> Just say no to special attacks that have no skill check or at best an extremely skewed one.


A few comments:


(1) The Oshu loot was set with the fact that they have a nasty special attack in mind. This is why they have been such a nice cash cow since the special attack broke.

(2) There are ways to substantially reduce the effects of the steam attack. Not the least of which is just moving out of the room until it fades away.

(3) It is a fairly rare attack and has a timer to prevent spamming. If you aggressively fight, you won't face steam attacks very often. Oshu are -not- a "dancing" critter. They -are- a critter specifically designed with elemental users in mind.



- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

>Oshu are -not- a "dancing" critter.

They are/were hands down the best critters for training defenses in the whole realms IMO.

I would dance with them for as long as I could stand to and then kill the ones I had before leaving. Not exactly a cash cow but I can see how they could become so. If you are killing them that quickly though then they are still going to become cash cows so making folks kill them quicker is only making that problem worse.

I won't stop hunting them til they stop teaching me shield, which will be a while. I suppose now instead of just standing there and making a gold or two an hour, I will start piling up the plats.

Also, why only elemental users? Aesry is such a pain to get to that few enough folks visit as it is, without shutting out another chunk of potential hunters. The safe spot by oshu has been a popular social spot for some time now.

<<On the other hand, there is at least one way available to everyone to reduce the heat damage to the body.

Bone/Cloth armor?

Nikpack

The gods are jerks. No, really.-Armifer

I don't think we ever take the training wheels off as players or gamemasters.-Inauri

Cloth armor (at least the ones I've appraised is not that awesome against heat, they rather rock against cold).

It'd really like to see some type of wool armor (supposedly naturally fire resistant [note: not fire proof]).

Nice to hear places were made for specific guilds and or skillset. Going to keep that in mind while I continue to move about hunting grounds.

_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

So you're telling me that if I run through a fire, the cloth armor stitched with dried twigs that's been soaked thoroughly in copious amounts of naphtha that I'm wearing won't protect me? :(


- Phalanx Korsik Rippentropp, Vindicator of M'riss

---

Baum says to Lillietta, "Problem is that Korsik is a very big boy."
Lillietta says, "He is mentally unstable."

>>What armor is good against heat? I can't imagine Chain or plate doing very well. Leather? Bone?


You feel certain that a skull mask bearing a pair of sharpened horns appears to impose fair maneuvering hindrance and insignificant stealth hindrance, offering:
fair protection and fair damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high protection and moderate damage absorption for slice attacks.
low protection and low damage absorption for impact attacks.
high protection and good damage absorption for fire attacks.
low protection and low damage absorption for cold attacks.
high protection and good damage absorption for electrical attacks.


Eh I guess? That's a bone mask right there.

- Phalanx Korsik Rippentropp, Vindicator of M'riss

---

Baum says to Lillietta, "Problem is that Korsik is a very big boy."
Lillietta says, "He is mentally unstable."

>>What armor is good against heat? I can't imagine Chain or plate doing very well. Leather? Bone?

Chain armor is surprisingly good against it.

You feel certain that some flat black greaves appear to impose insignificant (1/8) maneuvering hindrance and light (2/8) stealth hindrance, offering:
good (5/11) protection and good (5/11) damage absorption for puncture attacks.
moderate (4/11) protection and good (5/11) damage absorption for slice attacks.
good (5/11) protection and good (5/11) damage absorption for impact attacks.
moderate (4/11) protection and moderate (4/11) damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate (4/11) protection and moderate (4/11) damage absorption for cold attacks.
low (2/11) protection and moderate (4/11) damage absorption for electrical attacks.

But yes, bone is probably the best. Leather is an odd case. Boiled leather, like cuirbouilli, should provide pretty good protection against fire, but the templates don't support the properties of leather vis-a-vis how it handles being set on fire as well as they could.

> (3) It is a fairly rare attack and has a timer to prevent spamming. If you aggressively fight, you won't face steam attacks very often. Oshu are -not- a "dancing" critter. They -are- a critter specifically designed with elemental users in mind. [GM Dartenian]

So when you say fairly rare...are you meaning once a minute? Or once every 5-10 mins? I just had 2 oshus hit me with steam approximately 5 times in 1 minute. I didn't ignore stamina - I have 35. It had me down to very beat up - fortunately, I can cast VH. Just checking to see if that's the appropriate "timer" on them.

- teh Phantom Raudhan

> Were you in the same room, or moving around? Once a steam cloud is generated, they should not be able to create another in that same room for at least a full minute. If they are creating more than one per 1 minute period in a given room, something is definitely still broken.

I was in the same room. Is that each oshu can only create one steam cloud in one room for the minute? So if I have three oshus, there can be three steam clouds? If it's only one steam cloud per room per minute, then they are definitely still broken.

I'm cleaning up a log, but I'll post it once the extraneous stuff if gone. Or you can find my in oshus right now under a different character name. I think I'm the only one in here.

what a wonderful way to kill yet another great creature.

oh! wait! Lemme go backtrain some 150ish ranks in a REALLY shoddy armor set, just so I can hunt semi effectively in a good training area...

or should I try and eke out a few ranks here and there in my primary armor, and forget I ever went to oshu?


When are we going to have a decent critter, or a really good training critter, that DOESN'T get nerfed/tweaked/have some retarded special ability making them unhuntable to the general public?


"Never steal from someone carrying more weapons than you have lessons in evasion."

No Ranger Stands Alone

I'd be willing to bet they aren't unhuntable. Tougher to hunt, sure, but not unhuntable. There are a ton of other critters in that range if you don't like the changes.

> I'd be willing to bet they aren't unhuntable.


They are not even remotely close to unhuntable. They are not particular friendly to dancing unless you have high stamina and/or decent armor, but they are certainly huntable assuming you are in the right general range to be there in the first place.


- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

>>Speaking of celpeze, don't they have a bugged special attack? Pretty sure they're supposed to poison people.

How dare you, sir.


- Executioner Korsik Rippentropp, Sociopath of M'riss

---

Baum says to Lillietta, "Problem is that Korsik is a very big boy."
Lillietta says, "He is mentally unstable."

>I used to make the LC Augmented Hauberk at 385 stones. I don't think any other forger has ever sold it at that weight. Since then I've been experimenting and gotten a mix down to 380 stones. I'm still tweaking, but 380 stones is the current standard. No need to make or buy anything heavier.

Uh, appraisals are a range.

---

>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.

You said there was no reason to go over a certain weight. That's completely false. The rest of your post was fine.

---

>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.

I do understand what you're saying. Yes, the lighter we make a piece of armor the more likely it will lose some of its advanced qualities. Its numbers will keep moving down the damage scale. You could make something so light it becomes worthless junk.

I'm sure you know this, but others might not. If you take a 240 stone LC Chain Hauberk, which is the popular one today at least in Prime, and a 399 stone LC Chain Hauberk, and compare them to a wide range of other armors, you will absolutely see differences. No more than a +1 over 159 stones, but you are correct about that. The 240 is less hindering but also has less protection and absorption in various stats. As you say, I don't think everyone is aware of this. Most people probably think they're getting a full-power LC Chain Hauberk at 240 stones.

<<You said there was no reason to go over a certain weight. That's completely false.>>

Not necessarily. It all depends upon how large the forging weight intervals are and where they begin and end. If the 10 point scale we always see is accurate, then we know it's not a drop of 1 damage point per 1 stone lost of armor weight. Otherwise the 240 LC Chain Hauberk would have such huge negative damage numbers that it might amplify incoming damage rather than decrease it.

Rather it looks more like it takes a certain amount of weight in stones removed from forged armor before you get 1 point of actual damage reduction loss. How many stones isn't something I've investigated directly. But from my past appraisal and comparison work it looks like with an armor item the size of an LC Chain Hauberk it might take a weight reduction of around 20-25 stones, and maybe more, to trigger a loss of 1 defensive point somewhere on the hidden damage scale. That 20-25 isn't a magic number here but it'll for example purposes.

The question is really when the weight intervals begin and end. If they end at the maximum weight, then the loss of a single stone from 399 to 398 would trigger the 1 point loss on the damage scale. Then in another 20-25 stones would be another point loss and so on. If instead it begins at maximum, then the full amount 20-25 stones would have to be removed before the first 1 point loss is triggered. In this case my 380 LC Augmented Hauberk could easily be identical to the full version, since it hasn't yet been made light enough to trigger a damage reduction.

This example is highly generalized. I think the actual picture is much more complex than this because not every stat in the 240 drops compared to the 399. Others might be dropping but maybe not as much as others and so don't show up in the comparisons. And not all stats might be affected equally by weight. It's something that would take a lot of effort to sort out, and the systems are to be rewritten soon anyway from what I understand. So doing it now would be pointless. Doing it at all might drive someone insane.

<<If you care about actual protection, however, the game is checking a number>>

This is true.

<< and more is better.>>

This is true only if you add enough stones to surpass the next forging weight threshold and trigger a point gain of damage resistance. If you never reach that threshold then the gained stones are only making the armor heavier and maybe more hindering. Reverse logic with losing stones from an armor piece.

<<your original post touched a nerve because I hate how forgers in prime focus only on the word appraisal>>

I agree completely. But I never said I focus only on the word appraisal. By itself, appraisal is very misleading.

Kaxis

http://www.tinyurl.com/kaxisforgedarmor

---

A weeping willow reads:

"Under the branches of this holy tree.
I offered my love unto thee.
I held you in my arms so tight.
Then, with a simple kiss our hearts took flight.
Blessed by the gods were we.
All with a simple kiss under this sacred tree."

A vile plague wraith glides into view, carefully searching for intruders.

>If the 10 point scale we always see is accurate, then we know it's not a drop of 1 damage point per 1 stone lost of armor weight.

It isn't accurate, which was the entire point of my post.

---

>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.

yes,celpeze use to have a nasty poison attack,you got stung by thier tail or something and it could kill you fairly quickly.