They got too much parry for the rank range they teach in, someone fix this please, or at least look into it?
TRICKEDPONY
BADGOPHER
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
03/10/2015 07:26 AM CDT
I've never heard this complaint before, they've taught me wonderfully post 3.x. What guild and ranks?
TRICKEDPONY
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
03/10/2015 01:44 PM CDT
thief with 20 agil and 50ish weapons and a barb with 18 agil and 50ish weapons.
they dont teach as high as they used to, or so it seems.
they dont teach as high as they used to, or so it seems.
ABSOLON
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
03/10/2015 04:59 PM CDT
<<They got too much parry for the rank range they teach in, someone fix this please, or at least look into it?
<<they dont teach as high as they used to, or so it seems.
If you're having trouble hitting the sand sprites within their new 3.1 reduced rank range I would suggest a disabler, ideally a disarm but a stun or knockdown should do nearly as well. I think thieves don't have a disarming ability (which is a bit strange imo, but that's how it is) but ambush stun should work if you have it. Make sure you have khri focus up for the agility bonus, and khri strike if you have it for a weapon skill boost. Both of those will aid your accuracy. There's a few other abilities that would help your accuracy vs. them, but I don't think you'd have them available yet as a sand sprite hunter.
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<<they dont teach as high as they used to, or so it seems.
If you're having trouble hitting the sand sprites within their new 3.1 reduced rank range I would suggest a disabler, ideally a disarm but a stun or knockdown should do nearly as well. I think thieves don't have a disarming ability (which is a bit strange imo, but that's how it is) but ambush stun should work if you have it. Make sure you have khri focus up for the agility bonus, and khri strike if you have it for a weapon skill boost. Both of those will aid your accuracy. There's a few other abilities that would help your accuracy vs. them, but I don't think you'd have them available yet as a sand sprite hunter.
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ABSOLON
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
03/10/2015 05:05 PM CDT
I should add that the minimum ranks of creatures is generally the same in 3.1 as it was before, so you should still be able to hit them. The only significant rank changes were to the upper caps. They are typically around 20% lower than previous, give or take.
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TRICKEDPONY
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
03/12/2015 12:22 AM CDT
well the thief is above them now but at that range he couldnt hit them hardly at all and now the barb is in that range and even with the unbalancing roar she cant hit them
ASHAMAN1
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
03/12/2015 09:30 AM CDT
Try adding Weave do your routine, makes a mammoth difference.
Samsaren
Samsaren
TRICKEDPONY
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/01/2015 10:00 PM CDT
The point is , they teach to what 70ish? You need almost 60 in weapons to hit them. Kinda makes them a pointless critter IMO.
Used to be you could do them 45 ranks or so and they'd carry you to like 100 and i get that the max ranks has dropped but seriously they parry like they all just got out of barb school.
Used to be you could do them 45 ranks or so and they'd carry you to like 100 and i get that the max ranks has dropped but seriously they parry like they all just got out of barb school.
ABSOLON
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/01/2015 10:44 PM CDT
<<The point is , they teach to what 70ish? You need almost 60 in weapons to hit them
All creatures sub-100 ranks or so are like this now because of the reduced upper caps. After around 100 ranks things start to widen out a bit more, but even you'll need to move up the ladder far sooner than was required before. This was done on purpose so that people don't milk a creature for ranks and ranks. 10-15 ranks per critter is about all you're going to expect for any sub-100 critter now, so I don't see anything wrong or out of place with sand sprites as they are being described.
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All creatures sub-100 ranks or so are like this now because of the reduced upper caps. After around 100 ranks things start to widen out a bit more, but even you'll need to move up the ladder far sooner than was required before. This was done on purpose so that people don't milk a creature for ranks and ranks. 10-15 ranks per critter is about all you're going to expect for any sub-100 critter now, so I don't see anything wrong or out of place with sand sprites as they are being described.
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NINEVAH1
BADGOPHER
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 07:12 AM CDT
>The point is , they teach to what 70ish? You need almost 60 in weapons to hit them. Kinda makes them a pointless critter IMO.
>Used to be you could do them 45 ranks or so and they'd carry you to like 100 and i get that the max ranks has dropped but seriously they parry like they all just got out of barb school.
My thief is currently hunting them with 50s in defenses, 45 in weapons. He's not getting mauled, he's not killing a ton of them, but training weapons and defenses? Sure.
And remember, thieves have to basically trader hunt. I have access to exactly 3 khri at this level. Focus (small stat booster), darken (hiding booster only), hasten (might maybe occasionally maybe give you a -1 to an attack RT). So no barriers, no defensive boosters, no nothing. His stats are 20 in str/stam/disc, 11-13 in everything else.
Ergo I think you're overselling this just a bit.
>Used to be you could do them 45 ranks or so and they'd carry you to like 100 and i get that the max ranks has dropped but seriously they parry like they all just got out of barb school.
My thief is currently hunting them with 50s in defenses, 45 in weapons. He's not getting mauled, he's not killing a ton of them, but training weapons and defenses? Sure.
And remember, thieves have to basically trader hunt. I have access to exactly 3 khri at this level. Focus (small stat booster), darken (hiding booster only), hasten (might maybe occasionally maybe give you a -1 to an attack RT). So no barriers, no defensive boosters, no nothing. His stats are 20 in str/stam/disc, 11-13 in everything else.
Ergo I think you're overselling this just a bit.
TRICKEDPONY
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 10:46 AM CDT
Not sure if you know this but agil is your to hit modifier, as for not killing tons of them? I doubt you're killing very many at all. With the same ranks and 20+ in agility my thief was getting light hits when hitting them at all, now iirc the amount of experience gained is based on how hard you hit, and if you aren't hitting hard you aren't learning optimized.
So if we're going on opinions here instead of fact, i think you're full of malarky.
NINEVAH1
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 12:16 PM CDT
>>now iirc the amount of experience gained is based on how hard you hit, and if you aren't hitting hard you aren't learning optimized.
While it may not be the most optimized learning, you can still lock a weapon skill without even causing any significant damage.
The real problem is that critters that have weapons/shields/real armor are harder to kill, and without skill boosts it's hard to overcome the defenses of those critters while in the narrower learning ranges of 3.1. This is only a low level/specific guild problem due to availability of buffs at low levels. I don't really know what you expect to happen with sprites, but I can almost guarantee that their learning range won't be extended (they'll do all critters in the game if they do). The old hunting progressions aren't really viable anymore, and I haven't taken a single new character to sprites since a lot of the easy to kill but completely safe to hunt critter are not the best for training anymore, especially the ones that can parry.
While it may not be the most optimized learning, you can still lock a weapon skill without even causing any significant damage.
The real problem is that critters that have weapons/shields/real armor are harder to kill, and without skill boosts it's hard to overcome the defenses of those critters while in the narrower learning ranges of 3.1. This is only a low level/specific guild problem due to availability of buffs at low levels. I don't really know what you expect to happen with sprites, but I can almost guarantee that their learning range won't be extended (they'll do all critters in the game if they do). The old hunting progressions aren't really viable anymore, and I haven't taken a single new character to sprites since a lot of the easy to kill but completely safe to hunt critter are not the best for training anymore, especially the ones that can parry.
BADGOPHER
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 12:22 PM CDT
>Not sure if you know this but agil is your to hit modifier
Which is why I detailed my stat distribution, because I expected 'u is teef u is agi'.
>I doubt you're killing very many at all.
Which is why I specifically said I wasn't killing many? Good assumption, I guess.
>So if we're going on opinions here instead of fact, i think you're full of malarky.
It's good to know you're both uneducated and offensively ignorant.
Which is why I detailed my stat distribution, because I expected 'u is teef u is agi'.
>I doubt you're killing very many at all.
Which is why I specifically said I wasn't killing many? Good assumption, I guess.
>So if we're going on opinions here instead of fact, i think you're full of malarky.
It's good to know you're both uneducated and offensively ignorant.
VOLCANUS
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 12:51 PM CDT
> The real problem is that critters that have weapons/shields/real armor are harder to kill, and without skill boosts it's hard to overcome the defenses of those critters while in the narrower learning ranges of 3.1
I see this as a feature rather than a problem. It adds variety, thought, and strategy in picking the creature to train on as well as makes the fight a little more engaging.
NINEVAH1
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 01:29 PM CDT
>>I see this as a feature rather than a problem.
I don't have a problem either myself, but as in all things in DR, it's all about your point of view.
I don't have a problem either myself, but as in all things in DR, it's all about your point of view.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 01:36 PM CDT
>>I see this as a feature rather than a problem. It adds variety, thought, and strategy in picking the creature to train on as well as makes the fight a little more engaging.
I agree with what you're hoping to see happen, but similar to critters with special abilities it more often just encourages people to choose an option without those extra quirks. It's not like there's any extra reward/payout/bonus/etc to fighting a level X critter with a sword vs a level X critter without.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I agree with what you're hoping to see happen, but similar to critters with special abilities it more often just encourages people to choose an option without those extra quirks. It's not like there's any extra reward/payout/bonus/etc to fighting a level X critter with a sword vs a level X critter without.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
VOLCANUS
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 01:48 PM CDT
> I agree with what you're hoping to see happen, but similar to critters with special abilities it more often just encourages people to choose an option without those extra quirks. It's not like there's any extra reward/payout/bonus/etc to fighting a level X critter with a sword vs a level X critter without.
There kind of is. More killing because of the right abilities = more coins, boxes, and better treasure drops.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 01:52 PM CDT
>>There kind of is. More killing because of the right abilities = more coins, boxes, and better treasure drops.
Ehhhh... not really.
I'm talking about killing a level X critter with a sword vs a level X critter without a sword. I can't think of any situation where there's an advantage to fighting the former vs the latter. You're not rewarded explicitly for getting past the parry, or taking advantage of some way to disarm the critter, or using a ranged weapon to get around the parry, etc, because you'd get the same reward fighting the weaponless version of that critter.
Does a field goblin with a dagger reward you (in any way) more than a field goblin without a dagger? If not, beyond a personal interest in the challenge, why not just fight the safer critter that is easier to hit?
It's the same as any other game, really. If we were playing some world building sim and I told you "you can build a blue house in 1 hour and get paid $100 or you can build a red house in 1.5 hours and get paid $100," how many people are going to pick red houses?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Ehhhh... not really.
I'm talking about killing a level X critter with a sword vs a level X critter without a sword. I can't think of any situation where there's an advantage to fighting the former vs the latter. You're not rewarded explicitly for getting past the parry, or taking advantage of some way to disarm the critter, or using a ranged weapon to get around the parry, etc, because you'd get the same reward fighting the weaponless version of that critter.
Does a field goblin with a dagger reward you (in any way) more than a field goblin without a dagger? If not, beyond a personal interest in the challenge, why not just fight the safer critter that is easier to hit?
It's the same as any other game, really. If we were playing some world building sim and I told you "you can build a blue house in 1 hour and get paid $100 or you can build a red house in 1.5 hours and get paid $100," how many people are going to pick red houses?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 01:59 PM CDT
>>I'm talking about killing a level X critter with a sword vs a level X critter without a sword. I can't think of any situation where there's an advantage to fighting the former vs the latter.
I appreciate that there are critter's that're less popular with the masses. There are a lot of times where I prefer having a whole place to myself vs digging through rooms to find one with decent mana, no one in it already and hoping that there aren't enough people training defenses at the moment to throw the spawn out of whack.
I appreciate that there are critter's that're less popular with the masses. There are a lot of times where I prefer having a whole place to myself vs digging through rooms to find one with decent mana, no one in it already and hoping that there aren't enough people training defenses at the moment to throw the spawn out of whack.
VOLCANUS
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 02:30 PM CDT
> Ehhhh... not really.
Fair enough. I guess the question to ask if creatures without weapons or magic or something else that sets them apart should drop coins, gems, and treasure?
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 02:57 PM CDT
>>I appreciate that there are critter's that're less popular with the masses. There are a lot of times where I prefer having a whole place to myself vs digging through rooms to find one with decent mana, no one in it already and hoping that there aren't enough people training defenses at the moment to throw the spawn out of whack.
Nothing wrong with picking less popular options for whatever reason. With the character I play now, I tried to make a conscious effort to fight humanoids all the way through, playable races preferred (sadly this stopped being all that viable past TC thugs). Hell, my preferred missile weapon in 2.0 was sling. So I totally understand why people like a challenge at times.
>>Fair enough. I guess the question to ask if creatures without weapons or magic or something else that sets them apart should drop coins, gems, and treasure?
Not factoring in whatever coding nightmares this might fuel, I'm of the mindset that maybe an exp modifier would be nice. While I'd love to see a loot modifier, similar to how [I think] additional box traps/locks increase box value, but I don't know if that would be a bigger descent into economic imbalance in the game ("Instead of sitting in daggerless goblins casting my AoE all day, I now sit in daggered goblins for more prizes since them being able to parry doesn't matter all that much!").
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Nothing wrong with picking less popular options for whatever reason. With the character I play now, I tried to make a conscious effort to fight humanoids all the way through, playable races preferred (sadly this stopped being all that viable past TC thugs). Hell, my preferred missile weapon in 2.0 was sling. So I totally understand why people like a challenge at times.
>>Fair enough. I guess the question to ask if creatures without weapons or magic or something else that sets them apart should drop coins, gems, and treasure?
Not factoring in whatever coding nightmares this might fuel, I'm of the mindset that maybe an exp modifier would be nice. While I'd love to see a loot modifier, similar to how [I think] additional box traps/locks increase box value, but I don't know if that would be a bigger descent into economic imbalance in the game ("Instead of sitting in daggerless goblins casting my AoE all day, I now sit in daggered goblins for more prizes since them being able to parry doesn't matter all that much!").
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ABSOLON
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 03:03 PM CDT
I think a problem is being invented here. Some people have abilities to deal with creatures that parry and others don't, just like some people have abilities to deal with undead and others don't. It's simply a variation in critter that doesn't need to be coded around or fixed.
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TEVESHSZAT
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 03:32 PM CDT
>>I think a problem is being invented here.
Ehhh... I'm not so sure. I don't think it's a massive issue (or even a new one), but I think everyone can agree that players trend toward fighting things that don't have extra challenges to overcome. People prefer critters without magic/special moves vs critters with magic/special moves. Same goes for flying vs not flying, armor vs unarmored, weapons vs no weapons, etc.
Because of that, it would be interesting to provide a bit more carrot to encourage people to fight mobs that are a bit more difficult compared to other mobs at their skill range.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Ehhh... I'm not so sure. I don't think it's a massive issue (or even a new one), but I think everyone can agree that players trend toward fighting things that don't have extra challenges to overcome. People prefer critters without magic/special moves vs critters with magic/special moves. Same goes for flying vs not flying, armor vs unarmored, weapons vs no weapons, etc.
Because of that, it would be interesting to provide a bit more carrot to encourage people to fight mobs that are a bit more difficult compared to other mobs at their skill range.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ASHBOMB
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 04:39 PM CDT
I would assume disarm abilities will prevent tinkering with experience of weapon wielding critters, unless something is added to boost xp when getting past a parry or shield.
Also, and I'm remembering from way back, I think most unarmed critters have a better evasion vs armed critters, esp with beasts and quadrupeds, to offset the variance.
"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
Also, and I'm remembering from way back, I think most unarmed critters have a better evasion vs armed critters, esp with beasts and quadrupeds, to offset the variance.
"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
04/02/2015 07:29 PM CDT
>>I would assume disarm abilities will prevent tinkering with experience of weapon wielding critters, unless something is added to boost xp when getting past a parry or shield.
Possibly, yeah.
>>Also, and I'm remembering from way back, I think most unarmed critters have a better evasion vs armed critters, esp with beasts and quadrupeds, to offset the variance.
Also possibly the case, but when seeing that possibility in action, I don't think more evasion is anywhere as near as much of a problem as a critter that can block or parry.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Possibly, yeah.
>>Also, and I'm remembering from way back, I think most unarmed critters have a better evasion vs armed critters, esp with beasts and quadrupeds, to offset the variance.
Also possibly the case, but when seeing that possibility in action, I don't think more evasion is anywhere as near as much of a problem as a critter that can block or parry.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
AJATHAER151
Re: Sand sprites need fixed
05/19/2015 11:55 AM CDT
perfect example is Black Apes.....killing ,killing....gets a bone ....can't touch it EVER. They can out parry you ten fold your weapons.
Deadly force, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. Deadly Force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort,
Deadly force, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. Deadly Force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort,
