I'm having a hard time figuring out what to tackle next. I've hard capped copperhead vipers for defenses, but can still milk them another 10-20 ranks for weapons. But I'd like to move up to something at least nominally more exciting. Paladin, level 15, all defenses in the 70s.

Prefer skinnable but don't really care either way.

Blood wolves are an option too. The ones by Lang are a little harder, the ones by Crossing come with wandering bears. I've done the Crossing blood wolves at that point with my F2P characters and as long as you keep an eye out for the bears, it's okay. After them, snowbeasts.

Agreed; even though I recommended them, there's no perfect fit (in Zoluren) between them and snowbeasts. Close. Not perfect.

> I know and it sucks. Zoluren needs a 75-90 hunting ground.

I don't see why they'd change it. It's a gentle nudge towards the simucoin shop. You can get around it, but paying does make it easier.

> Honestly, I just stop progressing my F2P accounts at that point because it's not much fun to lock maybe 1 weapon skill before I have to run to a healer.

It's been a while, but think back to when you were were a noob without any skills over 100. Trying to keep all weapons locked just wasn't something that was a big concern for most. I'd think that the true noobs aren't even going to know there's a gap. The longtime players playing around with F2P or the returning players may, but they also have the experience to work around it if they're so inclined.

And if you aren't using the simucoins, you won't have a problem locking LOTS of skills. They just drain that slowly by this level. If you are, then what's 2 bucks?

I've run three characters up so far, one F2P account in the 40s. It's not that bad. Just do bone wolves south of leth until early 70s and then snow beasts one at a time. You have to play it safe, but requiring attention is not a bad thing.

> That's cool if you find that fun, but I don't.

What about hunting at level do you not find fun?

I can understand that, especially in store bought gear.

I wonder if it would be better to give new characters a free 30 day pass to explore haven/theren when they reach this level. Maybe an ingame announcement nudging them to the caravan outside the northeast gate and a link to the maps on elanthipedia once they get their first defense to 65ish.

> So that we understand, you want the game to be easy not challenging. We get it. Think of the props you'll get when you go from not being able to handle more than one critter to being able to dance with four. Then you can help others move through this gap and you'll be a hero. View it as a challenge that you can help others through.

Maybe a tangent, but this brings up an interesting question. Should their be hunting zones, especially new hunting zones at the higher end that mandate group hunting? Small parties of 2-3 or so.

>>What about hunting at level do you not find fun?

That's not hunting at level. That is over-hunting.


>>Constantly needing to retreat and move rooms so you don't get more than one mob in a fairly swarmy area is not fun, it's frustrating.

This.


>>I wonder if it would be better to give new characters a free 30 day pass to explore haven/theren when they reach this level. Maybe an ingame announcement nudging them to the caravan outside the northeast gate and a link to the maps on elanthipedia once they get their first defense to 65ish.

Or they could just c/p a critter from another province, rename it, and put it in Zoluren. They did it with Lava Drakes (they are Elder Dillos with new messaging and special attack). I believe that would be a much better ROI.


>>So that we understand, you want the game to be easy not challenging. We get it.

Or I'd just like it to be consistent at all ranks. Is asking for a hunting ground in a province where there is a gap in the ladder really asking for easy-mode? If that's the case then I think the hunting ladders need to be re-evaluated.


>>Think of the props you'll get when you go from not being able to handle more than one critter to being able to dance with four. Then you can help others move through this gap and you'll be a hero. View it as a challenge that you can help others through.

I'm sorry but that is not how I want to spend my time playing the game. I do not want to be the F2P champion, I'm just pointing out a problem that has been pointed out by many people on this forum and asking that it be fixed. If this is intentional then more power to Simu, I just don't agree with it though.


>>Maybe a tangent, but this brings up an interesting question. Should their be hunting zones, especially new hunting zones at the higher end that mandate group hunting? Small parties of 2-3 or so.

Yes, I would enjoy this immensely and I believe it is on Kodius's long list of things to do.

> We don't, so unless you are asserting that retreating and moving rooms repeatedly is challenging as opposed to tedious, you seem to be mistaken about the heart of the request.

To extend this, I think this has always been the case. Unless you're hard capping every creature below you, and even then, you're still going to have to mitigate 3-4 mobs in a room at once when you're just starting out in a hunting area. I see that you want a nice, casual pace, and I respect that; however, I fail to see much of a difference in mitigating 2-4 rather than 3-4.

The more I think about it, the more I shift back to thinking this is a non-issue. There are so many ways to mitigitate it, especially if you use this as a time for older players to assist with younger players. Bring back some social interaction in the game. Mitigate it for them. Bards can sanctuary/war horn. Empaths can heal/compel. Magic/weapon primes can obliterate the field of or debilitate all but one. Even a trader could throw some weapons here and there and nearly one-shot most of the spawns. Even if you don't want to hunt with them, lots of guilds can give a miriad of stats and skill buffs to help them even survive on their own for 20-30 minutes at a time. I mean, someone could even use classes to bump themselves up a few notches.

I'm of the mind that the social aspect is really what keeps people in this game. If I'm wrong, and new players just want a fun place to script, then they're not going to want to stay F2P for long. Let's not nerf that part of the game because social interaction is too hard. Let's encourage social interaction.

> It is not a non-issue. There's a gap in the Zoluren hunting ground where F2P hits a wall. Period.

I think you and I have different understanding of the word gap. When I hear gap, I think of the empath hunting ladder pre absolution. Where there was nothing they could hunt that would make the skill move. I don't think of the Zoluren hunting ladder where there's a part that they makes them engage with the game rather than typing .hunt in room 123 rather than room 101.

and bears are like the first critter you actually have to hunt mode in. no crazy hinderance and no burden. critters before that point you can go in wearing 6 different armor types with heavy burden and not get a scratch, but in bears every little bit counts, and i believe its like that for everything after that.rough gap, but can be done.

Requiring hunting with a higher level character or classes in order to advance through a range of skill is a gap plain and simple. The only reason the gap exists is because the narrowing of teaching ranges that happened with 3.l. All there needs to be is a single creature that teaches from 70-85 ranks.

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> Requiring hunting with a higher level character or classes in order to advance through a range of skill is a gap plain and simple.

I never said this was necessary. In fact, I pointed out two classes that I took through it without any help (cleric/moon mage). I am pointing out some of many ways that you can go straight to snowbeasts without any problem.

That was absolutely my experience trying to bridge the gap to snowbeasts without leaving Zoluren. One or two was fine, three would kill me very quickly.

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Thayet
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> So you were able to do it with two of the best debilitating guilds, and one of them being the most OP guild in the game. Do it with a Thief then come back and tell me how easy it was.

At that level, everything is pretty much working at minimum levels with limited spells. I challenge you to find one guild, other than traders, that would be unable to do it.


> If you like leap frogging hunting grounds then be my guest, but saying that it should be that way for everyone else who does not enjoy it isn't really your choice to make.

There are a wide variety of hunting grounds and training spectrums for a reason. You don't always have to have an absolutely safe and most optimal path at every stage. I get that this is what you want out of the game. I understand it, even if I don't share the feeling; however, I think there are better things to spend dev time on.

I count just as many saying it's not a problem. If you want to devolve this discussion into personal attacks based on biases and fallacies then you might want to look inward first.

Telling that you are mistaken about the nature of our request and objections is not a personal attack, even if it may feel like one.

You say your play experience is different. Cool. I'm very happy for you. That does not change that many of us have not experienced the same thing you have. My latest sojourn through that skill range for example was an exercise in frustration until I gave in and went to Theren. That range should not be that difficult or frustrating, and as this isn't the first time the issue has been raised, that does point to a need for something to fill in that gap.

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Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
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>>>That's extreme hyperbole.

>It's not when there are multiple people claiming the same experience.

+1 from me too. And my friends can attest; I don't know how many times I've complained on IM that "I just got to snowbeasts and have two pelts in my bundle and already have to get healed." I'm not saying my characters had exploded chests or legs torn off. But bleeding and stunned, yes.

The very fact that there is a perfect option at this range, up in Lang, means that there absolutely is an actual gap in Zoluren.

It's not a simple matter of being unable to do it. It's slower, less fun, past challenging and into stupid. It's a level of frustration that doesn't exist before or after that exact skill range.

Also--

>>> fixing rock troll AI and spawn

>The spawn should be different in the circular room to the far left.

Yes, but there's an area atmo effect where tar grabs you, I think it is, and you can end up stunlocked and then dead. Regardless, the main rockies really need to be updated.