.

I don't save logs, because I figure gwethsmashing is not likely to change, and that logs can be doctored, and also no one cares. But if you want, next time I see it happen I'll send you the log.


---
"All models are wrong, some are useful." -George C. Box

These threads make me chuckle. I wish people would hand these 'casual/newer players' an albredine ring to let them practice with before setting them loose on the masses with a set of gweths.

---

The pulzone lands a powerful strike that pokes the steel-tipped pulzone into the gryphon's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
The steel-tipped pulzone lodges itself shallowly into the forest gryphon!

Thanks, everyone, for your responses. Primarily, I posted this so that it would get read by the simu folks, but your responses have been helpful. Another player has kindly donated new gweths to me, and indeed I've found players to be overwhelmingly nice and helpful in DR. It's one of the main reasons I've kept coming back to it ever since it was on AOL.

>> Interacting with these kinds of people and others are what makes Elanthia "Real", and fun. After all, what good is a story without a bad guy?

I really appreciated this comment, and I appreciate the incredible attention to detail which makes the game feel more real. Beyond this gwethsmashing incident, DR provides a number of avenues for negotiating conflict while keeping the game immersive and fun, and I love that.

It seems to me that the issue at hand is negotiating the balance between realism and fun. Because it is a game after all, and presumably we're meant to have fun in real life while playing it. If the game were completely "real" than novices could be stolen from and a high-powered player could kill them with little fear of consequences. That's not the case, probably in part because it would be seriously not fun to have your throat slit and money taken as soon as you were finished creating your character.

The only other method I know of for "policing" DR is thumping, and in my opinion that's a great option. It doesn't have any long-term effect on the thumpee and it gets your point across. (BTW if there are other options, I would love to know them).

But gwethsmashing is different in that it instantly destroys someone's in-game property. (As far as I know, there is no other game mechanism which allows this.) DR policy is basically that gwethsmashing is automatically a NOGM issue, and as Grim has pointed out, gwethsmashing can be done for any reason whatsoever.

As far as I know, this differs from the policy on killing - I understand that you need consent to kill someone, and that you can't go around killing people just because you feel like it and that such killing will always be a NOGM issue. It's not fun to have someone going around killing people just because they feel like it. In my opinion, it's also not fun to have someone going and destroying your property for no reason whatsoever.

>>Heavens to Betsy! A whole WEEK?!?

That's the crux of the matter. Gwethsmashing - destroying someone's in-game property - allows players to "steal" real-life time from others. Just as the consequence of being killed is needing to spend time (usually an hour at most) getting rezzed, or departing, or whatever, the consequence of having your property instantly destroyed is that you must spend time replacing it. In my case, it would take at least a week of grinding. A week may not be important to you, but it's important to me.

I don't have a lot of time to sit back and relax. But I like to spend a good portion of my free time on DR. It's a great way to have fun after a long day. However, the idea that I would have to spend an entire week of my free time grinding instead of actually having a fun time in a game is absurd.

(By the way, even if I chose not to replace the gweths, as some have suggested, I have still "lost" the time spent getting the original gweths in the first place.)

If gwethsmashers merely prevented you from gwething for an hour, or if GM's could elect to replace your gweths, then the realism and fun of the system would be in balance. Even having the gweths merely lose a charge would be better than what's in place now. Has gweth "thumping" been tried in DR? I'd be curious to know if it has been tried, and why it was rejected.

Thanks again everyone for your feedback.

>>As far as I know, this differs from the policy on killing - I understand that you need consent to kill someone, and that you can't go around killing people just because you feel like it and that such killing will always be a NOGM issue.<<

This is not true. Nobody needs "consent" to kill anyone else. There are people who have their PROFILE set to open... they can be killed at any time for any reason. There are other people who have their PROFILE set to guarded, and they can be killed if the RP situation warrants it. And then there are people who are going to kill you anyway, because it is fun for them, and they don't care if you report, assist, or anything else. These are few and far between, but they are out there.

My personal philosophy on this is, even if you get killed for absolutely no reason, NEVER report. EVER. Consider it a hazard of the game you are playing, and RP your way through it without running and whining to the GM's.

While some people may think that just because you pay a monthly subscription fee and everyone should be all care bear huggy smoochie toward you all the time... This is unrealistic in the extreme. Conflicts occur. People die. Stuff gets stolen and/or graverobbed. Gweths get smashed. So what? Learn to RP in the good times and in the bad, and you'll find yourself enjoying the game more thoroughly.


________________________________________

If it helps, just think of yourself as the fluorescent light in the buglamp of life.

- GM Dartenian

Thank you Miv, dguthrie2, and tktempest for your responses. For me, the issue is closed and I won't be checking back here much, if at all. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to write a response, and thanks especially to the player who helped me out in game. Have fun, and I'll see you in DR :)

p.s. Miv, I hope you find a way to get your water back.

>Sometimes people do gwethsmash for no good reason. The price of having a player moderated system is some abuse.

I've had my gweths smashed a couple times by only one person. One of which was not for a very good reason IMO.

>>Moral? People don't just randomly gweth smash. There was/is probably a good explanation that you just don't see.<<

Yup. I got smashed when I first returned to prime. I used an "LOL" over the gweth, realized it immediately and tried to cover my backside by saying "LOL is short for lollygagging around, which is what I'm doing right now..." Boom. Smashed. Tercsyn was the culprit and it was no big deal. Lesson learned, and never repeated again. Overall a very positive experience for me.


________________________________________

If it helps, just think of yourself as the fluorescent light in the buglamp of life.

- GM Dartenian

i got smashed for asking for help for someone completely unrelated to me that was dead in rossmans. also by krugler. I don't like the idea that people can just smash for no reason at all, although I do have perma-gweths, not for reasons of gwethsmashers, but because of the jail system. Even with the new justice systems of "everything wearable in the sack" where you don't have to spend time getting dressed <thanx Z> the guards are still heavy-handed enough that it uses up a gweth charge when you end up in jail.


It's a number, it gets bigger. That's the whole DR experience right there

My not have the gwethsmasher only hit one charge of the gweths, I'm pretty sure that a youngster or kind young person that just bought some gweths that to Them are expensive, just to have them destroyed with IE no recourse. (complaining about gweths can't kill the smasher, no money so can't hire someone todo it) You could leave in the timers on it, I believe it's 1 hour before you can use another gweth? Give's them warnings about what they are doing with slight penalties, I'm sure they probably wouldn't complain so much either...


Hurray for bad grammer.