Heyo!

These changes should have zero impact on loot drops. With that said, a lot of the critters with custom loot (especially the older ones) used some pretty scary workarounds to override the normal loot and create custom. It's possible that dobeks fall into this category, and in such a way that the special attack fixes messed up the loot...but it's extremely unlikely. Unless someone took the concept of working around normal limitations to new heights. I'll check later tonight or sometime tomorrow.

- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

Heyo!

On the viper issue...

Their attack skill with their spit is pulled directly from their normal attack skill -- in other words, their skill in spitting is exactly the same as their skill in biting. As many people have already said, the real problem is that DR is currently set up with a two-defense model that hinges heavily on Evasion as the first line of defense. If you do not have two active defenses against an attack, you will be at a huge disadvantage. If you drop your evasion for any reason, you are also indirectly dropping all other defenses. In the scenario described, we are looking at a double whammy -- only one line of defense (parry doesn't work against missiles), and Evasion reduced. The spit is probably going to hit unless the effective evasion is well beyond what is needed. Especially if there is significant hindrance and/or encumbrance involved as well.


- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

> Scavenger trolls are now FANTASTIC weapon thieves. They're edging towards the lower end of my range and nailing me with it consistently.


Just checked on these guys. It looks like they did get a bit of an upgrade in their special attack, although in this case it is because the old one was using information from a buggy source. Their current skill is what was always intended...but more than they were actually getting. I will probably downtweak these guys closer to their old buggy setting in the next batch -- weapon snatching is kinda serious stuff.

- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

Sorry, you're right it is in the news. I missed it because an older update about spell casting critters pushed it up.

<<Wir Alyden>> Aleyden finally got turned into undead?!? Delicious...

Are these found anywhere? Never heard of them..

Rehlyn

You gesture at a gargantuan korograth.
A sheet of slippery rich amber ale-hued ice forms beneath a gargantuan korograth!
The gargantuan korograth refuses to fall.

And just to clarify, I have no sympathy for anyone who neglects shield and wanders in there. I'm saying this as an armor tertiary whose shield is one of his highest skills.

I believe that Wir Alyden can be found on Aesry, in the same caverns as the Unyns- But in a rather hard-to-reach area thereof. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. :)


Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy

A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy

You're right. But I could swear that there is an area with the Alydens too.


Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy

A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy

>They used to drop rubies on successful skin but that isn't the case after change.

I hope you realize that was a bug.

---

>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.

Dart, you said that it was possible to avoid the Oshu steam attack, but you would have to be superhuman to do so, as there is only about a 1 sec delay between the steam being emitted and the first damage pulse. I don't think it is physically possible to retreat twice and get out before it pulses.

In fact I had another character stand in the room invis, with the direction already typed in, but even then I wasn't quick enough. Also the steam follows you from room to room, so if you get hit, you can't simply run away to avoid the second pulse, it will follow you:

A nipoh oshu exhales a cloud of roiling steam!
I>sw
Scalding steam swirls over you scalding you horribly!
I>
It's pitch dark and you can't see a thing! different room
I>
Scalding steam swirls over you scalding you painfully!
A roiling steam cloud dissipates away.

Is this supposed to happen?

---

A giant snow hawk suddenly enters a steep dive headed towards you!

The hawk snags you in its talons and quickly begins climbing back up. Struggling, flailing and kicking you manage to weaken the grasp enough that the hawk drops you back to the branches below.
You fall thrust upon your back! Ouch!

Attack : 100%
Evade : 100%
Parry : 1%
Block : 85%

over 600 each of evasion and shield
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently insignificantly hindered and your stealth is minimally hindered.

~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning

> Is this supposed to happen?
>>Well, other than the obvious typo, yes.

In my opinion their special attack is still out of line with how high they teach, they weren't moving my evasion much at all. I hate to post such vague observations, but I can't do anything more concrete since they broke my legs with those attacks within 5 minutes.

~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning

>The Snow Hawk special attack skill is exactly the same as their weakest normal attack. Your defense skills are not so far above their attack skill range that they aren't going to land a hit now and then.

Yes, but the consequence of a special attack succeeding is completely different from a normal attack. If Hanryu fails to completely dodge and shield block/parry an attack, his armor will likely soak up the majority of the small damage that gets through. I'm guessing he probably uses MAF to soak up additional damage as well. So the result is that he's receiving a lot of brushing/grazing/harmless strikes rather than losing limbs.

A separate issue of special attacks is that no one knows exactly what they contest, which makes it harder to defend against them. Can you parry a snow hawk dive? Does armor help?

I think the bottom line is, it simply isn't good enough to say the numerical power rating of special attack versus a normal attack means the special attack is in-line. This determination can only be made by doing actual testing as well as considering player feedback. I know some players will whine and complain about any convenience, but I hold Hanryu's game mechanics feedback in the highest regard because he has a deep understanding of game mechanics and is a long term player.

I think special attacks make hunting a lot more interesting rather than vanilla hunting ladders like caracals to celpeze (caracals 2.0), etc. But I think it's pretty clear that there was very limited testing involved in the release of so many creature special attacks simultaneously.

---

>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.

On the Oshu issue -- the vitality damage will always be there, but the body wounds can be drastically or completely reduced. Standing in a cloud of steam is going to cook you one way or another.

- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

> What makes critter special attacks so annoying is that they are so much more punishing than regular attacks and aren't less accurate.


In a vast majority of cases (including the one under discussion), they are less accurate (or at the very least tied with their least accurate normal attack) unless they are purely a debuff-type attack. This last round of fixes addressed the handful that were more accurate damage dealers.


Not saying that I disagree with the argument that some special attacks are so annoying, but in almost all cases where special attacks use the core special attack utility, the special attack is the least accurate of all their attacks. Just saying.


- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

<<They're called Maelshyvean hierophants nowadays. - GM Grejuva>>

Replying to an old thread here, but Grejuva you might be the one to ask.

The consensus out here is that heiros don't have their old smoking dart spell they used back during the Verese event. I remember it having kind of a slick looking special effect. Any chance they could get that spell back, just for old times sake?

For that matter, any chance they could get their old name, Wir Alyden, back? I think it sounds much better.

gamgweth for "evil holy man"

My guess is their new lore with maelshyvae has probably replaced their old lore though, so probably this is all wishful thinking.

Kaxis

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"First rule of slaying: don't die!" -- Buffy

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of it, that was way back in 2001 or so.

I tried looking online, but Smelly Cat doesn't go back that far. I checked DRapostle since I figured they'd been in on any undead invasion back then, but there weren't many logs of combats to be found. I did find a copy of Rock's old resignation letter that Eyoni posted back then though. That brought back memories. Would be nice to have both of them here again.

The only other slim idea I can suggest is Dartenian's post discussing special attack bug fixes. Post #75 in GM announcements here in the critter folders:

http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Creatures%20of%20Elanthia/Game%20Master%20and%20Official%20Announcements/view/75

In that post, it's interesting he refers to them as wir alyden instead of hierophants, even though the name wir alyden hadn't been used or heard in many years. Is it possible he was looking at some information somewhere that might be a little more deeply buried than current heiro code? A long shot I admit but all I can come up with.

Other than that, unless the creating GM is still available and saved a backup copy of the file, or some player by the wildest stroke of luck kept a copy of some long-forgotten combat a decade ago, then I guess we toss in the towel.

Kaxis

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"First rule of slaying: don't die!" -- Buffy