Warklin 02/02/2013 11:10 AM CST
As Warklin in the stone clan mines are actually getting popular, would it be possible to up the spawn a little?

almost a week straight it seems like one person is taking all the spawn, and if there are 3 people they literally just dont spawn enough.

It's a 6~ room area, I think more than a max of 7 Warklin might be called for.

Thanks.
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Re: Warklin 02/02/2013 02:10 PM CST
Agreed. I tried them but stopped hunting there cause of this sadly.
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Re: Warklin 02/02/2013 07:18 PM CST
While I'm not against spawn being upped, you don't have to let someone ruin your hunting because they are hogging the spawn. You can be nice and ask them to kill some so others can hunt, if they don't then you kill the critters for them. Win-win.
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Re: Warklin 02/02/2013 08:14 PM CST
>>While I'm not against spawn being upped, you don't have to let someone ruin your hunting because they are hogging the spawn. You can be nice and ask them to kill some so others can hunt, if they don't then you kill the critters for them. Win-win.

Warklins are a bit different than normal since anyone in the area to mine would automatically hog the spawn, with no intention of ever killing anything. It really ought to be set at 4 per hunter as the max spawn cap, since you'll often have "hunters" in the area dancing with 4 at a time that they don't even learn defenses from

Apu
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Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 09:15 AM CST
Basicly exactly as Apu said, not to mention that there is still a 7 creature hard cap in this area, even if one hunter is really cool with the request and only dances with 3, ultimately there just aren't enough Warklin right now.

Just to use yesterday as an example, I tried hunting there four times over the course of 10 hours, every single time I went in there, the SAME person was there dancing with 4, and was training on them, not mining, not to mention the other players that stopped in, got frustrated and left.

Kind of a quick critical mass situation, unfortunately.
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 12:18 PM CST
It's gotten pretty bad.

If I'm training TM or Bow, I might get 4 on me for awhile because I can't kill them very well, but otherwise I'm trying to kill them as fast as possible. Even with one other hunter it kinda blows.

They are a great critter to hunt, and cover an important skill range. It would be nice to have an uptick.

Thanks
GENT
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 12:45 PM CST
Yeah, I just asked another hunter who's dancing with four to kill one of them, and (I guess owning to the slower rate of killing things), the speed with which they can kill them means they're dancing with four even without meaning to do so. It's kinda awful to sit here with one or none to fight, as I'm actually capable of killing them at a rate that outpaces their spawn. I suppose I'd also support an uptick in the cap, if people are going to be training in a such a way that limits sharing of the warklin with current settings.

-Broichan Leshyahen

> hum tuneless
You hum a tuneless tune.
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 12:54 PM CST
I don't know what the original need for spawn caps was, but there have been a lot of changes over the last few years.

Seems to me, critters should just spawn 4 per player with no area caps. Every other week there is someone asking for an area to have it fixed, and it's always the same thing... JoeBlow dances with 4, the spawn is too low for everyone else.

Also, is it just me, or is the balance of players tipping towards 80+ rather than <80? Seems the top of the pyramid is becoming a bit wider.

Time for someone to come up with some end game ideas.



Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 01:03 PM CST
>Seems to me, critters should just spawn 4 per player with no area caps. Every other week there is someone asking for an area to have it fixed, and it's always the same thing... JoeBlow dances with 4, the spawn is too low for everyone else.

It's because if 100 people cram into sprites, and you suddenly generate 400+ sprites, the game would crash, and likely violently corrupt itself.



Note: this is not a plug for Genie or Elanthipedia or Mars Bars.
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 01:07 PM CST
>>Seems to me, critters should just spawn 4 per player with no area caps.

A million times this. There is absolutely no justification for ANY creature anywhere to have its spawn rate ruined solely due to the actions of players in other rooms.

Not all creatures need to spawn super fast, so it is fine to turn the spawn rates lower in some areas, or decrease the efficiency that they move from room to room and find hunters (I'm not sure how that works but GMs have mentioned it as if it is something they can control). But it's beyond silly to have hunting ground spawn caps of X per hunter with anything other than X = 4.

Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 01:17 PM CST
>>It's because if 100 people cram into sprites, and you suddenly generate 400+ sprites, the game would crash, and likely violently corrupt itself.

So since 400+ creatures in the same area would supposedly crash the game (this claim is based on what evidence? who knows), we have to limit certain areas to 7 creatures? To put it mildly, this is not a valid argument.

Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 01:22 PM CST
That makes no sense... It should use less resources if you had 100 people in one hunting area then 100 people in several. 400 creatures is 400 creatures is 400 creatures, regardless of where their located in the game(barring creatures/area having special mechanics). The more people in one area should mean less areas "active" which should mean overall less resources are being used. Now I could see too many people and creatures in one room being an issue given some of the skill mechanics, but not too many in a hunting area.
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 02:05 PM CST
5 year old argument. It was always "wait until 3.0 hits."

Well, we are here.

(Not that area limits should have been affected by 3.0, but it was a convenient excuse.)
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 02:07 PM CST
I think the "wait until 3.0 hits" response was always in reference to the fact that dancing with four at a time was initially going to be made much, much more dangerous and just not worth it and people were going to be killing things at a steady clip to avoid being overwhelmed. But that seemed to have been abandoned at some point during the process.
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 02:32 PM CST
>>dancing with four at a time was initially going to be made much, much more dangerous

The problem with this is that they failed to address everything at once. In order to have done this they would have had to:

1) Increase the time it took to kill things
2) Make more having more than 2 critters on you dangerous, 3 very hard, and 4 suicide
3) Made critter spawn slower and work on critter AI

I think #3 was just too big to fit in the scope of 3.0 so they punted.

It's a shame, because the concept of multiple opponents ganging up on a bigger opponent getting harder and harder and harder was really brilliant. It would have been great for RP and it would have made 4 on 1, 6 on 2, boss mechanics really neat. While the latter is a work in progress, I think multi opponent mechanics would have been an epic game concept.

As it is now, people are mostly hunting the same hunting grounds, with less danger of dying and still using critter swarm to learn faster.

Before 3.0, I could barely stand in celps without dying, after 3.0 I'm standing in there with 3-4 on me, laughing at them as a spam cast a spell that can't even hit them and learning very well.




Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 02:41 PM CST
>> I think multi opponent mechanics would have been an epic game concept.

There still is a multi opponent mechanic, it's driven by Defending now instead of a skill that does nothing but handle MO. When the Test server as first opened to the public having 3-4 critters on you was quite dangerous, and was killing most people in their typical hunting ground. It seems Kodius has cranked it way down because everyone was complaining about having to move down because they couldn't handle more than 2-3 of what taught them. I feel it could be turned up a little bit more as I notice a difference with 4 on me, but it's not all that dangerous to have it. It could also be that my Defending skill is about 100 over what my MO was before it disappeared.
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 02:42 PM CST
>So since 400+ creatures in the same area would supposedly crash the game (this claim is based on what evidence? who knows), we have to limit certain areas to 7 creatures? To put it mildly, this is not a valid argument.

1: That is the answer I was given when I asked GMs about area spawn caps, in a similar complaint. Somewhere in the critter folders.

2: The response was directed specifically at 'why are there global area spawn caps'. Nothing else.



Note: this is not a plug for Genie or Elanthipedia or Mars Bars.
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 02:46 PM CST
>>(Not that area limits should have been affected by 3.0, but it was a convenient excuse.)

To be fair, this was more of a stupid excuse repeated by players. The GMs actually did change several hunting grounds in the months leading up to 3.0, since it was always obvious that 3.0 wasn't possibly going to change things so that it makes sense for spawn rates to be heavily affected by players in other rooms

Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 07:07 PM CST
Last post I'll make regarding this, but to conclude my request for this to be looked at, there are now 4(maybe more, just in hunt range for me as a survival tertiary) people in warklin, and has been for ten plus minutes, due to this, I have not seen a single warklin, the cap literally prevents there from ever being enough critters here for this many players.

Even being kind, good luck training weapons in this situation, here's hoping it's addressed soon.
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 07:19 PM CST
Just to repeat, this really should be fixed. Its sad cause for me these would be the perfect creatures to hunt but the spawn makes them abysmal.

I had 4 at one point on me (only hunter there) and after i killed two another hunter showed up. I've get to get more than one in the room with me since, and I dont kill them particularly fast.
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 07:58 PM CST
>>Just to repeat, this really should be fixed.

It should be fixed across all critters.



Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
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Re: Warklin 02/03/2013 10:50 PM CST
>>Last post I'll make regarding this, but to conclude my request for this to be looked at, there are now 4(maybe more, just in hunt range for me as a survival tertiary) people in warklin, and has been for ten plus minutes, due to this, I have not seen a single warklin, the cap literally prevents there from ever being enough critters here for this many players.

You must have gotten unlucky with the four hunters who were in at that time. There's sometimes someone mining who will take swarm, but the majority of the people there are there for the warklins and not the minerals. I'm often in there back-training ten different weapons and sometimes I can't keep pace with their arrivals even though I am slaughtering constantly.
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Re: Warklin 02/04/2013 12:45 AM CST
>> To be fair, this was more of a stupid excuse repeated by players.

Repeated by players... because the GMs said it.


>> The GMs actually did change several hunting grounds

HLC hunting grounds? 1% of the playerbase? 1-2 creature areas? in 5-8 years of complaining? Not good enough.

You can literally read the creature complaints folder and go back in time and see the same complaints over and over again.
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Re: Warklin 02/04/2013 12:59 AM CST
>>HLC hunting grounds? 1% of the playerbase? 1-2 creature areas? in 5-8 years of complaining? Not good enough.

Not good enough, I totally agree. But it affected MUCH more than 1% of the player base.

Anyways, main point is that the GMs DO know that "wait for 3.0" was never a valid excuse, because they wouldn't have taken the time to change a bunch of hunting grounds if they thought 3.0 would fix it

Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
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Re: Warklin 02/04/2013 01:39 AM CST
>> Anyways, main point is that the GMs DO know that "wait for 3.0" was never a valid excuse, because they wouldn't have taken the time to change a bunch of hunting grounds if they thought 3.0 would fix it

Well, I'd say this was more on the lines of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease." Most people move past the specific troubled hunting areas and don't post about it again. With the areas they did change, it was 300+ ranks worth, so people just kept posting and posting and posting. I wouldn't use this as an indication that they were not "waiting for 3.0."

I'm more inclined to believe that they just don't know there's a problem. Just look at Kodius's post about not knowing that bonding thrown weapons was a huge reason to bond. We just assume that GMS know everything because we posted about it, or posted about it in some direct manner, when maybe they don't actually know. (Not to mention with so many staff changes it could have been on a list at some point.)
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Re: Warklin 02/04/2013 02:14 AM CST
Interesting tangent but..

Can a GM please comment on this? Stinks to find something I WANT to hunt but cant due to terrible spawns.
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Re: Warklin 02/04/2013 03:02 AM CST
>>Can a GM please comment on this? Stinks to find something I WANT to hunt but cant due to terrible spawns.

Warklins are not unhuntable? I'm not sure why you keep saying this. I hunt there all the time.
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Re: Warklin 02/04/2013 10:31 AM CST
>>I WANT to hunt but cant due to terrible spawns.

Come out to the islands, you'll have the Warklin area almost completely to yourself.



Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
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