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<<What you have to realize too is that both of you there caused more to spawn as well try having your friend wait outside the area completely and go in there by yourself and see if its better.>>
I understand that. However, again, 8 genned within seconds in the room. Not spread about, but all in the same room. If you dived that out, and stick me in alone, that is still 4 genning on top of a character. Still excessive. I don't object to an increased gen rate, especially in areas that really needed it for characters much higher level than I, but what specifically I was commenting on was Dartenian's comment about critters genning in the room. That is what I think is a bit much.
I'd rather see 8, or 4 if you will, gen around an area, rather than just - bam here you go right on your head, heh.
That too me will make it pretty difficult to move up in critter until you've absolutely milked all the xp from a lower level mob. Make sense?
- Beau player of Froent, Dwarven Paladin
FLANEUR
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates
11/22/2008 11:14 AM CST
Heyo!
There are two fire sprite areas. One is set to a modest spawn (but has another nasties in there as well), the other to a fairly high spawn (but it only fire sprites). I checked the settings, and yes, it's very possible that you'll get hit pretty hard in the second if you have a friend along in the same room. Try it with your friend a room or two away, or try the other sprites
However, in any case the gen rate is what it always was, and none of the tweaks would have increased it. While there is a skewed chance to spawn in the room with a player, that skewing is very small. Having two players in the same room definitely made things a lot worse.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
There are two fire sprite areas. One is set to a modest spawn (but has another nasties in there as well), the other to a fairly high spawn (but it only fire sprites). I checked the settings, and yes, it's very possible that you'll get hit pretty hard in the second if you have a friend along in the same room. Try it with your friend a room or two away, or try the other sprites
However, in any case the gen rate is what it always was, and none of the tweaks would have increased it. While there is a skewed chance to spawn in the room with a player, that skewing is very small. Having two players in the same room definitely made things a lot worse.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
FLANEUR
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates
11/22/2008 02:40 PM CST
<<While there is a skewed chance to spawn in the room with a player, that skewing is very small.>>
Then perhaps it was just a fluke::shrug:: It just seemed excessive that 8 dropped in on us at at the one time. Regardless, because of the skewed chance to spawn all in one room, it's not likely that I'll be able to hunt there, heh. No worries, it's entirely possible I wasn't able to move up that far in critters anyway.
Oh, and btw, it was in the area with just sprites. Though for arguments sake we did try the Crook area with the fire cats and again within a moment or three we were swamped with critters. We also, to the best of my knowledge, were the only 2 people in either areas.
Thank you though Dartenian for all your hard work on Dragonrealms. The level of gm dedication in this game is why after a 6 year absence is one of the reasons I decided to come back.
- Beau player of Froent, Dwarven Paladin
Then perhaps it was just a fluke::shrug:: It just seemed excessive that 8 dropped in on us at at the one time. Regardless, because of the skewed chance to spawn all in one room, it's not likely that I'll be able to hunt there, heh. No worries, it's entirely possible I wasn't able to move up that far in critters anyway.
Oh, and btw, it was in the area with just sprites. Though for arguments sake we did try the Crook area with the fire cats and again within a moment or three we were swamped with critters. We also, to the best of my knowledge, were the only 2 people in either areas.
Thank you though Dartenian for all your hard work on Dragonrealms. The level of gm dedication in this game is why after a 6 year absence is one of the reasons I decided to come back.
- Beau player of Froent, Dwarven Paladin
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates
11/22/2008 03:21 PM CST
> Regardless, because of the skewed chance to spawn all in one room, it's not likely that I'll be able to hunt there, heh.
I'll make this simple. Roughly one out of every ten critters will be forced to spawn in an occupied room. The rest are completely random. That may not seem like much, but it does make a tangible difference.
Since it's been a couple of days now and nobody has complained about it, I'll announce the other tweak I did, which should shed some light on why I said you friend being with you was probably making things worse.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
I'll make this simple. Roughly one out of every ten critters will be forced to spawn in an occupied room. The rest are completely random. That may not seem like much, but it does make a tangible difference.
Since it's been a couple of days now and nobody has complained about it, I'll announce the other tweak I did, which should shed some light on why I said you friend being with you was probably making things worse.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
BARIEN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates
11/22/2008 09:29 PM CST
While discussing gen rate, maybe it be possible to up pec island gen rate 1/2 or 1 critter per hunter. It always been low when no one else around. Even with changes it slow when no other people there.
Brabs
Brabs
C0UGAR
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/22/2008 11:41 PM CST
It seems that making most of the rooms 3 per hunter would make it difficult for us to train MO when we need 4 critters most of the time to learn it.
Falker
Falker
JULIAN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/23/2008 07:19 AM CST
>>It seems that making most of the rooms 3 per hunter would make it difficult for us to train MO when we need 4 critters most of the time to learn it.<<
This.
Though if this tweak went in at the same time the other did, I'm not really noticing more difficulty training MO than usual.
Which is to say it's still a PITA because learning from four creatures is slowing down and the engagement cap is four.
- Mazrian
The Flying Company
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d194/huldahspal/flyingcompany.png
This.
Though if this tweak went in at the same time the other did, I'm not really noticing more difficulty training MO than usual.
Which is to say it's still a PITA because learning from four creatures is slowing down and the engagement cap is four.
- Mazrian
The Flying Company
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d194/huldahspal/flyingcompany.png
TYCH
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/23/2008 08:49 AM CST
<<It seems that making most of the rooms 3 per hunter would make it difficult for us to train MO when we need 4 critters most of the time to learn it.
I agree. sky Giants are my level or slightly above my level and three sky giants really don't teach me multi. I need four to make it trainable.
Drevid
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html
Cylons... why debugging matters.
I agree. sky Giants are my level or slightly above my level and three sky giants really don't teach me multi. I need four to make it trainable.
Drevid
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html
Cylons... why debugging matters.
YUOREE
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/23/2008 12:45 PM CST
4 apes does me good. I still get 4 though, from an extra wandering I guess.
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/23/2008 12:47 PM CST
> Though if this tweak went in at the same time the other did, I'm not really noticing more difficulty training MO than usual.
It went in later the same day, and this is exactly why I kept quiet on it for a couple of days. I knew folks would complain about the MO aspect, but I wanted to see the impact before they knew there was this limit in place. Up until I posted the change, every post on the topic was either "can't see any real difference" or "this is definitely better". As a result, I'm not too worried about the impact on MO. For most critters, three should be fine at or near level. The notable exception would be critters that make regular use of spells, special attacks, or ranged weapons, but with our current combat system these are always going to be poor choices for MO training.
More to the point, the new minimum maintained population and skewed odds to spawn in a room with the player should result in better MO training overall in most areas. Keep in mind the per player cap is only for spawn location. Nothing prevents critters from wandering in on their own, which was the predominant means of getting multiple critters in one room prior to these changes. Also keep in mind I didn't say it capped at 3. I said it capped at whatever the per player spawn is for the area, defaulting to 3 if that isn't set. What this means is that if the area is set to spawn 5 critters per player, up to 5 per player can spawn in a given room.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
It went in later the same day, and this is exactly why I kept quiet on it for a couple of days. I knew folks would complain about the MO aspect, but I wanted to see the impact before they knew there was this limit in place. Up until I posted the change, every post on the topic was either "can't see any real difference" or "this is definitely better". As a result, I'm not too worried about the impact on MO. For most critters, three should be fine at or near level. The notable exception would be critters that make regular use of spells, special attacks, or ranged weapons, but with our current combat system these are always going to be poor choices for MO training.
More to the point, the new minimum maintained population and skewed odds to spawn in a room with the player should result in better MO training overall in most areas. Keep in mind the per player cap is only for spawn location. Nothing prevents critters from wandering in on their own, which was the predominant means of getting multiple critters in one room prior to these changes. Also keep in mind I didn't say it capped at 3. I said it capped at whatever the per player spawn is for the area, defaulting to 3 if that isn't set. What this means is that if the area is set to spawn 5 critters per player, up to 5 per player can spawn in a given room.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
ALDEN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/24/2008 11:48 AM CST
I would say that A'danf has become less desirable to hunt in with the change. I didn't see much difference in getting A'danf to spawn near me- matter of fact that seems to have gone down. But I could no longer get 4 warriers in one room at all last night. I only managed 3 once. Before I could be fairly certain of finding one A'danf and having others join the fun. Last night I danced with 1 warrier until it was ready to retreat, and only when I killed it, did the next one spawn. I could occasionally get 2 warriers and a mage, or 2 mages and a warrier, but mages are lousy for learning MO. I need at least 3 warriers to learn MO at more than a crawl.
Oh- and the time I finally got 3 warriers in one room, one of them wandered off before I locked MO. I never locked MO hunting in A'danf last night, which I think is a first for the months and months I have hunted them.
I will go see what is going on in Gryphons, but there is the rub. I would prefer for A'danf to remain an option, but if I can't learn MO reasonably well there, I will be better off in Gryphons, even though I give up a fair amount of my offensive and defensive magic.
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
Oh- and the time I finally got 3 warriers in one room, one of them wandered off before I locked MO. I never locked MO hunting in A'danf last night, which I think is a first for the months and months I have hunted them.
I will go see what is going on in Gryphons, but there is the rub. I would prefer for A'danf to remain an option, but if I can't learn MO reasonably well there, I will be better off in Gryphons, even though I give up a fair amount of my offensive and defensive magic.
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
ALVESN99
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/24/2008 03:10 PM CST
ahhh... thanks for the feedback on adanf...
thats a bit disappointing, was looking forward to hunting them.
Well... gryphons are still super fantastic. You cant learn TM with them?
thats a bit disappointing, was looking forward to hunting them.
Well... gryphons are still super fantastic. You cant learn TM with them?
ALDEN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/25/2008 12:18 AM CST
"You cant learn TM with them?"
When the gryphons are swarming, I learn TM from them better than from A'danf. I just can kill Adanf with Harm Evil faster than I can kill Gryphons with Horn...though I can kill them probably faster with AE.
Nothing wrong with Gryphons, just I like having the option of A'danf, and A'danf play to a clerics strengths far more than Gryphons.
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
When the gryphons are swarming, I learn TM from them better than from A'danf. I just can kill Adanf with Harm Evil faster than I can kill Gryphons with Horn...though I can kill them probably faster with AE.
Nothing wrong with Gryphons, just I like having the option of A'danf, and A'danf play to a clerics strengths far more than Gryphons.
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
JHIME
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/25/2008 03:49 AM CST
>>We'll take a look at MO first. I'd rather not ever be in a position where someone must have 4 critters on them.
While I'm quite aware we aren't a priority I must have 4 creatures to learn MO. It's even super slow then so any looking at MO overall would be greaaaaaaaat.
I haven't noticed a lot of change as far as finding creatures out in the desert, but my 'section' is fairly small. I stopped learning MO completely, but that has to do with a player quiting and not GM changes.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n142/Sirzason/wmsheet2.jpg
a black panther comes flying into view! it hits the ground, bouncing once before sliding to a stop.
A black panther is stunned!
While I'm quite aware we aren't a priority I must have 4 creatures to learn MO. It's even super slow then so any looking at MO overall would be greaaaaaaaat.
I haven't noticed a lot of change as far as finding creatures out in the desert, but my 'section' is fairly small. I stopped learning MO completely, but that has to do with a player quiting and not GM changes.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n142/Sirzason/wmsheet2.jpg
a black panther comes flying into view! it hits the ground, bouncing once before sliding to a stop.
A black panther is stunned!
DR-OOLAN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/25/2008 05:58 AM CST
>>While I'm quite aware we aren't a priority I must have 4 creatures to learn MO. It's even super slow then so any looking at MO overall would be greaaaaaaaat.
Dear lord. Dart do we really have to help HIM out? ;)
GM Oolan Jeel
Utinam barbari spatium proprium tuum invadant!
Dear lord. Dart do we really have to help HIM out? ;)
GM Oolan Jeel
Utinam barbari spatium proprium tuum invadant!
SUGARSNOUT
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/25/2008 07:49 AM CST
>Dear lord. Dart do we really have to help HIM out? ;)
Jhime doesn't count.
I personally say ban him from the boards.
____________
Satfiki wipes a bit of Rmel's spittle from her arm.
Jhime doesn't count.
I personally say ban him from the boards.
____________
Satfiki wipes a bit of Rmel's spittle from her arm.
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/25/2008 11:12 AM CST
> Dear lord. Dart do we really have to help HIM out? ;)f
If we actually fix MO, we can always add an IF JHIME THEN reroute to old MO if we need to. Never fear!
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
If we actually fix MO, we can always add an IF JHIME THEN reroute to old MO if we need to. Never fear!
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
NIKPACK
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/25/2008 04:07 PM CST
I sense a grand GM conspiracy here. I could be completely misreading the situation though.
Nikpack
Climbing List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Climbing_skill
Swimming List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Swimming_skill
And while I am evil, I try to avoid being just plain mean.
-Z
Nikpack
Climbing List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Climbing_skill
Swimming List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Swimming_skill
And while I am evil, I try to avoid being just plain mean.
-Z
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/25/2008 04:22 PM CST
> I sense a grand GM conspiracy here. I could be completely misreading the situation though.
We can neither confirm nor deny any conspiracies, grand or otherwise.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
We can neither confirm nor deny any conspiracies, grand or otherwise.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
ENOTS
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/25/2008 05:01 PM CST
::the voice of Royce says, "Well done, my young padawan!"::
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
GODBANE
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/25/2008 06:57 PM CST
S'lai Scouts are spawning like crazy now. Must have been 2-3 in every room we walked into. A friend and I went looking for S'lai Screamers of which we found zero for the hour we spent looking.
MIZOSHIRI1
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/29/2008 04:00 AM CST
I too need four creatures to learn any MO, so you could help me out and I wouldn't hold it against anyone for inadvertently helping Jhime.
It would be nice if MO scaled for four creatures and the defense learning cap of the creature. So if a creature capped out teaching you parry/evasion/shield at 760, it would cap out teaching you MO there as well.
I think it's been asked before, but is there any consideration taken for the spawn of ranged/ranged magic using creatures? Some of these are in areas you need to pass on the way to other areas. The upped spawn rates make passing through these areas much more dangerous than before.
Specifically, Lun'shele hunters in/near the bristle-back area. Their sling attacks make it tough on characters passing through on their way to island peccaries.
Thanks,
-Gavyn
It would be nice if MO scaled for four creatures and the defense learning cap of the creature. So if a creature capped out teaching you parry/evasion/shield at 760, it would cap out teaching you MO there as well.
I think it's been asked before, but is there any consideration taken for the spawn of ranged/ranged magic using creatures? Some of these are in areas you need to pass on the way to other areas. The upped spawn rates make passing through these areas much more dangerous than before.
Specifically, Lun'shele hunters in/near the bristle-back area. Their sling attacks make it tough on characters passing through on their way to island peccaries.
Thanks,
-Gavyn
JHIME
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
11/29/2008 04:41 AM CST
>>I think it's been asked before, but is there any consideration taken for the spawn of ranged/ranged magic using creatures? Some of these are in areas you need to pass on the way to other areas. The upped spawn rates make passing through these areas much more dangerous than before.
This is particularly bad with Hierophants. They guard the way to the altar used in the Cleric's Rezz quest and spawn on top of the poor lvl 30 clerics four at a time. Then on top of that in order to move around in the area you have to stand in the open for 30 seconds to activate various rune circles.
None of my friends had ever mentioned the cleric quest to me before, but I've been asked to go down there 4 times already since the gen rate change. I think it's safe to say the rezz quest jumped up a notch in difficulty.
BEWARE ALL YE CLERICS
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n142/Sirzason/wmsheet2.jpg
a black panther comes flying into view! it hits the ground, bouncing once before sliding to a stop.
A black panther is stunned!
This is particularly bad with Hierophants. They guard the way to the altar used in the Cleric's Rezz quest and spawn on top of the poor lvl 30 clerics four at a time. Then on top of that in order to move around in the area you have to stand in the open for 30 seconds to activate various rune circles.
None of my friends had ever mentioned the cleric quest to me before, but I've been asked to go down there 4 times already since the gen rate change. I think it's safe to say the rezz quest jumped up a notch in difficulty.
BEWARE ALL YE CLERICS
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n142/Sirzason/wmsheet2.jpg
a black panther comes flying into view! it hits the ground, bouncing once before sliding to a stop.
A black panther is stunned!
THEBANDOFBROTHERS
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
12/01/2008 10:38 AM CST
I'm fairly certain that the gen update isn't working that great in the scout/young ogre training area NW of Haven. When I first got there, I ran through the entire area and didn't see an ogre. Went through again and found one, and after that it's been slow going. In one case though, I was in the southern rooms without seeing an ogre for 4-5 min and decided to go to the north room. There were three young ogres standing there... Any chance on maybe increasing the min spawn in that area to 4 ogres if there is only one hunter?
On another note, after over an hour in the area I've only seen young ogres. Not a scout to be seen.
On another note, after over an hour in the area I've only seen young ogres. Not a scout to be seen.
THEBANDOFBROTHERS
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
12/01/2008 12:37 PM CST
UPDATE:
Been in here over three hours so far and have yet to see a scout ogre. Spawn is still slow as I've been the only person in here all day.
Been in here over three hours so far and have yet to see a scout ogre. Spawn is still slow as I've been the only person in here all day.
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
12/01/2008 12:49 PM CST
Heyo!
I checked on the ogre area outside Riverhaven. The young ogres seem to be spawning correctly. The scout ogres are set to be a rare spawn, and as such aren't covered by the updates. As things stand now, they will not normally spawn with only one player in the area. I'll check with the area owner to see if this is intentional or not, but that would be why you aren't finding any at the moment.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
I checked on the ogre area outside Riverhaven. The young ogres seem to be spawning correctly. The scout ogres are set to be a rare spawn, and as such aren't covered by the updates. As things stand now, they will not normally spawn with only one player in the area. I'll check with the area owner to see if this is intentional or not, but that would be why you aren't finding any at the moment.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
LEMAGRAG
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
12/02/2008 07:25 AM CST
>>I checked on the ogre area outside Riverhaven. The young ogres seem to be spawning correctly. The scout ogres are set to be a rare spawn, and as such aren't covered by the updates. As things stand now, they will not normally spawn with only one player in the area. I'll check with the area owner to see if this is intentional or not, but that would be why you aren't finding any at the moment.
As I sometimes backtrain weapons there, I can confirm that intentional or not, you could definitely get scouts if you were the only hunter in there before the change. I would get them about 1 for every 4-6 young ogres I killed.
~player of Gulphphunger
As I sometimes backtrain weapons there, I can confirm that intentional or not, you could definitely get scouts if you were the only hunter in there before the change. I would get them about 1 for every 4-6 young ogres I killed.
~player of Gulphphunger
JHIME
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
12/02/2008 08:13 AM CST
Do you guys go down the path? I sort of remember that being where they all spawned.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n142/Sirzason/wmsheet2.jpg
a black panther comes flying into view! it hits the ground, bouncing once before sliding to a stop.
A black panther is stunned!
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n142/Sirzason/wmsheet2.jpg
a black panther comes flying into view! it hits the ground, bouncing once before sliding to a stop.
A black panther is stunned!
LEMAGRAG
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
12/02/2008 10:11 AM CST
>>Do you guys go down the path? I sort of remember that being where they all spawned.
Yeah, I was hunting in the ogre-exclusive area (formerly arbelogs).
~player of Gulphphunger
Yeah, I was hunting in the ogre-exclusive area (formerly arbelogs).
~player of Gulphphunger
OLSONM6
Re: Critter Gen Rate Updates part 2
12/02/2008 11:24 AM CST
Are Arbelogs no more? What happened to them?
